ProTouring Fbody - Race inspire suspension

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Old 01-12-2012, 10:41:46 PM   #16
david.carlton@s
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I have SFCs, but I'm still on the fence about the G braces. I might try them just for fun; they look cool, but I'm not convinced they help that much, especially since they are bolt in. I'm wondering if they just translate a bunch of vibration and noise to your firewall.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:27:55 PM   #17
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I'm not qualified to disagree with the Pozzi's on suspension improvements.
They would be the proverbial experts on 2nd gen suspension racing upgrades.

It's just my opinion that most people don't drive their cars hard enough to realize the full potential like they do.
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Old 01-13-2012, 12:45:56 AM   #18
david.carlton@s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceshigh
I'm not qualified to disagree with the Pozzi's on suspension improvements.
They would be the proverbial experts on 2nd gen suspension racing upgrades.

It's just my opinion that most people don't drive their cars hard enough to realize the full potential like they do.

Yea I know. I'm the first to respect experience but I'm not convinced on these items. I asked Mary a year ago how these were evaluated and how they came up with the number of a three times increase in stiffness. Some things help a lot, some things help a little. I'll probably try them just for grins down the road if they'll fit but I really don't like the fact that they bolt to the control arms where the shims go. If these were so great, you'd think DSE and Global West would offer something similar. They don't that I'm aware of. Maybe I'll get interested enough to design something of my own.

I just noticed Orange and Mike's post. Those are strong testimonials too. Maybe a hybrid concept that doesn't bolt to the control arms location.

Last edited by david.carlton@s : 01-13-2012 at 12:54:59 AM.
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Old 01-13-2012, 07:14:14 AM   #19
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Even with SFCs added, and the frame becoming one piece, it is still basically on one plane - all below the body of the car. By adding g-braces, you connect/extend the frame to a point higher up on the body creating something more like a modern unibody. It's still far from a unibody, but it's a bit closer. My opinion at least.

Hotchkis makes a product just like PTFB's g-braces:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/HSS-20103/
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:06:57 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phbmd
Even with SFCs added, and the frame becoming one piece, it is still basically on one plane - all below the body of the car. By adding g-braces, you connect/extend the frame to a point higher up on the body creating something more like a modern unibody. It's still far from a unibody, but it's a bit closer. My opinion at least.

My semi-qualified opinion as a degreed (and gainfully employed) engineer agrees with you completely, but I would say it differently. With these braces, you are triangulating the front suspension to the unibody instead of letting it cantilever out from the unibody. That is the real gain. When you eliminate the cantilevered front suspension, you take the "spring" out of the chassis and make it more rigid. This is a change you can feel under normal driving. Performance driving really shows it.

The one suggestion I would make is to consider the adjustable g-braces from PTFB. The distance from the firewall to the control arm mounting point does fluctuate a bit on these cars. I know mine are a tad short. They still fit and function, but the fit was not perfect. One of these days, I'll remove mine and lengthen them a tiny bit. The adjustable g-braces would have cured this. There was much discussion about this when they were first catching on several years ago.

Good luck!
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:43:46 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mouse
My semi-qualified opinion as a degreed (and gainfully employed) engineer agrees with you completely, but I would say it differently. With these braces, you are triangulating the front suspension to the unibody instead of letting it cantilever out from the unibody. That is the real gain. When you eliminate the cantilevered front suspension, you take the "spring" out of the chassis and make it more rigid. This is a change you can feel under normal driving. Performance driving really shows it.

The one suggestion I would make is to consider the adjustable g-braces from PTFB. The distance from the firewall to the control arm mounting point does fluctuate a bit on these cars. I know mine are a tad short. They still fit and function, but the fit was not perfect. One of these days, I'll remove mine and lengthen them a tiny bit. The adjustable g-braces would have cured this. There was much discussion about this when they were first catching on several years ago.

Good luck!

How do you feel about the fact that they are bolted in? There's not many options for a easy to install bolt in solution but I'm not crazy about two of the three foundation locations, the one at the top of the firewall near the base of the windshield and the one that attaches to the control arm location. If I were building a car from the ground up and had the budget, I go with the DSE solution, the full frame welded in that penetrates the firewall. BTW, even with the naysaying, i'll probably try them just for kicks!

Last edited by david.carlton@s : 01-13-2012 at 01:53:20 PM.
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:00:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david.carlton@s
How do you feel about the fact that they are bolted in? There's not many options for a easy to install bolt in solution but I'm not crazy about two of the three foundation locations, the one at the top of the firewall near the base of the windshield and the one that attaches to the control arm location. If I were building a car from the ground up and had the budget, I go with the DSE solution, the full frame welded in that penetrates the firewall. BTW, even with the naysaying, i'll probably try them just for kicks!

