Let me tell you about a $1K paint job I saw last night

[earlysecond]

I got called to adjust the doors on a car that had a brand new red paint job as a favor to a friend. He bought the car to resell it and all of the work was done by a local bodyshop that has a decent name. I am sure that just the paint job BC/CC was $1200. I also believe that the bodywork and panel adjustment was done, on the cheap by the same shop. I AM surprised that a shop with any rep would put their name on this thing.

What can you expect for 2K body and paint from a bodyshop:

1. Spray filer on ALL panels the edges of the panels were also covered in the same making it a really crappy short cut to bodywork
2. Panel alignment that was hurried and a joke. The passenger door only caught on the safety catch and hit at the top of the opening in on the striker post. It had been that way for awhile becuase all of the paint was missing off of the edges of the door jambs the white spray putty was visible and chippe on all of the contact points. I removed the door to find painted over gaskets that would not allow the door to adjust at all.
3. Obvious rust repair that was puttied over on the bottom of the door edge. I was adjusting the door, guiding on lower door gap. . .there was a bow in the bottom edge of the door!
4. The base coat was not heavy enough in many spots and appeared light, the spray putty (or primer I am not sure) was visible.
5. The clear had runs, nibs, orange peel and poor adherence spots caused by water drips.
6. I peeled masking tape off of several places on edges. The sad thing was it was hiding non existent metal edges that had rusted away.
7. There was overspray on EVERYTHING a child could have done a better masking job. Honestly, somebody would have to try to do a job this poorly!

I was told that the owner of the car, now deceased was in a big hurry to finish the car. (maybe he knew that death was close). I was told that he mercilessly bugged all of the people he had working on the car and that he would stop by the bodyshop, daily and asked when it would be done. Maybe it was a little payback

I am sure that most shops would not let this kind of thing happen. I would not have believed any of it had I not seen the invoice for the paint job which I insisted to see.

Be careful. It is totally crazy what people will turn out, especially when pressured. I would not let this kind of crap go out of my amatuer paint shop. I could not, in good conscious, charge for this kind of mess. Know what you are getting into, do not rush, find someone who cares about your project, somebody who shares your vision, pay them WELL and stay in communication!

Brent

[1981gMachine]

If people want good quality work, and can't do it themselves. They need to expect to spend money. 2K would be pushing it just to paint the car. Let alone, any repairs, prep, rust, panel alignment, etc..

[mjoc]

You get what you pay for. a good paint job is expensive.

[wookie]

I could rant here but it's late and I just got back from the dragstrip.

[jdove]

Originally Posted by wookie

I could rant here but it's late and I just got back from the dragstrip.

^^Yea, and your significant other is posting some crazy stuff to .

I agree though. Good body and paint werk is expensive and well deserved. A cheap job usually equall's a disaster IMO.

[cmonson]

I did my own paint job using midline products. A complete strip down of everything, replacing quarters and a rocker I was in for over $2K in just the material.

If there were no metal replacement I would be in for about $1500 in materials alone. The work also took me 1.5 years to complete.

When a shop is doing work for $1200, you know they are not going to lose money. Fact of the matter, the actual painting took me 3 hours. If I used a single stage I could have done it in 1 hour.

IT IS ALL IN THE PREP. You get what you pay for.

[earlysecond]

Do you guys see a real advantage in spending big bucks on top of the line materials?

I can spray a car with metallic base and the same clear that I love for $200.

Omni Base at roughly $100/gal depending on color.
1/2 of a 2 gal sprayable mix of Transtar Euro High solids clear that runs about $200 at full price.

I usually buy PPG 900 commercial coatings epoxy primer mixed to my color of choice for about $100/ sprayable gallon

Add primer and reducers, cups, sticks, scuff pads, tape, liquid masking compound, fine grit sand paper, buffing compound and I would be hard pressed to get above $400.

I have been tempted, many times in the past to try a SPI or Pro Form high solids clear and reduce the cost of my clear. But I have no problem spraying $75 worth of clear that will buff out to a glassy finsih! I usually get jobber pricing on everything I buy though a "house" account at my supply shops.

If you want a true custom color, I will put a plug in for paintwithpearls.com.
Candy and ghost translucent materials for $10/25g bag. Get yourself some PPG DBC-500 interclear and spray out some tests until you find what you want. I am considering doing this today myself.

I have seen "top end" clears from PPG and Sikkens that yellow when built up. I can honestly say that this high VOC clear that I use is crystal clear no matter the mil thickness. Again, did I mention that it is <$100/sprayable gallon?

I have had my Camaro painted for 5 years with these products and I must say that it still looks like the day I did the final buff. I did buff and wax it about a year out and it made only a small improvement. Before I repaint this car I would be happy to post up some pictures of the way this stuff has lasted if anybody is interested. The clear is thick so it is a bit difficult to spray but is highly forgiving and comes out nice when cut and buffed and stays really nice for a long time. The only reason for me to respray my Camaro is that I used laquer/acrylic high build primer and I did a really poor job making sure that it was all scuffed, for that reason, I have some adhesion problems of the sealer. That, plus, I believe that I could now, if I take my time, do a true show quality paint job. Again, especially if I have pretty much unlimited time and show is my goal!

What products are you guys using to spray an average sized car that makes a bill for more than $1000 in paint materials alone? I may be missing something here and I want to make sure BEFORE I repaint the Camaro with custom yellow/green/gold pearl finish!

Thanks,
Brent

[joeljet]

sorry but i couldn't get anywhere with paintwithpearls.com

[Randy S]

Originally Posted by joeljet

sorry but i couldn't get anywhere with paintwithpearls.com

Try this link

[FLORIDA]

that's great information on paints early, where do you rate dupont? what is a good filler?

