1970 Lug Nuts

Discussion in 'Original Drivetrain Topic' started by citrusz, May 11, 2016.

  1. flowjoe

    flowjoe Moderator Staff Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    FWIW, those SS wheels were only available on Camaros until early January of 69...only around 300-Ish units sold. Many people put those rims on their cars but I'd guess only a handful of the '69 Camaro crowd would be willing to spring for 100% correct lug nuts. I'd guess that Chevelle guys would be a better market. I think some Novas got that same rim...don't know about the Nova with Rally II style rim as Dave pointed out. I know Pontiac uses the lug nut in question but not sure about cactus application. I'm more familiar with the ubiquitous Rallye II rim which uses a different lug nut altogether (which is already available in repop)
     
  2. 70lt1z28

    70lt1z28 Veteran Member Gold Member

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    I knew they were a late '69 addition, just didn't know THAT late. Kind of like the LM1's. That's what I keep bumping in to, folks want them to be right but its so hard to tell how many want to pay for them.
     
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  3. CamarosRus

    CamarosRus Veteran Member

    You can look at the pics captioned by M21RSZ28 (post on page5).

    I doubt there is no way of knowing/proving that the 1st design
    stainless jacket nut was used on the Rally Wheels and Z28 and ???
    but cmon use some common sense...you think GM had more
    than ONE decorative nut....

    Anyway they were almost all destroyed by tire store air guns, etc
    and owners either bought new 2nd design nuts or aftermarket
    solid Chrome nuts...

    This is why they are so rare too find and all of us enthusiasts (maybe 50 people .........willing to pay a "reasonable price for a set of 20)

    CONCLUSION ......No One No Company No Person Nobody mfgs an accurate reproduction of the 1st design 69-74 1st design Tall Crown Lug Not
     
  4. ronzz572

    ronzz572 Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Oldsmobile uses this lug nut also. I recently worked on a 29k mile 69 hurst olds. And it had complete set original correct lug nuts on it. I feel if reproduced. They cannot be more than $60 to $80 for a good quality reproduction wheel nut. Most people are not going to pay up any more $$$ for them. Myself I would pay up more for them. The market I feel is big enough for them. But they need to affordable to the average enthusiast to buy sets of them if they exceed a $60 to $80 price.
     
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  5. CamarosRus

    CamarosRus Veteran Member

    Agreed Ron.......I'd probably pay $100 for correct repro set...........but as has been written before how much will all the tooling
    cost and what company is going to make less than a 50,000 or 100,000 pc run......... Nobody currently is going to invest
    this kind $$$$$$$$$$
     
  6. 70lt1z28

    70lt1z28 Veteran Member Gold Member

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    I think for a small run, hand-transfer type of tooling the cost would be less than 10k. Depends on the development time. I have ready access to the presses etc to run the dies once built. The techniques to make the tooling for a small run like this is much different than the original tooling that was designed to run a million parts. More labor per part, but the forming processes are the same so the resulting part is the same.
    Still, for only <100.00 per set it isn't really worth it. 100 sets just to break even on the tooling. More like 200 sets to break even overall including materials and time. That's at 100 per set, which sounds by the comments to be iffy.
    Just one of those parts I guess that isn't deemed as necessary for a medium-top line restoration since there is already an alternative in the marketplace.
     
  7. CamarosRus

    CamarosRus Veteran Member

    Dave, I wonder if the TransAms used that 1st design lug nut. Do the Chevelle guts care. How about
    the Nova "Nutz" ....Only ONE Camaro show in the USA even looks for these nuts (think I started it??)
    Interesting to read your tooling comments.......
    Jack Seymour has to make all new tooling for the exhaust system hangars he reproduced......
    He has sold ALOT of them and continues to do so thru GARDNER and Joey Gray, etc

    70 Camaro Muffler Hangar REPOP.2.jpg Repop1 Muffler Hangar 70+ Camaro.jpg Seymour.Tailhangar.C.jpg
     
  8. 70lt1z28

    70lt1z28 Veteran Member Gold Member

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    I don't want to diminish Jack's work on the hangers, because it is very good and I even bought a set, but it is some ways easier to do than the lug nuts. The hangers are just bent metal with some darts (the triangle shaped corner reinforcements). No risk of wrinkles or tears.

    The lug nut covers are an example of when metal needs to be "stretched" or drawn into a shape. This requires among other things binder ring (spring loaded plate that keeps the metal from wrinkling when it is forced into the die cavity). Also, you can't hit the shape in one stamping. It will surely tear. You have to first form a gradual bubble and then hit it at least two more times to finish the cone and then strike the nut flats. Finally you need to hand load the machine nut and do a base crimp. It very well could take one or more operations to develop the shape. Each of these would then be another die. The key is to move the metal without tearing or wrinkles. Then you need to make a blank die to cut the initial metal disk that will be formed in the other dies.

    I'm sure the LS-6 Chevelle guys will buy them, so there is a few more sales.
     

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  9. flowjoe

    flowjoe Moderator Staff Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    I hope I didn't give the impression that it started in January. The option is cancelled in January. So only available for the first few months of the run.

    What I was driving at is that it's a limited market even with all the various makes and models who could use them and the present owners who would be willing. But I know you already know that:).

    It's a huge cost to set something like this up and I don't think it reasonable to expect much of a return on investment...it'd have to be a labor of love:D.

    As always, people in the community clamber repeatedly for these things but want them at Walmart prices. I ran into the same thing redoing the Z/28 NA9 heat shield (which was a simpler process by comparison to the lug nuts).

    Given the specificity of the part, the unobtainium nature of OEM pieces, the complexity of the process, and the limited number of potential buyers a price tag in the $150 would seem more likely. I mean, what would a good set of solid lug nuts like McGards run? $25 per wheel? Seems that a $50 bump for technically correct would be well worth it. I'm not sure my resto warrants this level of accuracy but I'll commit to one set (only one Z;)) up to $200 (hopefully lower) just to help push the project along.
     
  10. l16pilot

    l16pilot Veteran Member Lifetime Gold Member

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    Agreed 100%...and I would like to add that deep drawn stainless adds an extra level of complexity over something like mild steel.
     

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