~~~Da Vinci Code~~~

Discussion in 'The BS Topic' started by BamaZ28, May 20, 2006.

  1. 75 Camaro

    75 Camaro Veteran Member

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    Jan 20, 2005
    New Jersey
    It just passed the #2 spot on the opening weekend box office record.The only one better than that is Star Wars episode 3!
     
  2. 3_z28camaro

    3_z28camaro Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Dec 17, 2004
    Acton, CA
    Oh, boy...

    I have been through the bible many times. So points A, B, C, DONE, DONE, and DONE. I went to a Catholic H.S. for four years I have read the New Testament, Old Testament and any other religious related books around it. I know my religious history, I did very good in those classes.;) All that just ended a year ago and I was happy to get out of there. The "Da Vinci Code" does not claim to be fact, if you wish to research the other side. Dan Brown does not claim his book is fact, just based on historical events.

    Spoilers to anyone who has not read the book or movie, do not read beyond this:

    Just because the book suggests that Jesus married Mary Magdalen and they had children is natural. Jesus was human, was he the son of God? Right, sure he was... Sure that is insulting the Christian faith as a whole but think about. Supposedly Jesus was the son of God and God had Mary give birth to his son. Sounds like Mary and Joesph got a little impatient before they got married. So they just said God came to Mary and she would have his son, so Mary would not get publicly stoned to death. Premarital intercourse was a big no-no back then. Then he could do all this great stuff. The bible skips over a good portion of his life, from birth to being 33. What do you think he did during that time? Then Mary Magdalen is a prostitute, yet Jesus was real good friends with her, yeah...

    I know that Jesus remaining "pure" and all is a big important part of Christianity, but you think he did not get that urge either. I am critical of Christianity as a whole their beliefs seem strange and illogical when you think about it. See, going to a Catholic H.S., I learned a lot. They let me in on their beliefs and I looked at it from a non-biased standpoint five years ago and it did not add up.

    To get back to the point, Dan Brown wrote a novel, fiction. What people think about it is up to them. I do not mean to call Christianity fake, just another belief that has no solid proof. It is just a belief. Religion gives people something to believe in, that's good, but some parts are left open for further investigation. Simply, you do not like it, I think it is interesting.

    I still think it is funny that most religious people are getting so upset over a work of fiction. It is just a book, now a movie too, nothing more, nothing less...:D

    This is going to S.P. real soon if this continues.:D
     
  3. ULTM8Z

    ULTM8Z Veteran Member

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    May 19, 2000
    Los Angeles
    No reason for it to be blasted over to the SP section. I think we're doing just fine.

    Well, that's great that you're familiar with the New Testament. I can respect your opinion since you know of what you're talking about.

    As far as how Jesus came into the world, that's your opinion. However, if the virgin birth did not happen, the entire Christian faith falls apart. In my opinion, you cannot believe in Biblical Christianity if you do not believe in the vigin birth. Why?

    All humans are descended from Adam, correct? Since Adam fell from grace, every one of his descendants has been born into sin. Because of that, no one, no matter how perfect a life he leads can get into heaven on his own. He's already sinful. Now, if Jesus was born of natural conception between Mary and Joseph, He would have been born into sin as well. If that were the case, He could not have taken our place on the cross and died for our sins because He Himself would have been sinful. Salvation through Jesus Christ would be a pipe dream, as it were and there'd be no chance for anyone of us to get to heaven. However, since Jesus was born of "immaculate conception" He entered the world sinless and it was His choice from there on out whether to sin or not. Since He didn't sin (though He was tempted - Hebrews 2:18) He was able to make the choice to take all of our sins upon Himself and take our place on the cross.

    Then, there's the issue of His kingship. Jesus came the first time as a sacrificial lamb. He's going to return and take His place as King. Mary and Joseph were both descended from the line of David, who was descended from the line of Judah. Judah, one of the twelve sons of Jacob, was blessed by God such that every king of Israel would be from his line. Problem is, partway down the line, a king by the name of Jeconiah became so rebellious and disobedient that God cut his claim to the throne off- none of Jeconiah's children would sit on the throne (Jeremiah 22). An even bigger problem is that Joseph, Jesus' adopted father, descended from Jeconiah (Matthew 1, the geneaologies). In a nutshell, if Joseph conceived Jesus with Mary, there's no way that Jesus could take the throne as is promised in the book of Revelation because he would have been the natural child of a descendant of Jeconiah and prohibited by decree by God to be king! However, since Mary was also a descendant of David and not Jeconiah, He received his birthright to the throne through her. The only other option is that Mary had an adulterous relationship, with someone else or was raped, etc, and Joseph adopted this bastard child through the goodness of his heart. But that's neither here nor there, because it still leaves us with a faith that's self contradictory.

    So as you can see, if the virgin birth did not occur, then you can simply take the New Testament and throw it out the window. Christianity then, is a complete waste of time. Now, I'm sure a lot of people have already come to that conclusion. The virgin birth is an article of faith to be sure, but one that HAS to be accepted for the rest of the Bible to hold together.

