200-R4 pressures

Discussion in 'Transmission & Driveline Topics' started by ssupercoolss, Nov 2, 2017.

  1. jthomas

    jthomas Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    At idle there will be some tension but not a lot. If you unhook the cable from the carb bracket, the cable will move back toward the firewall roughly 1/4" to 1/2". You will have to pull on it some to reattach it. It will be piano wire tight at full throttle opening.

    To check TV adjustment and proper travel:

    Hook up the TV cable to the carb bracket. Remove the transmission pan. Have a helper rotate the throttle to full open (WOT). While it is held fully open look from under the car to be sure the TV plunger is buried in the TV sleeve. If it is buried, and if you have full throttle operation, your good for the WOT position.

    But what is really important is the TV idle position. There is a great way to verify this IF the TV safety pin, spring and checkball have been removed from the transmission (these are located at the TV lever and can only be seen with pan off). Most builders remove these parts when they rebuild. If yours is stock and untouched, then it is still there and the procedure below won't work to check idle position:

    Let the throttle return to idle. With the pressure gauge connected, and choke off, start the engine. Record the pressure in park. Let the engine continue to run and disconnect the TV cable and again record the pressure. If the TV idle position is correct you will see the pressure drop only 1-3 psi when you disconnect the cable. If it doesn't drop at all, the idle adjustment is too loose and/or the TV cable travel is too long. If it rises more than 4 or 5 psi, then the cable is too tight and/or the travel is too short.

    If the pressure rises to about 150 psi as soon as you disconnect the cable, then the safety pin, spring and checkball are still in place. In that case you cannot use the above method to confirm the idle position. The pin, spring and checkball is a safety feature to protect the transmission in the event the TV cable breaks or becomes disconnected. If this is your situation the best you can do is make sure you see a pressure rise as soon as the throttle is moved and to be sure it is within the factory pressure specs. If it passes this test, take it for a ride. If shifts are short, soft and/or pressure is on the low side of specs, the cable is too loose, TV spring is worn, and/or travel is too long. This condition is dangerous and can damage clutches. Don't drive any further until corrected. If tranny shifts late or hard, TV cable is too tight. Usually pressures will be on high end or above spec but this condition is not dangerous since pressure is up. But it will be annoying to drive like that.

    One last comment. The stock CZF 200-4R was designed to work on lower horsepower 305s and 350's. If your 70 Monte Carlo is anything over what was stock in the 87 Monte Carlo, it won't last long without modifications. You probably already knew that though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2017
  2. jthomas

    jthomas Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    The Bowler lockup kit is an easy install although you have to pull the pan. You replace the stock 4th gear pressure switch with theirs, remove the third gear pressure switch and install their threaded plug, connect one wire to the 4th gear switch and run it to the case plug, install the case plug lockup module, replace the stock brake switch with theirs and hook up the wiring per their instructions.

    I added a switch on the dash to DISABLE the automatic lockup in those occasions where I want 4th gear without lockup. That works nice when you are going 40-45 miles per hour and don't want lockup due to engine lugging.
     
  3. ssupercoolss

    ssupercoolss Veteran Member

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    The Monte is a grocery grabber/highway cruiser. If i am going to use one of my cars in "anger", it will be the Camaro.

    Thanks for all the tips. I am ready for the swap on Saturday.
     
  4. ssupercoolss

    ssupercoolss Veteran Member

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    Its in. goes into gear and whatnot, so it seems to be working. check pressure and carb brackets today.
     
  5. jthomas

    jthomas Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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  6. ssupercoolss

    ssupercoolss Veteran Member

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    Brackets i got suck. lots of cutting and welding. Waiting for it to cool.
     
  7. ssupercoolss

    ssupercoolss Veteran Member

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    nothing great happening here, just weirdness. Pressures are messed up. reverse with no tv is like 180, drive is 120. Not much pressure rise with full tv.
     
  8. jthomas

    jthomas Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Run the full pressure test at idle and full TV in each gear and post up the numbers.
     
  9. ssupercoolss

    ssupercoolss Veteran Member

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    it fixed itself. gotta love that, right?. My first pressure readings were 90 psi in p,n,d with no tv. so, ok, looking at transmission rebuilds 90 psi might mean i have a rebuilt trans with higher line pressure, so 90 lbs is a good start. except when full tv pressures were not even close to what extreme, monster. etc say theirs should be. (just using that as a guide) so after test drive #1, which just didnt feel right, back on the lift and pull the pan. Theres not tons under there i understand, or think i should fool with, but i feel like im missing something with this tv cable, plunger. long story short, i think the plunger was not returning to idle. Yesterday when i had the pan off and worked the tv cable, i felt like i really had alot of slack in it, to where i really had to pull on the cable alot, before the lever would contact the plunger, and push it in. Now it seems like there is less slack between the rod and plunger, and i see 2 red rings on the plunger i dont recall seeing yesterday. i saw where someone said to set the tv to where the one red line is inside the valve body, and the other is exposed. So, pan on, fluid in, now when i start it, idle tv pressure is 60 lbs. crack the throttle, pressure jumps up. wasnt doing that before. another long story short, it now works perfectly. shifts right when is should, pressure rises with increase in throttle. So my pressures are pretty much in line with the chart you gave me for a stock trans, just a touch on the low side under full tv. The car just rolls down the highway in 4th gear. its pretty awesome.

    so, moving onto locking up the converter. i have 3 wires in the pan. one wire goes from the plug to a pressure switch. i assume this is what told the ecm that the trans was in 4th by grounding when it sees pressure. the other 2 wires go from the plug to the TCC solenoid. Can i apply 12v+ to the TCC solenoid, jump the wires at the plug so the wire from the pressure switch grounds the solenoid?
     
  10. jthomas

    jthomas Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Dec 5, 2007
    NorthCentral PA
    Regarding the plunger, you can't go by how many rings show. Every setup is different based on carb bracket, TV spring inside valve body and its level of wear, etc. When you disconnect the cable at idle, does the pressure increase? If it only changes a little bit, then adjust based on the method I provided earlier. If it jumps to 150 or so, then the safety feature is in tact and there isn't much you can do other than make sure the pressures are in spec with the CZ settings in that document I attached and make sure the plunger is buried at full throttle opening (looking with pan off).

    Since your tranny was used it is likely gummed up a bit so so disconnecting the TV cable and giving several sharp pulls several times will help clear it a bit and driving it may help loosen it up more. Personally I would have pulled the valve body apart and gave everything a thorough cleaning, but since is a daily driver you may get lucky just running it to temp several times. The lever may not have touched the plunger for one or two reasons: valves and spring gummed up and/or spring worn and length shortened.

    Regarding the pressure switch and solenoid, don't splice in a common ground. Here's a good read. The connections depend on whether your pressure swith uses one or two poles: http://www.chevelles.com/forums/33-...k-up-wiring-basics.html#/topics/388275?page=2
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017

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