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Old 04-18-2010, 07:52:38 PM   #1
Phaedrus44
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Please tell me abou 461x heads

Hi all,

So I've been told by alot of my fellow competitors that for our Street Stock class, 461x heads are what you want....nothing else. I bought a set of bare heads from a guy who said they are 461x heads, and showed them to a friend who happens to work on a pro top fuel car and knows his stuff.

This friend says they are NOT 461x heads, they are regular 461 heads. The heads in question have the X stamped on the bottom of the water passage and nowhere else. My friend says if they were real 461x heads, the X would be stamped after the 461 on the bottom of the intake runners. I paid $500 for just the bare heads and he told me to get my money back. He told me that real 461x heads are super rare, and I probably won't even be able to find them.

Information I've found on the internets is mixed....there are two heads on ebay right now that the sellers claim are 461x even though they are just like mine with the X under the water passage.

Does anyone know for sure? I'm super confused! These heads are not even all that nice, with the side broken out of one head bolt hole and really bad seats and guides. My friend gave us a super nice set of 462 heads which he said will work better than the 76cc smogger junk I have on my race car now. Thanks!!!
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Old 04-18-2010, 08:38:16 PM   #2
flowjoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus44
Hi all,

So I've been told by alot of my fellow competitors that for our Street Stock class, 461x heads are what you want....nothing else. I bought a set of bare heads from a guy who said they are 461x heads, and showed them to a friend who happens to work on a pro top fuel car and knows his stuff.

This friend says they are NOT 461x heads, they are regular 461 heads. The heads in question have the X stamped on the bottom of the water passage and nowhere else. My friend says if they were real 461x heads, the X would be stamped after the 461 on the bottom of the intake runners. I paid $500 for just the bare heads and he told me to get my money back. He told me that real 461x heads are super rare, and I probably won't even be able to find them.

Information I've found on the internets is mixed....there are two heads on ebay right now that the sellers claim are 461x even though they are just like mine with the X under the water passage.

Does anyone know for sure? I'm super confused! These heads are not even all that nice, with the side broken out of one head bolt hole and really bad seats and guides. My friend gave us a super nice set of 462 heads which he said will work better than the 76cc smogger junk I have on my race car now. Thanks!!!

Don't know a lot about early heads but this might help:
http://www.camaros.org/forum/index.php?topic=547.0

You'd have to measure runner volume to truly know. Since 462's were the next iteration might they have larger runner volumes also? Just a thought
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Old 04-18-2010, 09:26:30 PM   #3
Musmoke
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461X head will have an actual "461x" cast in the underside.
A normal 461 head has "461" cast.
Not a huge difference between the two but they are different as cast from the factory.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:15:08 PM   #4
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Does your class allow you to use World Products S/R or S/R Torquer heads or even Dart 165cc Iron Eagle heads?

I know some tracks and/or sanctioning bodies allow certain new aftermarket heads to be used in place of older worn out 40 year old heads. The aftermarket heads are usually thinker in the crack prone areas of stock heads. They usually flow better and have better combustion chambers too.

If you have to use stock heads I really can't help you. I've heard a lot about the old "camel back" heads. I don't know what casting numbers they are. I've always' used aftermarket heads on my street cars. I like using iron heads, makes them look more original and I'm not building racecar's. I used Dart Sportsman II heads on my last build. This time I want with Summit Vortec heads which are made by Dart.

good luck, NYH1!
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:24:12 PM   #5
Phaedrus44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Musmoke
461X head will have an actual "461x" cast in the underside.
A normal 461 head has "461" cast.
Not a huge difference between the two but they are different as cast from the factory.

That's what my friend says. It says "461" on the underside with an X cast all by itself seperate from the number. Guess these aren't 461x.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:25:14 PM   #6
Phaedrus44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NYH1
Does your class allow you to use World Products S/R or S/R Torquer heads or even Dart 165cc Iron Eagle heads?

I know some tracks and/or sanctioning bodies allow certain new aftermarket heads to be used in place of older worn out 40 year old heads. The aftermarket heads are usually thinker in the crack prone areas of stock heads. They usually flow better and have better combustion chambers too.

If you have to use stock heads I really can't help you. I've heard a lot about the old "camel back" heads. I don't know what casting numbers they are. I've always' used aftermarket heads on my street cars. I like using iron heads, makes them look more original and I'm not building racecar's. I used Dart Sportsman II heads on my last build. This time I want with Summit Vortec heads which are made by Dart.

good luck, NYH1!


