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Author Topic:   1977 Z28
nwz28
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posted September 09, 2003 11:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nwz28   Click Here to Email nwz28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
Rich, I like the story so far...can't wait to hear the rest!

By the way, I found that video, "The Story of Camaro" on Ebay's Half.com, brand new, for $7.99 plus shipping. I ordered one tonight. I'm sure you will too.

I Emailed some of the Literature vendors about the Press Kit (including McLellans) but have had no luck.
I look forward to your Email.

Since we're not just talking about magazine articles...the '77 Z was featured in ads for Bilstein shocks in Car & Driver 10/83 and 11/79. There was also a '77 Z in an ad for Classic Industries in the 11/2000 issue of Hemmings.

I do have that Hot Rod Camaro book (Vol. 1 No. 4). Another one to look for is America's Best Camaro (1982) Vol 1 No. 1 Published by Modern Day Periodicals,which has an article titled "Zee Right Stuff" which includes info on the '77 Z, a picture of the car and a picture of the LM-1 engine.

One more...the '77 Z was on the cover (and inside) of Consumers Guide Camaro Collectors Edition (June 1981, Volume 310) along with lots of Camaro pictures and information.

I think that's it.
-Nick

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rich m
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posted September 10, 2003 12:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rich m   Click Here to Email rich m     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
I didn't take you as being rude, but geeez, you're taking all of the fun out of this !!!
Here's the bottom line. Chevrolet advertised that they "wouldn't build many", but they never stated a production limit. And the final figure we've all seen wasn't a nice round even number, like 15,000. I believe it was something like 14.437 ?

Well, they decided that they had exceeded their limit, and that was by 18 units, all of which had been specially ordered by customers (not for dealer stock). Those 18 cars were completed units, ready for shipment, and with full VIN's. So what became of those cars? The orders were cancelled, any monies were either refunded or applied towards a 1978 Z, and the 18 cars were ..... scrapped. Crushed.

I know this, because one of those 18 was mine. I had ordered the car, and it was due for delivery while I'd be home on leave getting married. When I got back, we borrowed my buddy's '62 Galaxie 406 tri-carb (!!!) and headed out to Houston, without even calling ahead, to pick up my car.

What I got instead was a nervous sales manager who had a letter from Chevrolet to them, explaining what I just told you, which he showed me. He even showed me the print-out that showed the car was completed, and even had the VIN of my car on it (wish I had the foresight to write it down, because I asked the salesman to order it with the Corvette L82 350 engine code, and see if the factory built it. The VIN would have shown me if my car would have been one of a kind!)

I was crushed (no pun intended), man, I really wanted that car BAD!!! I was shown photo's of the '78 car, and told there would be no set limit on their production. I had no interest, and took my deposit back. I still have the letter that the dealership was about to mail to me, telling me this (they wouldn't give me a copy of Chevy's letter to them). Still have my copy of the original order form, too!

A post-script on this: A few years later, I learned about decoding cowl tags, and ID'ng production dates. I'd stop and talk to every '77 Z28 owner I ran into, and look at the cowl tags. My car was built the third week of June, as I remember being told back then, in Van Nuys. And I have seen cowl tags myself on cars from this area back in the mid-80's, that showed build dates in Norwood up into the third week of July. So while they crushed cars because they felt they exceeded production limits by 18 in Van Nuys, they kept building Z's for a whole month later in Norwood!!! And in the end, they ended up with some un-even funky production figure anyway!

That's the story of the "missing 18" '77 Zs, and if anyone has a source at Chevrolet (Historical, archives, etc.) I'd love to hear if they know anything more about this. I did eventually get an old '77 in the mid 80s, as a winter car for a Grand National. It was brown, of course, but too far gone to be saved by the time I got it, and later was sold. The '77 Z28 is still my favorite car of all time though!

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kodamar
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posted September 10, 2003 10:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kodamar   Click Here to Email kodamar     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
I have a copy of "The Story of Camaro" on VHS. I haven't watched it in a while, but I remember the 1977 commercial with the "1978" supered over it.

I remember them showing some '70-'73 near the beginning that were fake Rally Sports.

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Dirt Reynolds
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posted September 10, 2003 11:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dirt Reynolds   Click Here to Email Dirt Reynolds     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
Interesting story, Rich. I too like the unique look of my original paint '77 Z, and get a lot of comments on the car, esp. from old guys like me in their early 40's who recall these cars from their high school years.

