Door adjustment/on suspension or off?

TX79Z28 · 03-13-2012, 01:25:57 PM

I have read all the threads that discuss the front clip (fenders/hood etc) should not be fitted while the body is off the ground, but rather when the weight is on the suspension. That makes sense, and I can see how it could change after the body is lowered onto the suspension.

My question is regarding the doors. Can they be fitted and adjusted to the body shell while it's still off the ground without any major issues of the fit changing once the car is set on the suspension?

Rene Melten · 03-13-2012, 02:24:51 PM

On the ground would be my suggestion. My '75 doors couldn't open jacked up because of misalignment from flexing. On the other hand with welded in frame rail connectors my '73 has no flex but even then I've adjusted the doors at rest on the suspension. My .02 cents.

TX79Z28 · 03-13-2012, 02:27:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rene Melten

On the ground would be my suggestion. My '75 doors couldn't open jacked up because of misalignment from flexing. On the other hand with welded in frame rail connectors my '73 has no flex but even then I've adjusted the doors at rest on the suspension. My .02 cents.

Right now, the car sits on tire skates on the frame rails (rear) and on the support bracing (front). So, I guess technically, the body is probably flexing a bit.

Twisted_Metal · 03-13-2012, 02:28:22 PM

I wouldn't bolt up or adjust doors with the body suspended.

You could do it with the car lifted and all four wheels on ramps but having it supported by anything but the suspension is just begging to do it all over again.

As much of a PITA it is to adjust doors.... I would only want to do it once!

TX79Z28 · 03-13-2012, 02:39:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted_Metal

I wouldn't bolt up or adjust doors with the body suspended.

You could do it with the car lifted and all four wheels on ramps but having it supported by anything but the suspension is just begging to do it all over again.

As much of a PITA it is to adjust doors.... I would only want to do it once!

That's what I was thinking, but hoping to hear otherwise! But it does make sense to wait, they are a PITA but ALSO need 3 gorillas to help hold them up!

I was going to do all the body work on the shell, up to the block sanding, test fit the doors and get them just right (with new hinges of course). After they are adjusted, drill two pilot holes on the hinges for alignment later. Remove them, paint the back of the doors and jambs, and then re-install.

I WAS hoping to not do any painting (door jambs) with the sub frame on (that's why I wanted to paint the jambs after test-fitting the doors with the car on skates) to avoid over spray on the frame/engine. I guess I will just have to modify my plan and do a REALLY good job of masking and covering the engine/frame. I would paint the jambs now, but I don't want to take the chance of screwing it up while adjusting the doors. I figure when I put them back and I have the pilot holes, the door SHOULD align properly and as long as I use tape on the edges SHOULD NOT scratch the jambs.

daniel76309 · 03-13-2012, 04:30:18 PM

Hey Fernando,

There will be a little variation due to body flex depending on how you load and support things. However you could put the doors "where you want them" for the purposes of doing body work, make your hinge reference holes and press on, knowing that at final assembly you may need to tweak the door adjustment slightly to get back to exactly where you were. I think that realistically, you are going to need to do that anyway.

The other thing though that kind of makes it a moot point, is that, depending on how particular you are about how things fit, you probably need to fit the fenders and other stuff early on, which means you are going to have to have the subframe on anyway. For example, I ended up grinding away part of the front door edge in one area, and welded a bead in another area, to make the gaps more even, and without the fenders, would not have known that was going to be necessary.

Widowmaker01 · 03-13-2012, 04:45:22 PM

If you don't have 3 gorillas handy a engine hoist works well for hanging doors. Also, when I got done fitting my doors I used a metal scribe to mark the outline of the hinge locations. They showed up clearly thru the paint on the jambs.

Rich Schmidt · 03-13-2012, 05:16:17 PM

The factory hangs the doors and fits the trunklids to the bare shell before painting. Of course this is without the front subframe or rear axle ect installed. The car technically shouldnt flex. If it does,other then at the pont where the fenders meet the doors,you have other issues.

kustom77 · 03-13-2012, 05:23:19 PM

If you place jackstands under front suspension and under rear axle you have loaded the suspension the same as if the car was sitting on the tires. This will allow you to bolt everything up and adjust panels, putting the work at a more comfortable level.

If the subframe is removed you can place the jackstands on frame rails where the rear sub frame bolts in, and on frame rails at the rear car.

TX79Z28 · 03-13-2012, 10:42:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Widowmaker01

If you don't have 3 gorillas handy a engine hoist works well for hanging doors. Also, when I got done fitting my doors I used a metal scribe to mark the outline of the hinge locations. They showed up clearly thru the paint on the jambs.

Fresh out of gorillas! LOL! good idea! If the budget allows, I might get that door dolly that several places sell for @ $100.00 that fits on a floor jack. As far as marking, I was going to do something similar, after getting the correct fit, drill two pilot holes per hinge to line things up where they should be.

TX79Z28 · 03-13-2012, 10:44:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kustom77

If you place jackstands under front suspension and under rear axle you have loaded the suspension the same as if the car was sitting on the tires. This will allow you to bolt everything up and adjust panels, putting the work at a more comfortable level.

If the subframe is removed you can place the jackstands on frame rails where the rear sub frame bolts in, and on frame rails at the rear car.

That's basically the way the shell is sitting right now. It's supported at the brace right where the rear sub-frame bolts up, and two more at the rear rails. The sub-frame is off, as is the rear end

TX79Z28 · 03-13-2012, 10:46:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Schmidt

The factory hangs the doors and fits the trunklids to the bare shell before painting. Of course this is without the front subframe or rear axle ect installed. The car technically shouldnt flex. If it does,other then at the pont where the fenders meet the doors,you have other issues.

Very true, didn't think about that. Its solidly supported now, it's not a t-top car, and it's not compromised structure-wise. So, you are correct, IF it does flex...I have major issues! MORE than right now!

Twisted_Metal · 03-14-2012, 12:51:32 AM

I've had this gorilla since I needed to remove my steering wheel.....

I'll send him your way to help with those doors!!!!

Now that I've heard more about the build status.....

You can probably get the doors adjusted at least as close as Fisher Body did originally.
I hope you can do even better!

Right now... (and as they were built), There's not much stress on the shell to distort anything.
The doors should line up great!
(Especially if it's a fit for body lines without concern for additional glass weight or weatherstripping fit.)

Once you complete the car.... There will be more weight on/in the shell structure and the doors.

A drivetrain will be leveraging the subframe downward and the front frame mount areas will have much more stress applied to them than they do with an empty shell.

You would be introducing the same margin of error Fisher body did... 30+ years ago.
They didn't suck but you can do better with some final adjustments.