NastyZ28 Forum



Go Back   NastyZ28.com > Regional Discussion, Events & Clubs > California 2nd Genners
User Name
Password

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-02-2010, 11:41:26 PM   #1
BayAreaCamaro
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ (Home is Antioch, CA)
Posts: 35
Can a ZZ4 pass the CA smog test?

Is it possible for a ZZ4 to pass the dreadful CA smog test, considering all emission equipment is hooked up? I'm considering getting a ZZ4 for my Camaro to add some power but I'm worried about the smog test when the time comes. Technically it's not legal but I don't think the inspector will know any better if all smog equipment is hooked up to pass the visual test (unless they're smart enough to notice the center-bolt valve covers and aluminum heads).
__________________
1978 Camaro Type LT
Goodwrench 350 crate engine
TH 350
3.08 open rear
Original paint
Blue/white interior
BayAreaCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 04:33:07 AM   #2
RaycerX81
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Hayward, Ca.
Posts: 553
If all the stuff is put on I dont see why it wouldnt pass, but the sniffer might say something else. I have a 350 in my Z( the 305 blew up) my vavle cover say Goodwrench 350 on them, and the smog guys have never said anything.
__________________
http://www.cardomain.com/id/RaycerX96

1981 Z28 4spd,1984 Z28 with rare factory 3.73posi option, 1994 Yamaha FZR600R, 1973 Chevy El Camino SS, 2005 Dodge Magnum R/T
1967 Bel Air Wagon, 1967 Impala Wagon
RaycerX81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 02:04:16 PM   #3
noobwrench
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lodi/Burson California
Posts: 465
My smog license expired a few years ago, but at that point in time, a ZZ4 was considered a gen 1 small block still, and was treated as a 1967 model year. You would still need a carb, and intake with a EO number and the stock air cleaner, as well as manifolds, air injection(if equipped), egr, and evap canister.

I would say that 75% of smog techs are mildly retarded, and wouldn't catch it, and if they did, because of their ineptness and inability to determine legality, would likely referee it. Thats not saying all smog techs are bad though.

At one point in time I smogged a ZZ4 in my 74, im not sure if it was actually legal or not though.
noobwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 02:27:42 PM   #4
ULTM8Z
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,703
From a tailpipe emissions standpoint, a properly tuned ZZ4 would be much cleaner than a factory 2nd gen Camaro. I'm running EFI on my ZZ4 and have run it on my own gas analyzer and it was very clean (even before I put cats on it) though it's also EFI so it's not quite a fair comparison. But even before the EFI and ZZ4, when I was running my old small block with the 214°/224° cam, the smog legal AFR heads, and the RPM intake, I was producing literally only 1/3 the emissions I was allowed for the 1971 2bbl sport coupe Camaro.

It's the visual you may have a hard time with if the inspector notices the center bolt rocker covers, the composite timing chain cover, and the aluminum heads. If your Camaro is earlier than '75, the HEI distributor would be a problem as well.

Also, when he goes to check your ignition timing, he'll be staring right at that composite timing cover, which may prompt further investigation.
ULTM8Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 05:40:46 PM   #5
Knuckle Dragger
SoCal Team Mom for Life / Moderator
 
Knuckle Dragger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Finding my wrench
Posts: 11,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobwrench
My smog license expired a few years ago,

I call BS on that dude. You're back again under a new user name and the BS starts again. You're parts store manager, a mechanic, just waiting for your letter from the highway patrol, and God only knows what else you claimed under THIS user name. It changes every post depending on what you think will be cool I guess. Man, quit playing the board for fools please.

To the OP, As far as the California smog program is concerned a small block is a small block. They go by engine family. A smog guy is not going to ship you off to the referee because you put a different small block in. He's not even going to care because it's a non issue. You be fine if you equip the car as it was equipped from the factory. PM me if I can be of any help. I worked as a California smog technician, and a very short stint with the dreaded Bureau of Automotive Repair. Don't let someone's fairy tails scare you out of building the car the right way.
__________________
I am not a reliable source for your daily affirmation needs.
Knuckle Dragger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 06:27:47 PM   #6
Kamikaze
Lifetime Gold Member
 
Kamikaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: So. Lake Tahoe CA. USA
Posts: 5,012
Here is what I can tell you from an install of a ZZ4 into a 75-75 car. It would not pass due to one simple mechanical problem.

