Maximum torque for a Super T-10

Discussion in 'Transmission & Driveline Topics' started by Adam G, Sep 15, 2005.

  1. badazz81z28

    badazz81z28 Veteran Member

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    Las Vegas, NV
    There's more to a torque capacity then the case material. Heck all new 700+ torque rating transmissions have aluminum cases. It comes down to shaft material and size, gear strength/gear cut, bearing size, oiling....it's a package to make it strong and hold up.
     
  2. Z28500

    Z28500 Member

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    I was just talking to the guy who owns D&L Transmissions - RealGearHead on EBAY
    Anyway he said the Super T-10's were way underrated and could take a lot more torque than advertised, he told me I have the strongest S T-10
    I guess I pretty much knew all that anyway because of the abuse I put my transmission through.
    I'll stick with the S T-10 since it will be rebuilt soon. When I change transmissions, I will get a Jericho 5 speed (Clutch) Expensive, but so what
    What I like is All-American!. Hate foreign.
    2 Chevrolet's and a 1972 Glastron GT-150 (Live and Let Die James Bond Boat) with a Evinrude 85-All American (Movie had a 135-illegal motor because 90hp is the maximum allowed.)

    Yup, we need to get back to American made stuff
     
  3. badazz81z28

    badazz81z28 Veteran Member

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    Las Vegas, NV
    ^^^ You have to realize these transmissions are not "under-rated"...They are rated at safe operating power levels. The 700ftlbs T56 Magnum or the 600ftlb TKO will not grenade with 701 or 601 ftlbs respectively. They are simply the safe rated capacities of the transmissions. Its not like you put xxx power to it and it will break. It doesn't happen that way and there are many factors that will cause the trans to fail. You can put a ST-10 behind a 1000+ hp car and it will be fine depending on what you do with it. I have seen people put stock T56s behind modified LS engines, with slicks at the track and got dozens of laps until they saw a failure. Putting a ST-10 behind anything that makes lots of torque (450-500+) with good tires and aggressive driving is playing with borrowed time.
     
  4. 71RSLS

    71RSLS Veteran Member

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    Prairie City, Ia
    I used to have a 650hp 388 SBC in my 72 that I drag raced with several different 4 speeds. The only trans that lived the longest was the ST-10. I destroyed many muncies, and even saginaws. I'm going to use one in my 71 and try to keep the wick down. Haha
     
  5. Z28500

    Z28500 Member

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    Jan 26, 2017
    All machinery lives on "Borrowed time" if it has moving parts.



    That borrowed time for my Super T10 has gone for over 15 years at approx 535 ft lbs and it is Under Rated at 375 ft lbs and I pushed that Super T 10 Very Very HARD
    I've seen circle track racers put more torque than that and last a long time.
    BUT
    ALL RACE CARS BREAK.



    All Super T10's are made from the same steel in the gears, 8620 I believe it is,

    but regardless if I remembered correctly, that is irreverent-They still all have the same steel in the gears and shafts. Except for the high nickel content 9310



    Just different sizes. 3.42 1st gear is the weakest one because of not just the gears, but also the input shaft size was it’s main failing point

    The strongest Super T10 of that time period was the one with the nodular iron case. That's just the way it is.



    The reason it is the strongest is because of the Nodular Iron case, Fact. How else can there be the same exact parts in each case, but the Nodular Iron case transmission is the strongest? Answer, Iron



    The gears involved I’m referring to are the stock factory gears and shafts, not Moser, but even Richmond, after they bought out Borg Warner, still use the same steel gears although they did make some design upgrades which I won’t go into because this is already too long.



    Nodular iron cases are rare. I know a guy that has some of those cases and I am thinking about getting one soon. That is unless I break down and buy a Jericho.



    NEXT-FAILURE

    One of the causes for failure is something that most people don't even realize and it isn’t gear size, case material or the way a driver speed shifts.

    It is the oil-

    Yes, a certain oil harms the transmission and another oil that is designed for it.

    The bad stuff can be found at auto part stores as 85w-90

    NAPA has one of the correct oils. Stay Lube GL-4

    It cannot say “GL-5” on it even if it has “GL-4” on the bottle.

    The sulfur additives are harmful to brass in the 4 speed.

    Actually a different oil is used for the transmission and another for the limited slip differential.

    Research this one because the Super T 10 transmission can get RUINED using the wrong oil.

    AGAIN GL-4 ONLY



    Just about every car made back in those days Underrated their engine HP and Transmissions torque for far less than what they were capable of,

    what ever wording is used is irrelevant, it is the same thing, they were all underrated.

    The big 3 (& AMC) said they were less than what they really were. One of the reasons was getting around the EPA limits.

    So they lied.

    Take the 426 Hemi rated at 425hp by Chrysler. Car owners swore that was way less than actual hp which in reality was more like 484hp 488tq- that's verified on a youtube dyno-A lot of guys said it was over 500hp on those old hemi’s



    Same with the Chevy 302,

    (302ci to keep under 305ci-Trans Am Road Racing rules) producing approx 485hp while the factory rated it at I think-290 hp

    302ci=4.00 x 4.00 x 3.00 x .7854 x 8 = 301.5936ci



    3 inch stroke

    (283 crank)



    a 327 block,

    and 650 gram 4 inch pistons from a 327,

    way, way too heavy a piston for the high rpm's so it flew apart-didn't last long-But while it did-WOW!