Unfortunately no, stock iron heads only. No angle plugs, no Vortec. It kind of sucks, cause you have to put $1500 into a 40 year old set of crack prone heads, instead of spending the same amount on some decent aftermarket heads and being done with it.
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Old 04-18-2010, 10:46:04 PM   #7
1972L
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The 461 x heads I have seen have the X cast (not stamped) on the underside of the intake runner.
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Old 04-18-2010, 11:26:42 PM   #8
NYH1
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phaedrus44
Unfortunately no, stock iron heads only. No angle plugs, no Vortec. It kind of sucks, cause you have to put $1500 into a 40 year old set of crack prone heads, instead of spending the same amount on some decent aftermarket heads and being done with it.
That sucks. Well good luck with your heads and racing!
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Old 04-19-2010, 12:03:57 AM   #9
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461X heads have the X cast in, not stamped. They always read 461X. They do not have accessory holes. They have screw in studs. They usually have 2.02 intakes, but I have see them with 1.94 intakes. They are rare. I've had maybe 4 or 5 sets...and that was in the late 70's to late 80's when they were still around. They flowed a little better than the standard Fuelie heads like the 291, 041, 461 and the like. They needed a lot of work to make them really run. A stock Vortec will put it to shame right out of the box.
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Old 04-19-2010, 02:28:33 AM   #10
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:20:28 AM   #11
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I've never seen the 461X but on the 041X heads, the "X" is part of the casting number.

I'm not sure exactly what the rules are in your class, but you might want to take a look here:

http://www.castheads.com/disguise_work.php
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:42:30 AM   #12
tom3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warped
I've never seen the 461X but on the 041X heads, the "X" is part of the casting number.

I'm not sure exactly what the rules are in your class, but you might want to take a look here:

http://www.castheads.com/disguise_work.php



That's neat. Expensive. But I'd check for a claimer deal in the race series.
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:14:07 AM   #13
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461x heads were mostly 1.94,1.5 valves with some 2.02s the X was never in the cast # under the valve covers between the rocker studs but was cast on the under side of the water jackets on the intake side on the ends of the heads they do have 170cc intake runners and were the best factory heads in the early 60s(most were cast in 63-64,65, with some 62 66 date codes, they were The head to have in stock and super stock classes and came mostly on the hp corvette 327s with and without the Rochester FI but could be found in other models with hp 327(ss chevelles ,ss impalas and are highly sought after by collectors for restorations and by street stock roundy round racers. check out the ebay listings for original un modified 461x and most are getting well over $1,000 for them compared to $200-$500 for the other (461,462,186,ect.. )camel hump hp small block heads. one last thing they will support370-400 horse power even in 1.94 valve sizes, proper porting with 2.02s(attn.to un shrouding) will support 450+ and maxed out welding by a few elite porting gurus have gotten 600+ out of these suckers and if you think i am wrong check out some of the NHRA records that still stand today with these heads
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:18:11 AM   #14
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X marks the port

Quote:
Originally Posted by djgriff
461x heads were mostly 1.94,1.5 valves with some 2.02s the X was never in the cast # under the valve covers between the rocker studs but was cast on the under side of the water jackets on the intake side on the ends of the heads they do have 170cc intake runners and were the best factory heads in the early 60s(most were cast in 63-64,65, with some 62 66 date codes, they were The head to have in stock and super stock classes and came mostly on the hp corvette 327s with and without the Rochester FI but could be found in other models with hp 327(ss chevelles ,ss impalas and are highly sought after by collectors for restorations and by street stock roundy round racers. check out the ebay listings for original un modified 461x and most are getting well over $1,000 for them compared to $200-$500 for the other (461,462,186,ect.. )camel hump hp small block heads. one last thing they will support370-400 horse power even in 1.94 valve sizes, proper porting with 2.02s(attn.to un shrouding) will support 450+ and maxed out welding by a few elite porting gurus have gotten 600+ out of these suckers and if you think i am wrong check out some of the NHRA records that still stand today with these heads
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Old 10-19-2011, 09:36:18 AM   #15
flowjoe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djgriff
461x heads were mostly 1.94,1.5 valves with some 2.02s the X was never in the cast # under the valve covers between the rocker studs but was cast on the under side of the water jackets on the intake side on the ends of the heads they do have 170cc intake runners and were the best factory heads in the early 60s(most were cast in 63-64,65, with some 62 66 date codes, they were The head to have in stock and super stock classes and came mostly on the hp corvette 327s with and without the Rochester FI but could be found in other models with hp 327(ss chevelles ,ss impalas and are highly sought after by collectors for restorations and by street stock roundy round racers. check out the ebay listings for original un modified 461x and most are getting well over $1,000 for them compared to $200-$500 for the other (461,462,186,ect.. )camel hump hp small block heads. one last thing they will support370-400 horse power even in 1.94 valve sizes, proper porting with 2.02s(attn.to un shrouding) will support 450+ and maxed out welding by a few elite porting gurus have gotten 600+ out of these suckers and if you think i am wrong check out some of the NHRA records that still stand today with these heads
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