Even though the ZZ4 intake has an EGR valve mounting the cylinder heads do not have the central heat crossover port to allow the EGR system to work properly. In order to make the EGR system functional, you would have to create a modification such as the later model Vortec truck engines did with a exhaust gas port tapped into the passenger side manifold then to the intake. Really not worth the efforts since it would fail the visual.

All the other mechanical aspects can be met but now the new Catalytic convertor headaches are creating more mis-informed techs and they are wrongly failing pre-OBDII cars for improper replacement catalytics...
__________________
Vehicles were made to be driven! Classic is cool but stock is boring!
Kamikaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 07:05:00 PM   #7
Knuckle Dragger
SoCal Team Mom for Life / Moderator
 
Knuckle Dragger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Finding my wrench
Posts: 11,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamikaze
Here is what I can tell you from an install of a ZZ4 into a 75-75 car. It would not pass due to one simple mechanical problem.

Even though the ZZ4 intake has an EGR valve mounting the cylinder heads do not have the central heat crossover port to allow the EGR system to work properly. In order to make the EGR system functional, you would have to create a modification such as the later model Vortec truck engines did with a exhaust gas port tapped into the passenger side manifold then to the intake. Really not worth the efforts since it would fail the visual.

All the other mechanical aspects can be met but now the new Catalytic convertor headaches are creating more mis-informed techs and they are wrongly failing pre-OBDII cars for improper replacement catalytics...

I was unaware the z24 lacked the heat cross over in the heads. You are 100% correct it will fail for that. It fails for EGR and EFE. As far as I know the referee will not/can not pass it either.

What's the deal with the cats?
__________________
I am not a reliable source for your daily affirmation needs.
Knuckle Dragger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 07:19:15 PM   #8
ULTM8Z
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 7,703
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamikaze
Even though the ZZ4 intake has an EGR valve mounting the cylinder heads do not have the central heat crossover port to allow the EGR system to work properly.

Crap... I forgot about that.
ULTM8Z is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 08:31:22 PM   #9
noobwrench
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lodi/Burson California
Posts: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuckle Dragger
I call BS on that dude. You're back again under a new user name and the BS starts again. You're parts store manager, a mechanic, just waiting for your letter from the highway patrol, and God only knows what else you claimed under THIS user name. It changes every post depending on what you think will be cool I guess. Man, quit playing the board for fools please.

Is one of about 18 or so letters I have, I tested for CVIS commercial vehicle inspection specialist, which also covers Auto tech 1 and 2, Ive interviewed in person at 6 locations and I have 2 more that I will probably interview for. I tested rank 3 number 1 as you can see on the paper, not bad for not having any experience in trucks at all in a class of about 500 people.


Is my 609, the only cert I have on me(was buying r12 for my 3rd "job" of side jobing AC), I have all 8 ASE's, but anyone that has them knows that they certify MINIMUM competency. I got my first one in 1998 when I was going to Los Medanos College, all have since expired. I originally wanted to go for computers and engineering, then leaned toward automotive. I have my AS and am a dropout. I am a graduate of the GM Automotive Service Education Program. I have my smog cert, took the clean air car course, never really paid attention as I knew I would never do a smog ever.

I currently work at pep boys, i was hired as a replacement for the manager that was on long term disability, shes now back. So my job is all over the place, but I mostly help the shop with parts sourcing, help the commercial sales manager with outside purchasing, assemble and sell motorcycles, sometimes I install tires, sometimes I sell tires and repair work, sometimes I spend all day helping other people. The only thing I consistently do is put all 70-160 tires up every week.

anyways im putting this on:

so Its time for me to split. Aparently someone broke the new snap on scanner so I get to learn all about that boy now. Then its off the Oscars' to R+R some leaf springs on a 1988 c1500. Ill be back on about midnight I suppose if you want to continue this.

Also why so abrasive? Come down and have a beer or something, im pretty easy to get along with...unless im driving lol.
noobwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 09:16:43 PM   #10
Knuckle Dragger
SoCal Team Mom for Life / Moderator
 
Knuckle Dragger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Finding my wrench
Posts: 11,729
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobwrench

Is one of about 18 or so letters I have, I tested for CVIS commercial vehicle inspection specialist, which also covers Auto tech 1 and 2, Ive interviewed in person at 6 locations and I have 2 more that I will probably interview for. I tested rank 3 number 1 as you can see on the paper, not bad for not having any experience in trucks at all in a class of about 500 people.