------------------
1977 Z/28
12.45 @ 109.66 1.89 60'
413" small-block, Vortec heads, TH400, 4:10's

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rich m
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posted September 10, 2003 12:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rich m   Click Here to Email rich m     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
Thanks for the nice comments, folks, hope you all enjoyed it. It's factual and true, and one of those rare stories that can add to the mystique of a model's history!
Dirt, went to your link and saw your car. Are you going to leave it "race ready" or restore it back to "stock apperaring?" By the way, are you the kind of guy who gets impatient and blurts out the punchline before the rest of us finish a joke??? Just teasing. But I was having fun telling my story the other way though! Hey, there's a photo that shows a strange emblem on the back of your car. Is that a dealer ID emblem?
I can remember that '77 Zs weren't all that common, and it was unusual to see one back then, though there were two on my base. (I pulled over the first one while I was on patrol! I was an MP, remember? The guy was wondering what he'd done wrong!!!)
I'd have to say that white and brown were the most common, orange and silver the least. When I started seeing '78s show up, I wished they had offered the blue and dark green colors in '77 as well. Does anyone know why they decided on just seven colors for that year? Maybe has something to do with color matches for the stripe/decal kits? I've read a lot about the developement of the '77 Z project, but not a thing on who in particular designed the graphics .... would love to see what some of the other "concepts" they came up with looked like.
Oh, the reason my car was one of the last on the asembly line is that the salesman forgot to order the console for the 4 speed. I noticed it a week later on the order form. He said they could either install it at the dealership, or the car would be recycled into the assembly line at the factory after it had been finished, but that would set delivery time back a bit (past the beginning of my 30 day leave). I opted to let the factory install it.
Also got a lot of grief because the car was being ordered for delivery in Texas, but without A/C (didn't want to give up any of the 185 ponies I already had, if I didn't get the L82!!!) and WITH a rear defroster (for those cold New England winters!). The car was also ordered with posi, AM/FM, and bumper guards.
Brown factory L82 4 speed with orange stripes .... how'd you like to run into THAT combo at a show today???

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Dirt Reynolds
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posted September 10, 2003 09:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dirt Reynolds   Click Here to Email Dirt Reynolds     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
Dirt, went to your link and saw your car. Are you going to leave it "race ready" or restore it back to "stock apperaring?"

I think it's too far gone in the street/strip direction to bring back to stock. I *have* thought about bringing it back to stock, but the car is a heap of fun the way it is currently, and I'd have to replace a number of items from the fuel system/tank, suspension, transmission (it originally came with a 4-speed), and so on. Lotta work to re-install all the factory parts, not to mention trying to track down front seats, the correct transmission, and so on.


Hey, there's a photo that shows a strange emblem on the back of your car. Is that a dealer ID emblem?

Yep. It says 'Motorcade', as in Motorcade GM, a long-running local Chevrolet dealership where the car was purchased new. I also have the original bill of sale:


19R Vinyl Trim - Black
13L Silver
13U Silver
A01 Soft Ray Tinted Glass
A51 Strato Bucket Seats
B37 Colour Keyed Floor Mats
B93 Door Edge Guards
C5Q Rear Window Defogger
D55 Console
LM1 5.7 Litre V8/4 Bbl. 350 CID Engine
M21 4 Speed Close Ratio Transmission
N33 Comfortilt Steering Wheel
N65 Stowaway Spare Tire
QRZ GR70 x 15/B S/B Radial w/Lettered
U05 Dual Horns
U63 AM Radio
U80 Rear Seat Speaker
ZJ9 Auxilliary Lighting
Z28 Camaro Z28
Z54 Interior Accent Group

Date of sale: April 29, 1977
Price: $6600.00 (Canadian)
Documentation: $ 15.00
Sales Tax: $ 462.00
Total: $7077.00

------------------
1977 Z/28
12.45 @ 109.66 1.89 60'
413" small-block, Vortec heads, TH400, 4:10's

[This message has been edited by Dirt Reynolds (edited September 10, 2003).]

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Jeff77Z28
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posted September 11, 2003 07:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jeff77Z28   Click Here to Email Jeff77Z28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
Okay, what is the first year that the Camaro outsold the Mustang?


1977

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Dirt Reynolds
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posted September 11, 2003 10:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dirt Reynolds   Click Here to Email Dirt Reynolds     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
Say, since we're talking '77 Z/28's, what exactly was the production total? The ad below says these cars were built in 'limited numbers':

Just out of curiousity, what is a '77 Z worth today in top condition?

Edit: Okay, I see on Mad Mike's '77 page the total Z/28 production was 14,349.

------------------
1977 Z/28
12.45 @ 109.66 1.89 60'
413" small-block, Vortec heads, TH400, 4:10's

[This message has been edited by Dirt Reynolds (edited September 11, 2003).]

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rich m
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posted September 12, 2003 01:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rich m   Click Here to Email rich m     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
Since you asked, I dug out some more of my old paperwork!!!! The production figure that I got directly from Chevrolet themselves in the mid 80's was 14,349 (I wasn't far off when I said 14,437!!!).

I also found some info I kept on '77 Z28s in the area around that time, 32 to be exact (geez, even then I needed to get a life!). Here's what I found:

Of the 32 cars I found, 25 were "N code", or Ohio cars, 7 were "L" or Van Nuys (no surprise, this was New England after all!). 17 were automatics, 15 were 4 speeds (now that WAS surprising, thought there'd be a higher % autos). Colors break down as:

Brown 8
Yellow 6
Red 5
Black 5
White 4
Orange 2
Silver 2

(Hmmmm..... I remember seeing a lot more white ones than any other color!)