    As far as what Jesus was doing from age ~5 to ~30, the Bible is essentially silent on that. But I would hesitate to "fill in the blanks" with baseless conjecture. None-the-less, we can potentially extrapolate from other parts of the New Testament. The Bible records that a young Jesus spent time in the temple discussing theology with some of the very well learned Rabbis (Luke 2). Also we know that in later chapters of the gospels, He was called Rabbi himself as an adult (Matthew John 1:38, 1:49, 3:2) (even by another Rabbi, Nicodemus, which is saying something!) and was also reading from the Torah and teaching in the synagogues (Luke 4). We also know that Joseph was a carpenter. From this, I would be inclined to think that Jesus spent those years working with Joseph learning carpentry as well as studying (although He already knew everything) in Rabbinical school to become a Rabbi.

    Lastly, I'm surprised that someone so familiar with the New Testament is calling Mary Magdelene a prostitute. I'm assuming you're refering to the adulterous woman in John 8? If not, please let me know which one because I guess I missed it. The woman in John 8 is unnamed. Mary Magdelene on the other hand is named in Luke 8, as a woman who was possessed by seven demons, and was healed by Jesus. That was the first encounter, after which she became essentially a disciple of His. No where in the Bible or in any other texts does it say that Jesus was married to Mary Magdelene. So the assumption is baseless from a historical evidence perspective.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2006
  4. Aceshigh

    Aceshigh Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Apr 9, 2001
    Boondocks
    Thanks for the warning....I stopped.
    Up until this point though, I personally knew this uproar would happen with people baggin and freakin because of this. You start contesting ANY religion - like the French or Swedish cartoonist making Muslim funnies for example. That caused a major upheave in the ranks of those idiot extremists. :confused:

    Why people get their panties in such a twist over religion ESPECIALLY about a movie that says it's a "fictitious story".....amazes me.
     
  5. ULTM8Z

    ULTM8Z Veteran Member

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    May 19, 2000
    Los Angeles
    Aces, to the extent that I disagree with some of the more vehement responses to this movie/book that I've seen, including boycotts and what not, I agree with you.


    From Dan Brown's website...

    http://www.danbrown.com/novels/davinci_code/faqs.html

    There seems to be some double-talk here on his part. While he claims it's fiction, he states that he believes the "Da Vinci" code as it's put forth in the book, but discovered by "fictitious" characters. In that respect, it almost seems to me like he wrote the book in this third-person format as a way to deflect criticism away from himself by saying, "Hey, it's just a novel!"

    However, I do agree with Dan in that this should prompt people to dig deeper into what they believe to reaffirm its veracity. I even find myself doing that! :D
     
  6. bmxmann

    bmxmann Veteran Member

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    Aug 11, 2004
    Fargo ND

    guess what? she wanted to see it! so i just got back from it alittle bit ago, not to bad actually, more action then i thought.
     
  7. Aceshigh

    Aceshigh Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Apr 9, 2001
    Boondocks
    As do I. ;)
    People have to remember we are taught by other people who make mistakes and often mislead. Ultimately the responsibility of knowing and questioning the "Truth" falls into our own laps. Be a blind sheep, or be a questioning leader.....it's always a choice you have. I choose to question everything to ensure my knowledge is not just handed down, but researched. :) It applies in every other facet of life.....why not the religion of your choosing?? That's my theory anyways..

    At least I can say "I did my best" on judgement day.
     
  8. grey_shirt

    grey_shirt Veteran Member

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    Apr 13, 2006
    im not going to start a battle here but look at it this way. The assumption that mary magdelene is a prostitute is a spin put into belief by clergy in order to discredit her(the real reason behind this will never be known). There are many more falseifactions on the bible, and you have to critically analize the writers of the biblical compilation of texts, and its writers, before you put any stock into it. There are prophecies that were added into the bible after the events happened.

    Im not saying the bible is by any means false, but, its not the book some would hold it to be, it was written by man and is therefore flawed as are all of mans creations. Like any book you must research the authors and thier sources to determine credibility.

    as far as mary being a virgin, you need to learn aramic, and latin, and hebrew and look at the different translations of words, youd be suprised how much is lost in translation.

    and to believe that a maried couple never had sex? highly improbable.

    the 3 decades that we dont hear from jesus is one of the biggest things that provides credibility to jesus' first miracle. How would you feel if you were told you were the son of God, and then turned water into wine, in your teens? youd need time to cope with what happened. say...about 3 decades.

    well im not going to get into this too much, for the record i think all this is BS. when you die....thats it, your worm food. The wars we are in because of religion are complete foolishnes.
     
  9. 77thor

    77thor Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Mar 22, 2002
    Milwaukee, WI USA
    I saw it over the weekend, too. I thought it was pretty good.

    Now I want to read the book.
     
  10. BamaZ28

    BamaZ28 Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Sep 16, 2002
    USA
    I'm not saying I believe 100% in the Priory, Knighs Templar, etc.; HOWEVER, I have always had issues with the validity of the Bible. Without going into a whole speel about my beliefs, I'll try to limit it. My one and biggest issue with why I am still struggling with my personal religion choice is because "God" asks us to have blind faith. Supposedly he sacrificed his one and only son........well WTF, seriously, why can't he just show him/herself (if existant)??!! If that happened, we wouldn't have to believe blindly and the world would prosper knowing for FACT that there is on omnipotent God behind it all. Blind faith........it's hard for me to accept. Therefore, I tend to give stuff like this a good amount of attention, and pondering, as it has as much credibility as Jesus does.


    On a side note, I had a friend go 3 and a half years through his Catholic priest training, (seminary)......and he quit 6 months from the end. He just told me that the Church does some really wrong things, that he didn't believe in, but he won't ever tell me..........argh.
     

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