Is my 609, the only cert I have on me(was buying r12 for my 3rd "job" of side jobing AC), I have all 8 ASE's, but anyone that has them knows that they certify MINIMUM competency. I got my first one in 1998 when I was going to Los Medanos College, all have since expired. I originally wanted to go for computers and engineering, then leaned toward automotive. I have my AS and am a dropout. I am a graduate of the GM Automotive Service Education Program. I have my smog cert, took the clean air car course, never really paid attention as I knew I would never do a smog ever.

I currently work at pep boys, i was hired as a replacement for the manager that was on long term disability, shes now back. So my job is all over the place, but I mostly help the shop with parts sourcing, help the commercial sales manager with outside purchasing, assemble and sell motorcycles, sometimes I install tires, sometimes I sell tires and repair work, sometimes I spend all day helping other people. The only thing I consistently do is put all 70-160 tires up every week.

anyways im putting this on:

so Its time for me to split. Aparently someone broke the new snap on scanner so I get to learn all about that boy now. Then its off the Oscars' to R+R some leaf springs on a 1988 c1500. Ill be back on about midnight I suppose if you want to continue this.

Also why so abrasive? Come down and have a beer or something, im pretty easy to get along with...unless im driving lol.


Well you're busy guy, got your degree in engineering, manager as Pep Boys and a master technician. Posted all kinds of information except your smog license, your ASE certs. I still call BS

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobwrench
Just to give you an idea, there was over 200 applications for a parts position at my work I had to click cancel on when I hired my friend.

Thats 200 people that want part time work for minimum wage.

You're a fill in Manager with hiring powers to hire your friend, right. BS I worked for Pep Boys back in 87-88. The hiring isn't quite that simple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobwrench
Most universitys want more than one year of calc, I wasnt bale to transfer untill I had completed derivatives, which is something you will use.

When I finish school im just going for my degree in religion, Ill never be an engineer and it really doesn't matter what you major in anyways.


Quote:
Originally Posted by noobwrench
I have my degree as an engineering technologist, its worth about as much as a GED. I could in theory get a job drafting or surveying making about what I make now, but Im happy with my job, I like work which most people cant say. My best friend barely graduated highschool and he makes twice what I do doing drywall.

So which is it, you have your degree or your going for your degree (and work two jobs)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobwrench
Some of those police departments interviews are jokes. I passed EVERYTHING but I had quit one job once without notice and it disqualified me, I had only worked there for 1 week and the employer didn't care. Funny that the feds think its ok to work at LLNL DOE-DP project with secret clearance, but I cant be a sheriff? Our last sheriff is in prison, and our current one is so afraid of going there that his ignorance and incompetence is destroying his department.

Im in the long, long, LOONNNNGGG process of getting into the California Highway Patrol right now.

Also remember when they were doing my backround, and the detective doing it is parked across the street chilling in his truck staring at me, and I was loading guns into the Z on the way to the gun range, and I walked up to him, with a rifle on my shoulder, and politely asked who the hell he was.

And just exactly where did you get secret clearance. Do they require that at Pep Boys? You pulled the same crap when you posted that picture of your girl friend Jordi or what ever her name was. You got called and put up the huge front until the evidence was over whelming. I ain't buying it.

Since you posted your name I decided to look it up on the smog technician license confirmation page, you don't show up...imagine that. BTW I know your next excuse , they show even if expired.

http://www.autorepair.ca.gov/70_Site...fyLicense.html

I'd love to go through all your old posts and pull up the inconsistencies but it just not really worth my time. I'll guess the mods have better things to do than baby sit this post. I know who you are, others do too. Change your name again, what ever your fictitious boastful style will reveal who you are each time.

I'm abrasive because I find it insulting when people are less than truthful.

To the OP, I'm sorry I derailed your thread.
__________________
I am not a reliable source for your daily affirmation needs.
Knuckle Dragger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 10:37:46 PM   #11
cali cruzer
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Henderson/Las Vegas, NV
Posts: 2,459
Quote:
Originally Posted by noobwrench
I currently work at pep boys, i was hired as a replacement for the manager that was on long term disability, shes now back. So my job is all over the place, but I mostly help the shop with parts sourcing, help the commercial sales manager with outside purchasing, assemble and sell motorcycles, sometimes I install tires, sometimes I sell tires and repair work, sometimes I spend all day helping other people. The only thing I consistently do is put all 70-160 tires up every week.

anyways im putting this on:

.