As far as build codes, the earliest I found was 02E (02=Feb, E= 5th week ..... how does a month with only 28 days get 5 weeks? Check a calendar, it did! LOL!) and the latest was 08A. Both cars were "N" codes. I haven't seen many "L" code cars, but the few I have seen don't go past 06C !!! If any of you have seen one later than that, let me know:

rmcdermott1@cox.net

This has been fun! Take a look, it's the hottest post on the board right now! WOW!!!! Who would've thought that about the lowly '77 Z ?

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rich m
Veteran Member
posted September 12, 2003 01:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rich m   Click Here to Email rich m     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
Hey, how about '77 Z28 collectibles? Anybody have any? (I know that Johnny Lightning has done a few, I have one in brown, black, white, and yellow from them) and to the best of my knowledge, none of the model companies did a model of one (a plain '77, yes, AMT and MPC both, I believe, though I did see a 1978 Z28 back then. Any other stuff? No 1/18 diecast that I've come across yet.

[This message has been edited by rich m (edited September 12, 2003).]

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Dirt Reynolds
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posted September 12, 2003 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dirt Reynolds   Click Here to Email Dirt Reynolds     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
As far as build codes, the earliest I found was 02E (02=Feb, E= 5th week ..... how does a month with only 28 days get 5 weeks? Check a calendar, it did! LOL!) and the latest was 08A. Both cars were "N" codes. I haven't seen many "L" code cars, but the few I have seen don't go past 06C !!! If any of you have seen one later than that, let me know

Hey Rich -- just went out and looked at my cowl tag, and mine says 03E in the lower left hand side.

------------------
1977 Z/28
12.45 @ 109.66 1.89 60'
413" small-block, Vortec heads, TH400, 4:10's

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rich m
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posted September 13, 2003 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rich m   Click Here to Email rich m     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
Yeah, it's a pretty low production year, and a little known half-year model at that, so it doesn't get the attention that the '78-'81 cars get(that only adds to the special mystique of this car!). But still, it shares body styles with '75-'77, 3 very popular years in the Camaro lineage, and the years of the ever popular two-tone Rally Sports, so any manufacturer would get plenty of mileage out of offering that model in any collectible product. Heck, Johnny Lightning/Playing Mantis understod that and exploited it to their advantage, right? Wish ERTL or somebody would do a 1/18 car!

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rich m
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posted September 14, 2003 12:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rich m   Click Here to Email rich m     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
Nick, won the Super Chevy 6/77 issue you mentioned, on an E Bay "Buy it Now" auction for $5, plus I ordered the brochure with that other Z28 "Ad", The Sportiest Chevys from Chevette to Corvette, from Walter Miller for $15 (not cheap for an 8 page brochure, but he had the cheapest price!). Thanks for the heads-up on both. E mail your address to me, and I'll send those duplicates for your collection N/C, along with a copy of the Press Kit (hey, you're as big a nut for that stuff as I am, I HAVE to help you out! Besides, it didn't cost me all that much in the first place)

Has anyone else read the story behind the re-release of the '77 Z28, as described in that book I mentioned "Camaro: From Challenger to Champion"??? Excellent reading! We all owe a big thanks to all those folks who bought '75 and '76 Trans Ams, that's for sure. Without that car, the musclecar (and the ponycar, as they used to be called) fades away and Chevy sees no sales benefit to re-releasing the Z28!

Could never figure out why Chevy didn't follow the '77 T/A's lead and offer an optional motor upgrade on the Z. They did so on the 'Vette, with the L82 and L48, and while they no doubt wanted to keep the L82 exclusive to the 'Vette, they could have made the LM1 standard on the Z with the L48 an optional upgrade on the Z? 200 HP isn't 220, but it's better than 185! By the way, I've seen the '77 LM1 rated in print back then as anywhere from 170-185 HP !!!

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Dirt Reynolds
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posted September 14, 2003 06:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Dirt Reynolds   Click Here to Email Dirt Reynolds     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
Cool Fact: The '77 Z-28 had the coolest Air Cleaner Decal of any year Camaro. Wouldn't you agree?

Anyone have a pic of this air cleaner decal? Would like to have a look at it.

Hey Rich, some type of dual snorkel air cleaner with cold air tubing to the rad support would have no doubt added 10-15HP to the LM1 the way the electrically operated air flapper door on the cowl induction did for the 1980-81 Z/28. That might have been one way to up the power while staying emmissions compliant, but I guess being the first year back for the Zapper, GM made suspension tuning the priority.

------------------
1977 Z/28
12.45 @ 109.66 1.89 60'
413" small-block, Vortec heads, TH400, 4:10's

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Als78z28
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posted September 14, 2003 12:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Als78z28   Click Here to Email Als78z28     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote      
I found an auction for collectible key chains and in the picture is a 77 Z. They look pretty cool. This item is http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2432549767&category=42612

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