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Old 12-26-2004, 08:04:00 PM   #1
Drg racr
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302 vs 350 Dilema

I'm trying to decide which motor to use next year.
I have in this corner a 67 Chevy 302 (destroked 327), 11.0/1 TRW pistons, Crower .507 cam, forged crank (from 63 283), the short block is all assembled, no heads or top end.
In the other corner I have a 79 350, complete running motor that needs rebuilding. I ran this motor in the car and got a 13.50 @103mph with the rings shot.

My question; do I finish the 302 and hope the small cubes push the car into the 11's or redo the 350 and see what it does?
It's going into the 67 Camaro with a T-350, 4.10 gear, 3500 stall conv, 3210lbs with driver.
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Old 12-26-2004, 09:12:00 PM   #2
1981coupe400ci
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i'd go with the 302.. theres a word why you should use the 302 in the 67 camaro i just cant think of what that word is...
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Old 12-26-2004, 09:20:00 PM   #3
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Quote:
<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by 1981coupe400ci:
i'd go with the 302.. theres a word why you should use the 302 in the 67 camaro i just cant think of what that word is...</font>


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Old 12-26-2004, 09:26:00 PM   #4
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302. Its just the right thing to do.

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Old 12-26-2004, 09:58:00 PM   #5
engine
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from what I've read (no first hand experience) is that the 302 is a high winder, where in a street car, ou have to rev that sucker pretty high all the time to get a lot out of it. It was originally offered int he Z28 cars for the SCCA races, and all those engines were revved to the moon all the time. Also, in order to get the full effect of the 302, you most definately want a manual trasmission. If tis is for your 76 with 4-speed, it might as well be a blast to drive...just not sure about puttin' around town.

[This message has been edited by engine (edited December 26, 2004).]
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Old 12-26-2004, 09:58:00 PM   #6
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Is the 302 original for your car? If so leave it in the corner prevent hole in block!
If its not original and you just want as much power as possible still leave the 302 in the corner
but if you just want a 302 under the hood stick it in!
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Old 12-26-2004, 10:18:00 PM   #7
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Ive built them all, and all the short stroke motors need to compete is more gear and better valve springs because they do have to be spun high! But a 302 (or 327) above 7500 rpm screamin towards 8 or 9, is a sound like no other. It will make you yawn at any long stroke engine below 7000. Someone will jump in and praise the 350 (as they always do), no substitute for cubic inches yadda yadda yadda. BS. RPM is a hell of a substitue for cubes. Just dont build the 302 and shift it at anything below 7500 rpm, then you will wish you had built the 350. Grow balls of steel and let it rev, and you will never build another 350. Not to mention the perma grin you will have the first time you see that needle fly by 8000 rpm and not slowing down. You always wonder, "damn, how high will that thing actually go"?
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Old 12-27-2004, 01:08:00 AM   #8
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I'm a big fan of the short stroke/big bore engines. I love the little 302's and 327's

With that said. If it's a street car, pass the 302 up and go with a 350 or 383

If it's a weekend toy or race car where you aint worried at fuel mileage, parts lift span, etc go 302 and gear the hell out of it. 4.10's aint gonna cut it with a strong 302 though. I would go with 4.56's at least.

I know the whole "no substitute for cubic inches "

But look at the math of an engine. HP = TQ X RPM/5252 useing that you'll see there's 2 ways of building power.
1) increse the Torque of the engine (longer stroke helps with that)
2) increse the RPM where peak is hit.

If done right (gears, stall, parts) I pick #2 for a weekend toy/race car

Strong bottom end, strong rods, forged pistons, strong valve springs. And let her rev. Built for peak at around 7000-8000, and shift alittle above that. Use a gear combo that will have you crossing the traps as close to peak as you can (7000-8000 rpm)

Have a few sets of valve springs on hand. That will be your most borke parts. Took up that high they stress faster, and become weaker
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Old 12-27-2004, 03:04:00 AM   #9
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Quote:
<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Drg racr:
I'm trying to decide which motor to use next year.
I have in this corner a 67 Chevy 302 (destroked 327), 11.0/1 TRW pistons, Crower .507 cam, forged crank (from 63 283), the short block is all assembled, no heads or top end.
In the other corner I have a 79 350, complete running motor that needs rebuilding. I ran this motor in the car and got a 13.50 @103mph with the rings shot.

My question; do I finish the 302 and hope the small cubes push the car into the 11's or redo the 350 and see what it does?
It's going into the 67 Camaro with a T-350, 4.10 gear, 3500 stall conv, 3210lbs with driver.
</font>


You've got the wrong gearing and definately insufficient stall to work with the 302 if 11's are truly your goal. Sell the 302 to someone else and use the cash to build the 350. Stroking it to a 383 would be better, and building a 400 would be better yet. (this is all in reference to working with your current drivetrain components)

An example, I built 2 identical engines, had to start with the 327 because it was a true high revving race engine blah blah blah..youth. 4000+ stall, 26" slicks, still needed 4.88's to go anywhere and get out of the 13 sec bracket. Best ET 12.7 @ 110, 8000 max RPM.
Years later built a 408 using same heads, same cam, less compression, same intake, headers, stall (hit 5000 with the big engine) same slicks, 3.42 gears. With no tuning the first night out it hit 12.1's and by mid season I squeeked into the 11's. With changes to the car, camming, etc. this same 408 small block has run 11.3's locally and a best of 10.99 at sea level. I will never build another small cube engine. Sure it was fun to rev it to 8000, but the 408 see's 6500 TOPS, so you can imagine how much longer the 408 will live between servicing.

With the driveline components you currently have, build for torque, not horsepower. You'll be quicker.

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Old 12-27-2004, 07:21:00 AM   #10
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My definition of RPM is Ruins Peoples Motors, and Iíll bet you that youíll not find any experienced engineer or engine builder who will dispute this notion.

For the rest of the story...

http://www.theoldone.com/archive/wor...g1whatishp.htm
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Old 12-27-2004, 08:22:00 AM   #11
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ditto, and ditto
Look there is no denying the sound of a sbc at full song is sweet sweet music. But go to the track and see who's running 11's, at what weight, with what investiment in the motor,,, and I think you'll have your answer. I will always have a soft spot in my heart for the 302, but I would only buld one for one of two reasons
1 a DZ resto car
2. if I had a chassis that weighed in around 2000 pounds, and the $'s for Lenco so I could keep the motor spinning up around it's peak
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Old 12-27-2004, 09:25:00 AM   #12
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My combo is a 350 turns 5,600 and i feel confident i'll run some 11's, and its still street freindly
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Old 12-27-2004, 10:14:00 AM   #13
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Drop in the 350 and put 302 badges on the fenders. Unless I was going to build a concourse restoration (or a clone) I would always choose more cubes over less cubes. So much easier to go fast with more cubes.
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Old 12-27-2004, 02:30:00 PM   #14
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The 302 is not the original motor for the car. My 67 originally had a 6-cylinder! The car does not see street duty at all anymore, but it does have plates so I can compete in the street tire class.
As for the engines, My budget is low, so one will have to go. Thanks for the tips, and see you at the track!
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Old 12-27-2004, 08:15:00 PM   #15
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found the word..

nostalgic or nostalgia-A bittersweet longing for things, persons, or situations of the past.

thats why a 302 belongs in that car
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