How much HP would heads alone add?

Discussion in 'Engine Topic' started by Crowsville, May 24, 2013.

  1. Damon

    Damon Veteran Member

    12,937
    21
    Nov 16, 2000
    Philly area
    The cam is as long as the engine. Imagine that sticking out the front of your motor. Everything that would touch has to be removed.

    Sealing up the timing chain against the oil pan again upon reassembly is the real trick, though. If you haven't had to do that little piece of gasket ballet before, you might want to get some help from someone who has.
     
  2. Crowsville

    Crowsville Member

    87
    0
    Jan 13, 2013
    New York, New York

    No, I'm definitely doing this with my friend who does this all the time I just keep asking about whether or not I should do the cam because I don't want to feel like a mooch. If I can just do the rockers, intake, and heads rather quickly and gain a big difference in performance I would be very happy. Being that he does this so often I feel as if he's downplaying the job of changing the cam and I don't want to really tackle a two day type of project. However, if the difference with a cam is something like 100 HP and it's something that is a matter of 3-4 hours additional with him then I want to go through with it.

    If the heads, intake, rockers, put me at 250-300 HP that's all I want for now. The very next thing I would do after this job is an exhaust system.
     
  3. Crowsville

    Crowsville Member

    87
    0
    Jan 13, 2013
    New York, New York
    What I guess I really would like to know is the HP difference with the cam and the HP without it. Then the time it would take to install it and whether or not it's worth doing it at this particular moment. I've always been the type that likes to do as much possible in one shot.
     
  4. SpeedAddict02

    SpeedAddict02 Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

    4,538
    0
    Dec 31, 2002
    Wallkill, N.Y.
    The Jegs Vortec top end kit includes both heads, head gaskets, intake gaskets, head bolts & intake Bolts.
    http://www.jegs.com/i/Chevrolet+Performance/809/12558060K1/10002/-1

    It's a "Jegs" intake, probably a re-boxed edelbrock.. It is a square bore intake, though.. So if you are using a QJet carb, it wont work b/c it is a square bore intake..With a Qjet, you need a spreadbore intake. .. You can call and ask if they will substitute.. I just don't remember what carb you have.

    Adding the cam swap, figure an extra hour removing the additional part.. Alternator & brackets, P/S pump, lines & brackets, Water pump, if you have a/c the compressor and brackets, the crank pulley, balance, timing cover.. Fan shroud, radiator hoses and radiator.. Possibly front upper grille. Maybe even the hood release lever.. (can't say for sure, I've never done it in the car.. Just thinking of everything that might possibly be in the way to pull the cam straight out)

    Re-install, properly set the timing, figure another hour or so throwing everything back on.. Plus that PITA oil seal where the timing cover meets the oil pan.

    then the cam needs the 20-30 min break in time.. Then you need to dump that oil and put fresh oil and filter.

    So me, personally, I would tack on 3-5hrs for the cam install, in addition to the heads/intake.

    Don't forget the misc. stuff you'll need besides the Vortec Kit.. Couple gallons of coolant, 10qts of oil & 2 filters, Cam assembly lube, thread sealant, loctite, timing cover gasket set, water pump gaskets, T-stat housing gasket, valve cover gaskets, P/S fluid to top off what you lose.. Carb base gasket.. Distributor base gasket.. New spark plugs..
    Valve cover bolts.. New balancer bolt. ( I dont think they are suppose to be re-used, could be wrong).. If you see the balancer is shot upon removal, that's another $45-50 for a replacement..
    Hose clamps.. All the little shit will nickel n dime you to death... LOL

    As for the valve covers, you could get new ones, not too expensive from Summit or Jegs.. Don't forget the bolts. Probably not included..
    The rockers, if you want to buy new.. I found these at Jegs..
    http://www.jegs.com/i/Comp+Cams/249/1417-1/10002/-1

    $12.99/ea x 16.. $207 .. Proform has a set for $185.. http://www.jegs.com/i/Proform/778/66914/10002/-1

    I would try craigslist or junkyards.. Tell them you need the rocker arms & nuts off 96-00 chevy vortec heads..

