Can you build a 350 sbc 400hp for 2 k ?

[z28rod]

We were discussing this on another thread and a member here is being told by his buddy that he can build a 400hp 350 sbc for just 2 grand and has done so many times, the new member wants to buy a new motor for his camaro. My point is that’s cutting it close for a budget and it has no warrantee.... So the question is can you build a reliable long mileage 350 sbc that will pull 400hp for 2 thousand dollars ????

ok i changed the limits.....
couple rules for doing this though are:
no comp over 11:1
no RPM over 7000
no nitrous, blower, or turbo
no detonation, so use conservative timing.

I say no way ray....

[onovakind67]

Why the rules? Do you think that a machinist would have an advantage over someone who has to pay for the work? I have a low mileage 350 roller longblock in my garage that I paid $120 for. I can easily make a 400 hp motor out of it for less than 2 grand.

[cgibsong002]

good idea for the thread. I'm the member in question by the way. My motor has just over $100,000 miles on it, but is in decent condition for the mileage.
My friend and his dad are by no means 100% professional engine builders, but have a hobby of working on chevy's and have built them for others as well, my brother included. He beats the hell out of his cars and says they hold up just fine.

I didn't believe him either at first, it seems too expensive for the parts alone. But he builds these by using many of the stock parts on the motor, reworked, buys many used parts, and then says the main thing that you need to buy new is the cam.


So lets get the engine builders in here. How long have you guys gotten your 350's to last on a partial rebuild?

[Mwilson]

Id say easy but Im wondering why only 10:1? thats well below the limits of 93octane, no need for conservative timing at that level either. the curve needs to match the rest of the combo but there wont be a need to limit total based on detonation.

[Cardinal]

couple rules for doing this though are:
no comp over 10:1couple rules for doing this though are:
no comp over 10:1
no RPM over 6000
no nitrous, blower, or turbo
no detonation, so use conservative timing.

no comp over 10:1 : this would probably be the most limiting factor. Not impossible to work around though.

no RPM over 6000: why the low rpm limit? Even a bone stock 350 (or most SBCs) can safely achieve 7000 rpms). I say raise the limit to 7000 to 7500 rpms.

no nitrous, blower, or turbo: agreed.

no detonation, so use conservative timing: total timing usually doesn't affect total hp that much so that's a non-issue.

Because you didn't say I couldn't (like the local judge that limited pistol permits from CCW to "hunting & target shooting only"), first thing I'd do is throw a 383 stroker kit into it. hypereutectic pistons with reconned rods. Northen Autoparts has a kit for around $500 to $600.

HEADS: THEE most important part to the engine after a good rotating assembly. I'd call the cylinder head manufacturers to get their best recommendations. $800 to $1000.

Cam: Isky or Crower. I'd call them, tell them what we had, and let THEM tell me what cam to put in. Because of the $2000 limit, it'd be a solid lifter mechanical cam. Cam kit $250.

I think I'd come close to 400 hp and the $2000 budget.

BUT, things that KILL a budget are the "little" parts that you don't think about: intake, headers, carburetor, fasteners (head, intake, timing chain cover, crank, cam, oil pan bolts), timing chain, frost plugs, spark plugs, spark plug wires, cap, rotor, water pump, timing chain. Gaskets (GOOD gaskets are around $100). Machine work would be a HUGE expense (cleaning the block, new cam bearings + installation of them, having the main cap alignment checked and if "off", having it align bored).

[1980RS]

Originally Posted by z28rod

We were discussing this on another thread and a member here is being told by his buddy that he can build a 400hp 350 sbc for just 2 grand and has done so many times, the new member wants to buy a new motor for his camaro. My point is that’s cutting it close for a budget and it has no warrantee.... So the question is can you build a reliable long mileage 350 sbc that will pull 400hp for 2 thousand dollars ????

couple rules for doing this though are:
no comp over 10:1
no RPM over 6000
no nitrous, blower, or turbo
no detonation, so use conservative timing.

I say no way ray....

I have well under 1K into my 350 vortec engine and that inc. all the bolt ons.

[NYH1]

Originally Posted by Mwilson

Id say easy but Im wondering why only 10:1? thats well below the limits of 93octane, no need for conservative timing at that level either. the curve needs to match the rest of the combo but there wont be a need to limit total based on detonation.

10:1 compression will work fine with aluminum heads and 93 octane. Which will most definitely raise the price to well over $2000, unless he has a set laying around. Iron heads won't like 10:1 compression with a full mechanical advance of 36* or 38* with 93 octane. A really big cam will help lower the static compression and help a little, but he'd still be on the edge of detonation all the time. And that larger cam with definitely raise the max RPM well over 6000 RPM.

You could build a 9.0:1 to 9.5:1 compression 383 using Hypereutectic Pistons with a well machined short block with a cam in the 220/228 dur. @ .050 .465"/.480 lift with a 110 or so LSA range using Vortec heads and make an honest 325/350 HP, with way more torque then a 350 will give you, well over 400 FT. LBS of torque if you can razor tune it.