IMHO, bolting them in is fine. I have had zero issues with the braces shifting - in my t-top car. I did use large washers on the cowl attachment point - as spacers like 67lemanster did on his install. This effectively spreads the load out over more surface area. My biggest concern is the adjustability to get them to fit "correctly".

Yeah, these are a great solution short of running a full welded cage with extensions through the firewall to the front subframe rails.
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:24:01 PM   #23
david.carlton@s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Mouse
IMHO, bolting them in is fine. I have had zero issues with the braces shifting - in my t-top car. I did use large washers on the cowl attachment point - as spacers like 67lemanster did on his install. This effectively spreads the load out over more surface area. My biggest concern is the adjustability to get them to fit "correctly".

Yeah, these are a great solution short of running a full welded cage with extensions through the firewall to the front subframe rails.

I'll take your advice on the adjustable braces. It would be interesting to remove them in a few years and see if the bolt holes are wallowed out and elongated (the hole at the top of the firewall).
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Old 01-13-2012, 02:31:04 PM   #24
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I seam-sealed and re-painted at the cowl attachment point, I recall it being like 3 layers of sheet metal.....it's relatively stout right there.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:44:59 PM   #25
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If you can swing the extra $$ get the adjustable braces. The non-adjustagble ones didn't fit very well on mine either so I upgraded to the adjustables. Another good feature on the adjustable braces is the UCA mounting point tab is a drilled hole and not a slot. A good tight fit there over the UCA mount bolt.
For the cowl panel mounts, I fabbed up small plates from 1/8" steel and placed them under the cowl panel lip to give the bolt & nuts more clamping area.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:57:42 PM   #26
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I would like to have a set for my car one day I hope
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:25:13 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aceshigh
I'm not qualified to disagree with the Pozzi's on suspension improvements.
They would be the proverbial experts on 2nd gen suspension racing upgrades.

It's just my opinion that most people don't drive their cars hard enough to realize the full potential like they do.


Sorry ACE but you're wrong. Even on the street you will notice a huge difference. Trust me . Stop blowing it out your butt and check this..LOL....

I have new subframe bushings and subframe connectors and those really didn't make a huge difference in the way the car drove. I used Hotchkiss subframe connectors. Not a big PTFB fan.

When I put the G braces on it was an instant improvement...let me tell you. NOTHING I have done to the car made as big of a difference in the way the car drove...handled..went over bumps..how much flatter and even the car cornerned. The car going straight down the road even seems to respond better to the road as far as steering and ride goes too.

Drivers side went in no problem.the pass side fought me hard. Had to cut and weld one of the ends to get it to bolt up, but no big deal. This was before the adjustable ones were offered BTW.






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Old 01-13-2012, 11:35:06 PM   #28
david.carlton@s
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Orange71
If you can swing the extra $$ get the adjustable braces. The non-adjustagble ones didn't fit very well on mine either so I upgraded to the adjustables. Another good feature on the adjustable braces is the UCA mounting point tab is a drilled hole and not a slot. A good tight fit there over the UCA mount bolt.
For the cowl panel mounts, I fabbed up small plates from 1/8" steel and placed them under the cowl panel lip to give the bolt & nuts more clamping area.

I didn't know this >> UCA mounting point tab is a drilled hole. Thought it was a slot. Sounds better now.

These have a hole instead of a slot??? You can't tell from the photo. Their other model appears to have a slot.

http://www.pro-touringf-body.com/images/Pro-G-brace.jpg

Last edited by david.carlton@s : 01-13-2012 at 11:46:43 PM.
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:58:12 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david.carlton@s
I didn't know this >> UCA mounting point tab is a drilled hole. Thought it was a slot. Sounds better now.

These have a hole instead of a slot??? You can't tell from the photo. Their other model appears to have a slot.

http://www.pro-touringf-body.com/images/Pro-G-brace.jpg
the non-adjustable is slotted to make up for the differences from car to car, the adj dont need it to be slotted.
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:21:22 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skatinjay27
the non-adjustable is slotted to make up for the differences from car to car, the adj dont need it to be slotted.

On some cars (mine included) the slot is really not enough. I need to extend the slotted plates on mine. After reading this, I may get rid of the slot all together and got with a heavy drilled plate when I eventually do this... The hole vs. the slot was new info to me, too.
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