    Also, for the cam swap, don't forget the timing gear puller and the harmonic balancer puller/installation tools..
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  5. K5JMP

    K5JMP Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

    Joe sums it up pretty well...
    If you are going to change the heads.. might as well go the full mile to unlock their potential... don't be surprised if the bottom-end eats it when you do though. sometimes added stresses = lunched bottom-end.

    all you really need to do is pull the radiator and condensor coil to get the cam out... the hood latch clears.

    yeah, I've done it in a parts store parking lot 900 miles from home, to get home after eating a solid roller...
    getting the lifters out was a bit more of a problem though...lol:screwup:
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2013
  6. Damon

    Damon Veteran Member

    12,937
    21
    Nov 16, 2000
    Philly area
    That. Exactly.
     
  7. Crowsville

    Crowsville Member

    87
    0
    Jan 13, 2013
    New York, New York
    You guys answered all of my questions. I'm going to show this to my pal helping me do the installation and we're going to take this on. Damon, I do hear you though. On paper he and everyone else is correct in saying that I might as well do the cam. With and without the cam seems like a night and day difference. However, what could very well happen is that after adding the cam to it and doing burn outs in celebration the unrebuilt motor that I am using as a daily driver can call it quits. Scary thing to bargain with.

    Thankfully I'm more than certain he's good enough to inspect it and judge whether or not I should take the chance. I'm bringing this discussion to him and from there we will put something together, but I'm glad everyone came to the consensus that vortec heads is the way to go and thank you for clearing that up SpeedAddict I'll go ahead and get the Jegs kit then. The Jegs kit actually works out perfectly since I have an edelbrock 1406. :D

    After I do the job which should be by the middle of June I'll be sure to update everyone on how things went. You can count me in on a donation to these forums you guys really don't know how much of a help you've been. Thank you!
     
  8. SpeedAddict02

    SpeedAddict02 Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

    4,538
    0
    Dec 31, 2002
    Wallkill, N.Y.
    Good luck. Ask your buddy to do a compression and leakdown test on the motor before you buy anything. Then you'll have a good indication of the condition of the bottom end and if you should even move forward with the upgrades.
     
  9. hutchenc

    hutchenc Veteran Member

    337
    0
    Aug 21, 2007
    Wyoming/Colorado
    ^This is a good suggestion^ I'd ask your friend to do that before you buy anything. There's no sense in putting a whole new top end on a motor that needs new rings to maintain compression.
     
  10. rockheadrocks

    rockheadrocks Veteran Member

    I really see no reason to go as far as swapping the whole top end. We're skipping a few basic steps people. If you're planning on incremental upgrades, the order should ALWAYS be:
    1. free flowing 2.5" mandrel bent dual exhaust and mufflers
    2. exhaust headers

    (Some people will stop here, having been surprised at the difference in performance.)

    3. aftermarket dual plane intake manifold (with the factory cam, I would recommend the old standby Edelbrock 2101 Performer or generic Summit/Jeg's equivalent, or step up to the 7101 Performer RPM type if a cam/head swap is in your future)
    4. cam swap... you can do the cam now, and swap the heads later. Something along the lines of the Comp Cams 268H will wake up the engine quite a bit.
    5. cylinder heads. This part gets dicey, as some people will tell you to buy nothing less than AFR 210s or some such thing, while others will fly the Vortec head banner until the day they die. Car Craft magazine recently did a head to head shootout of budget aftermarket heads and found that even the Jeg's house brand heads do quite well at a much lower price.

    If you do these steps in order, you will still get to enjoy your car, as it's not usually apart for more than a weekend or so at a time. You will also get to find out first hand what each modification does for the feel of the car. By the time you get past step 5, you are ready to tackle the bottom end of the engine if need be, as you are very familiar with how it's all put together.

    Just my 2 cents.
     

Share This Page