    But there is your borrowed time that was mentioned, but again, all relevant, all machines break.

    No such thing as one that don’t. I don’t care if it is a Muncie, a VW tranny, or a Jericho-one of the best Transmissions out there. They are all on “borrowed time” And like I said already, My borrowed time at 535 ft lbs is over 15 years. Pretty dang good I’d say and I’ve pushed it VERY HARD

    over 15 years and have had the car with the

    same Super T 10 since 1999 with less hp & tq



    Yup,

    If they told true hp, they couldn't have gotten around the EPA limitations

    Same with the Super T10--- all varied torque ratings depending on which one you got-notches on the input shaft tell Which One You Got.

    ALL Super T 10’s were Underrated and the Nodular Iron Case Super T10 is the strongest out of all the old 1970’s + era. even the 2.43's aluminum case vs. Nodular Iron. 375 tq alum vs. over 450 tq for the Nodular Iron. The Aluminum case’s weak point is at the thinnest area where the side plate bolts on near the tail housing, that is where is breaks the most because when the shaft flexes under load, it puts pressure on that area of the case!

    The Super T 10 can be understood a little by reading up on it which many do (and you should) But to truly understand the Super T-10, you can’t just read about the conflicting information on the internet. You got to get your hands dirty.

    I learned from thousands of hours in a machine shop from those who knew way more than I did.


    Best to find and expert, because there are a lot incorrect opinions online. I just finished reading about a guy on another forum that after being told what oil to use, went and bought a wrong Val 85w 90, came back and typed in what he bought!

    Wonder how many people copied him?

    Experts may be found at shops that do the trans work and who will give you advice if you buy parts from them- the best way to know you got the right answer
    Pretty sure 78 - 81 Z28's have 2.43 1st gear Super T 10
    My Super T 10 2.43 1st gear= 375 tq With the Aluminum Case = 2 notches on the input shaft
    Came stock in a 1979 Z28 w/Shark Gill Fender Vents (Of course Only/ALL Z28 2nd Gen have Fender Vents but not Shark Gill) - Tear Drop Hood Scoop, Sway Bars, Electric Windows, PS, PB, (Tossed the PS) Z28 Emblems on the steering wheel, door panels, hood, the outside of the doors and the back of the spoiler-7-Z28 Emblems in all not counting the serial number so it is actually 8. I also verified that the Super T 10 came in the car by the serial number. Incidentally, the serial number is how to confirm the true Z28 and what it came stock with
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  6. badazz81z28

    badazz81z28 Veteran Member

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    May 4, 2001
    Las Vegas, NV
    ^^ nice, but sure ok. The capacity of these transmissions is not the oil even though the lack of it can cause failure. Based on case theory, that means the all iron Saginaw 4 speeds should be the strongest of them all. It’s not just the case either....

    And...no. All these 4 speeds don’t use the same gears and shafts.

    Btw borrowed time does mean it can and will eventually fail because it’s a race part, it’s because it’s operated beyond designed capacities and it’s only a matter of time. Aka, your rolling the dice.


    I like it when folks talk big about under rated 60s muscle car engines. They were probably a little under rated, but nothing like people claim.
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  7. Z28500

    Z28500 Member

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    yes you are WRONG, they did use the same steel in the gears and shafts in super t-10's
    It also seems that you want to attack people, very well
    you don't know what you are talking about and there are no fender vents on your or that blue camero in the picture isn't a Z28

    I like it when people with Camaro's think they have Z28's
    or if it has an un-wrecked back bumper, then show it so everyonwe can see what year it is
     
    Last edited: Dec 25, 2017
  8. badazz81z28

    badazz81z28 Veteran Member

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    May 4, 2001
    Las Vegas, NV
    ^^ what are you talking about? I said nothing about metallurgy composition of the gears themselves.

    Where did the Z28 comment come from? The cam”A”ro I have is a 1970 which NONE have fender vents.
     
  9. Z28500

    Z28500 Member

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    Jan 26, 2017
    Hit a nerve huh?

    It amazes me that someone thinks they know about a transmission because they read something on the internet, (full of wrong things, just read your blog) but can’t tell the difference between gears and shafts

    You may be able to fool your teeni-bopper buddies into believing you know about them, but don’t try it on the rest of the world. I realize that your dad let you take a pic of his car and you tell your school buddies it’s yours, what grade are you in by the way, 10th, 11th?

    Here is some advice, get an after school job at a transmission shop and you may learn something. Or better yet, save your allowance and by a 4 speed
     
  10. badazz81z28

    badazz81z28 Veteran Member

    14,279
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    May 4, 2001
    Las Vegas, NV
    the fact of the matter transmission internals vary with gear size and cut, main shaft diameters, cluster gear size, bearing size etc. Lots of variables determine the strength of the box.

    My dads cars is pretty badazz huh?
     

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