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Old 08-18-2011, 12:00:14 AM   #1
GOLF72
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T-10 Borg Warner / Pops Out Of Gear

I just did the conversion. The tranny was supposedly newly rebuilt (sat for 6 months). I did the install conversion, etc. All good. During test drive it was popping out of 2nd gear. I adjusted the linkage and now it pops out of 4 gear but very sporatically.

My underlying questions is....do you think the tranny is bad or do I just need to keep adjusting the linkage. If just adjustment, any tricks as to how to get it perfect other than adjust, test drive, adjust, test drive, etc, etc.

Everything in the conversion is new, (clutch, PP. TOB, fork, etc).
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Old 08-18-2011, 12:09:30 AM   #2
BondoSpecial
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popping out of gear from my limited history rebuilding broken manual trans was worn or broken synchro hub locks when the trans itself was to blame...but if your linkage is not allowing a full shift that could do it too.

How are you adjusting the linkage? There should be a hole to put an allen key or piece of rod stock through to center all the gates and then you adjust the linkage.
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Old 08-18-2011, 12:18:31 AM   #3
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If you can't adjust it then just like Bondo says, synchro's, he straightened me up on this a few years back. By the way, thanx again Bondo.
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Old 08-18-2011, 12:33:47 AM   #4
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I did? ok!
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Old 08-18-2011, 04:46:12 AM   #5
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Is there a writeup on how to adjust the linkage anywhere?
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Old 08-18-2011, 08:49:37 AM   #6
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I hope it is not syncro. I wish I could find a "how to" on linkage adjustment. It is a pain because I adjust then test drive, then adjust and test drive. The car will shift perfect and then pop out for no reason.

I am not a tranny person and I hope I dont have to take to trans shop.

Bondo thanks for the insight. I will keep plaing with it and see what happens.
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Old 08-18-2011, 08:53:51 AM   #7
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Popping outta gear is probably synchros...it was on my muncie.
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:17:53 AM   #8
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I'm going back to when I ran a four speed Muncie or a BW T-10 about 40 years ago to try to remember how to adjust a shifter! LOL! Here is the link to the proceedure that is posted on the Hurst website: http://www.hurst-shifters.com/faq/13

You need a 1/4" round rod. I remember using a 1/4" drill's shank for this. New Hurst shifters came with a 1/4" piece of round stock bent into an "L". Put the shifter in neutral. Put the 1/4" rod through the slot in the bottom of the shifter housing. Adjust all the rods so that the 1/4" rod can be inserted without hitting any of the shifter arms.

This ASSUMES that:

1) the shifter isn't worn out.

2) the shifter rod bushings aren't worn out. I NEVER use steel bushings they wear out the shifter arms. I ALWAYS used the plastic ones as they are much more readily available and a lot less expensive than shifter arms.

3) here's the costly one: it assumes that the transmission's syncromesh parts are not worn. Parts: brass rings, syncro sliders, syncro piviots, and the syncro teeth on the gears. If any one of them is worn, the transmission will pop out of gear.

IF adusting the shifter doesn't fix it, then you're destineded to pull the transmission. IF you do have to pull the transmission, in order to pull the side cover the trans has to be in 2nd gear. Once you pull the cover off, post pictures of all of the gears and we may be able to tell you if they are worn out or not.
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Old 08-18-2011, 09:39:59 AM   #9
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I found the link below where the owner disassembles at BW T10 and has pictures of everything. Of note is the pictures of the gears, brass syncros, etc. that are worn out especially the reverse gear (which is rounded off because whoever drove the car didn't wait till the car and transmission were completely stopped before shifting into reverse!).

It is kind of hard to see but ALL of the syncro parts are NOT square but all are pretty much rounded = worn out junk. I would be suprised it that transmission didn't still pop out of gear even after replacing the brass syncro rings!


http://www.stingray75.nl/index.php?o...20&itemi d=27
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Old 08-18-2011, 10:10:40 AM   #10
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[quote=Cardinal
It is kind of hard to see but ALL of the syncro parts are NOT square but all are pretty much rounded = worn out junk. I would be suprised it that transmission didn't still pop out of gear even after replacing the brass syncro rings! [/QUOTE]

Precisely, this was my issue. When just the brass syncro rings were replaced it still popped out of gear, rather frustrating to say the least. I took it to a better builder who rebuilt it properly to alleviate the popping out of 2nd gear. In other words it wasn't a quick fix and the wrong rebuild kit was installed the first time.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:15:21 AM   #11
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First thing, if this is a Hurst shifter. Back out the stops so the shift levers will go completely into gear. If the tranny still pops out it's probably internal.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:17:28 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cardinal
I'm going back to when I ran a four speed Muncie or a BW T-10 about 40 years ago to try to remember how to adjust a shifter! LOL! Here is the link to the proceedure that is posted on the Hurst website: http://www.hurst-shifters.com/faq/13

You need a 1/4" round rod. I remember using a 1/4" drill's shank for this. New Hurst shifters came with a 1/4" piece of round stock bent into an "L". Put the shifter in neutral. Put the 1/4" rod through the slot in the bottom of the shifter housing. Adjust all the rods so that the 1/4" rod can be inserted without hitting any of the shifter arms.

This ASSUMES that:

1) the shifter isn't worn out.

2) the shifter rod bushings aren't worn out. I NEVER use steel bushings they wear out the shifter arms. I ALWAYS used the plastic ones as they are much more readily available and a lot less expensive than shifter arms.

3) here's the costly one: it assumes that the transmission's syncromesh parts are not worn. Parts: brass rings, syncro sliders, syncro piviots, and the syncro teeth on the gears. If any one of them is worn, the transmission will pop out of gear.

IF adusting the shifter doesn't fix it, then you're destineded to pull the transmission. IF you do have to pull the transmission, in order to pull the side cover the trans has to be in 2nd gear. Once you pull the cover off, post pictures of all of the gears and we may be able to tell you if they are worn out or not.

Excellent info Cardinal. I will work on this bad boy again next week. After being on my back for the last two weeks looking up at the floor board, I need a break. Again, great advise.
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Old 08-18-2011, 11:18:55 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom3
First thing, if this is a Hurst shifter. Back out the stops so the shift levers will go completely into gear. If the tranny still pops out it's probably internal.


Thanks Tom.... I crossing my fingers it is an adjustment.
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Old 08-18-2011, 01:57:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GOLF72
I just did the conversion. The tranny was supposedly newly rebuilt (sat for 6 months). I did the install conversion, etc. All good. During test drive it was popping out of 2nd gear. I adjusted the linkage and now it pops out of 4 gear but very sporatically.

My underlying questions is....do you think the tranny is bad or do I just need to keep adjusting the linkage. If just adjustment, any tricks as to how to get it perfect other than adjust, test drive, adjust, test drive, etc, etc.

Everything in the conversion is new, (clutch, PP. TOB, fork, etc).

I'm thinking since it worked fine in every gear except 2nd the first time then after the adjustment it is popping out of all gears then it should be a faulty adjustment. My old S-10 pickup had little nylon blocks on the shifter forks (where they fit into the groove on the synchro), every 60,000 miles I had to replace 1st gear one cause it would pop out of gear (BANG!!!!). Holding the new one up to the old one the wear was only marginal, just that little bit was all it took for it top pop out of gear. The stop bolts is a good call, the make sure nothing in the shifter and linkage is worn is an excellent call, all important checks before condemming the tranny.
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