Scat Stroker crank $190
Scat stroker rods $240
Hypereutectic Pistons $200 to $300 depending on which ones you go with.
A factory good condition SBC 400 harmonic balancer and flex plate unless you go internally balanced which will cost more. You'd have to look at Summit, Jegs, Competition Product ect. for accurate prices on that.
Balance rotating assembly $100 to $180 in my area.

In my opinion, there is no sense in putting brand new parts into a block that hasn't been machined correctly. It might work for a while but you're not going to get the longevity out of it like you would if the block was machined right to begin with. And for the price of entry level replacement cranks and rods being made today that don't cost much more then having you old parts turned, you be better off buying the newer, stronger parts.

Just my $.02.

[Mwilson]

Originally Posted by NYH1

10:1 compression will work fine with aluminum heads and 93 octane. . Iron heads won't like 10:1 compression with a full mechanical advance of 36* or 38* with 93 octane. .

I never really belived the aluminum/iron argument, if anything its the design of the head and most newer heads are aluminum being compared to older iron designs. I have run close to 12:1 with pump gas on iron heads & full timing for years with no problems (not reccomending it! dont jump on me ) I dont want to make it sound cheap or easy everything in the car has to match to go that high but 10.5-11.1 shouldnt be a problem. It would be better if we new the rest of the combo gear/weight/converter what parts he may already have for the engine.

[Chaindrive]

quote: "good idea for the thread. I'm the member in question by the way. My motor has just over $100,000 miles on it, but is in decent condition for the mileage."

At a dollar-per-mile so far, $2k would be a bargain!

just kidding...

[Chaindrive]

To me, the whole issue revolves around machining costs; so yes, a machinist would have a great advantage. But the parts for such a build are certainly available for under $2k if you are any good at all at wheelin' 'n dealin' and scrounging 'n swappin'.

[Mwilson]

There are some great deals at competitionproducts

[Chaindrive]

My aluminum, fully assembled with top quality parts, brand new ProComp 210cc heads cost $650 for the pair. Those and the right cam is your 400hp right there. That leaves $1350 for a flat top shortblock, used intake, and used carb. You don't need forged pistons, fancy rods, or a forged crank, but you can certainly find bargains on such things if you look.

The small stuff can add up quickly: cam, lifters, rockers, pushrods, gaskets, valve covers, oil pump, bearings, oil pan, timing set, etc. None of which are particularly expensive for a street motor, but there are just a lot of such things to buy.

Necessary machine work is always the largest variable: How good is the block and crank to begin with? Then you get to "How complete is complete?" and what do you already have? headers? distributor? water pump? motor mounts?

I think you need to get real specific on how much is "400hp motor-for-$2k" and how much is ancilliary stuff.

[ZS10]

Originally Posted by z28rod

We were discussing this on another thread and a member here is being told by his buddy that he can build a 400hp 350 sbc for just 2 grand and has done so many times

Depends on what you start out with, your standards of work, and how much stuff you have laying around to use. Theres so much room for variation, its hardly worth debating.

Start out with nothing, or a block that needs everything machined, no you can't.

Start with a low mileage roller engine that just needs a few bolt ons that you have hanging on the wall anyway, of course you can.

Start with a worn out pos engine, your only standard of work is it shouldn't have blue exhaust, and you're just going to build a grenade to flog on someone who doesn't know any better, sure you can.

[NYH1]

Originally Posted by Mwilson

I have run close to 12:1 with pump gas on iron heads & full timing for years with no problems

I'm not jumping on you, but I can't believe for one minute that someone could run close to 12.0:1 with 36* or 38* timing with iron heads (or even aluminum heads for that matter) on pump gas as in 93 octane!

I ran 10.5:1 compression on my last 406. I ran a pretty good size Crane solid cam that help bleed off some of the cylinder pressure, had a .045" quench area. Ran Dart Sportsman II heads. The car ran between 180* and 190* and I could not run my timing at 36* on Sunoco Ultra 94 octane fuel. I had to mix it with 110 octane Cam2 in order to run my timing all the way up.

I called Dart a few weeks ago. Was thinking of maybe going with better heads in a year or so. The tech I talked to said there isn't any difference between their Iron Eagle Platinum head and Pro 1 Platinum heads other then then one is iron and one is aluminum. He told me 10.0:1 could be doable with the right cam, quench area and a very effective cooling system with iron heads, but recommended staying under that, closer to 9.75:1 or so. He said the aluminum heads would let me run 11.2:1 or so before I had to start taking timing out of it. Just my $.02!

[Paul1979]

My goal is 400 hp and here's my current shopping list:

New Comp cams Xtreme Energy Retrofit cam and lifter kit $956
Used L31 Vortec heads $200-$300
New Federal mogul/sealed power rebuild kit from Summit $219
New Edelbrock RPM air-gap intake $255.95

The quote from my local machine shop for rebore w/ torqueplate, decking, block cleaning, crank machining, and cam bearing installation is $420

Using my stock Q-jet, this totals around $2150. Throw in the cost of headers and exhaust and it gets way beyond this however.