I work for Pep Boys APD (over 2 yrs), Commercial Sales back up to the CSM. (CSA). Dude, how can you work all over the store like that!?
Sorry to go off topic
__________________
70 sport coupe-White,4" Harwood Cowl Hood, 350SBC,cam,headers,carb,TH400,15" Weld Pro-Stars ,4.10 Posi,Superior Axles,SSM Lift Bars,SFC's,B&M Megashifter,Recaros
cali cruzer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 11:47:44 PM   #12
BayAreaCamaro
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Tucson, AZ (Home is Antioch, CA)
Posts: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kamikaze
Here is what I can tell you from an install of a ZZ4 into a 75-75 car. It would not pass due to one simple mechanical problem.

Even though the ZZ4 intake has an EGR valve mounting the cylinder heads do not have the central heat crossover port to allow the EGR system to work properly. In order to make the EGR system functional, you would have to create a modification such as the later model Vortec truck engines did with a exhaust gas port tapped into the passenger side manifold then to the intake. Really not worth the efforts since it would fail the visual.

All the other mechanical aspects can be met but now the new Catalytic convertor headaches are creating more mis-informed techs and they are wrongly failing pre-OBDII cars for improper replacement catalytics...

Yep, I was aware of the lack of the crossover port even though the intake has an EGR mount. From what I understand, the EGR's sole responsibility is to reduce NOx emissions. NOx is directly related to combustion chamber temperature. The higher the temps, the higher the NOx levels. Am I right? If so, can I just run a higher octane fuel and retard the timing a bit to lower the NOx and make it pass? As for the EGR valve, I'll just mount one to the intake and make it appear I have a EGR to pass the visual. I'll do the same for the EFE.....have it mounted (including vacuum tubes) for the visual but not actually operational.
__________________
1978 Camaro Type LT
Goodwrench 350 crate engine
TH 350
3.08 open rear
Original paint
Blue/white interior

Last edited by BayAreaCamaro : 03-03-2010 at 11:50:41 PM.
BayAreaCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Messages from Our Sponsors !
Awesome NastyZ28.com Merchandise !!

T-shirts, wearing apparel

Drinkware, Mouse Pads, Decals

Old 03-04-2010, 12:24:24 AM   #13
zbugger
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: My own personal hell...
Posts: 3,781
Quote:
Originally Posted by BayAreaCamaro
...As for the EGR valve, I'll just mount one to the intake and make it appear I have a EGR to pass the visual. I'll do the same for the EFE.....have it mounted (including vacuum tubes) for the visual but not actually operational.
Just so you know, if you have a smart tech checking the components, an EGR can be tested manually. If it fails that test, you fail. And yes, I was trained as a smog tech. Some things have changed, and I haven't been keeping up with them for the last couple years, but I remember most of what I learned.
__________________
Meanstreets Performance Fabrication

---------------------------------------

Vegetarians are the reason for global warming
zbugger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 01:25:54 AM   #14
Kamikaze
Lifetime Gold Member
 
Kamikaze's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: So. Lake Tahoe CA. USA
Posts: 5,012
+1^ There is your answer!

If the inspector does their job properly by the book, they will check for the correct operation of the valves and if by the manual testing procedure it does not work, they have to fail it...
__________________
Vehicles were made to be driven! Classic is cool but stock is boring!
Kamikaze is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 01:33:11 AM   #15
noobwrench
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Lodi/Burson California
Posts: 465
Quote:
Originally Posted by cali cruzer
I work for Pep Boys APD (over 2 yrs), Commercial Sales back up to the CSM. (CSA). Dude, how can you work all over the store like that!?
Sorry to go off topic

0562 just got their commercial program back. I was hired as a replacement for the RSM who was on long term disability, shes back, but im still doing her job, and the jobs of several others. We only have 2 service advisers so I end up working service phones alot, and helping the express service techs when they get backed up. Also put together and sell those motorcycles. The store manager has me help him with hiring, as ive been 4/4 for the hires since I work there.

CSA huh? didnt know that position existed. Our commercial department is pretty bad blind leading the blind. And the lack of clear supervision or training is fairly handicapping too.

so you work at 1512? Ive always been curious how big that store is? they have EVERYTHING in stock, gotta be DC sized.

anyways im done proving myself to you guys, yall can go fudge yourselves.




watch the language please. POS

Last edited by POS71RS : 03-06-2010 at 04:03:11 AM.
noobwrench is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply




Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump



Copyright © 1997 - 2014 NastyZ28.com Inc.
Powered by vBulletin Version 3.5.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.