[1981gMachine]

F**K omni, junk paint imo

Evercoat makes good body filler. We use Rage at the shop but rage gold is "suppose" to be the best.

Dupont isn't bad paint, better then onmi. Which omni is PPG's bargain brand. I spray PPG deltron paint so I'm kinda biased on opinion.

[earlysecond]

Sorry guys, I had an extra "s" in that web address.

Florida, I am obviously not a pro. so my opinion is limited to the stuff that I usually use due to price etc.

1981g- Please know that I have respect for anybody who can make a living in the autobody trade. I respect your opinion of OMNI paint. I do wish that you would explain your opinion. My amatuer experience is that bargain bases do not cover well. I just sprayed some old Sherwin Williams 4th dimension. . .the paint that has been on my car for 5 yrs. So I get the coverage issue. Is there a huge difference in metallics or some other aspect? I was messing with pearls and did not fair so well.

I must say that I have never sprayed top of the line anything! If it is that much more easy or better then I am missing something that will improve my results I would pay the extra money without blinking.

I guess what I am getting at is that a shop uses a complete paint line that is sold to them by a salesman or paint rep. This alone is not evil, hell I sell expensive stuff everyday and make a living at it. My point is that there must be some tremendous difference between OMNI and Deltorn could you please explain it to me?

The whole beginning of this post was spent based on you usually get what you pay for. Other than a decent gun, I just used a Transtar, Binks knock off HVLP to lay down some cheap clear to practice and it is fine.

I value the input!

Thanks,
Brent

[motionwannabe]

i'll say this in the defense of omni paints . i've never had a problem with them. the only true difference is they are thinner than deltron bases. i've worked at several area dealerships and have used everything from ppg deltron to sherwin williams ULTRA7000, martin seanor brands, auto color, omni, transtar, sikkens, and i have NEVER had any problems. i worked for a caddy and bmw factory dealer that used only omni and the paint jobs were beautiful. its all in the skill level of the painter. if the painter is a good at what he does he can spray anything and make it nice. lack of experience and knowledge of the systems or just lack of skill in the painter themself are usually what lead people to refer to paint systems as junk. i worked for a shop and we did a testarossa with omni and it was absolutely beautiful. the omni clears are easy to work with they sand and buff like the deltron line if the tech knows what they are doing. Reguardless its all in the skill level of the painter

[cmonson]

Here is what my garage paint job cost (approx)

sandpaper = $200
Epoxy primer = $150
2K primer to block = $200
sealer = $100
base = $650
clear = $300
buffing materials = $100
tape, mask cartridges, paint screens, other accessories = $100

Comes to about $2K in materials alone. YES you can do it for $500, but this is the result when you use quality materials and take your time. This was the 1st time I EVER painted a car as well. Work was also done in the garage (DYI paint booth)

[earlysecond]

cmonson- Really nice results, whether it was your first effort or the 10,000th car you painted! You should be very happy that you mastered what others consider to be "Black Magic" i.e. paint an body work!

Here is a picture of my FIRST paint job that is now almost 6 yrs old.


As I stated earlier, it was cut, buffed and waxed over the years once or twice. This picture was taken the first day the car came out of storage this year. All that I had time to do was powerwash it at the local car wash.

This is Sherwin Williams 4th Dimension Custom Sunburst Yellow. I had the can out last night messing with pearl additives and the price, from 5 years ago was on the lid still. . .$66.50. I do not recommend this base as it certainly does NOT cover well. The Clear Transtar High solids, VOC Euro Clear. Like yours, this car was garage painted in a temp. makeshift booth.The first time I bought the stuff 5 years ago it cost about $180 BUT that is for 2 sprayable gallons so I could paint 2 cars for that price.

Since I have a lot of cosumable items laying around from various paintwork. Like sand paper, thinners, cleaners, and gallons of buffing compound, I tend to forget to add that in. Which means that I have forgotten to add that in when I have charged people.

So I will add it again,

Epoxy primer EPX 900 $100 per sprayable 1.5 gallons total 1 car $75
Base (highly color dependent so I will make it high) $200
Clear same stuff I referenced I can get good results $100
Sand paper for painting 600 to 200 grit $50 (way high)
Buffing compound (medium and find Mcguires 2 bottles each) $50
Screens, cups, stix $20
Urethane Grade Reducer $30
Laquer thinner for clean up $15

Can you spend a whole lot more?, yes in a heatbeat without a doubt. cmonson, you have about most expensive hue in your base. I believe that red is the big money!

I still have trouble making much more than $500 out of this.

At the end of the day, you CANNOT aruge with somebody's honest experience, only a fool will do that. Another thing it is hard to ague with is RESULTS!!

I try to demonstrate that the average guy with average skills LOTS of time can paint a car and get better than "professional" results. Are there shops out there that will give you a show finish and treat it like it was theirs? I bet there are but if they charge you for every single hour that they put into an effort like that. . .you will never get your car back because the paint will cost more than the sum of all the other parts!

I am honestly not trying to start a peeing contest. I just wonder what the average guy, who possesses a will to learn, has about $800-$100 to get everything needed including several guns (cheapie primer gun and decent top coat gun) and will spend his time (or hers sorry to offend female readers) to create lasting outstanding results.

Then the other question still remains, if you can get excellent results from mid price range materials and they hold up well, why would you pay so much more? If sombody admires your paint job, does the credit go to Sikkens, PPG, Dupont, HOK, Sherwin Williams? Or when sombody is admiring the finish on your car, do they more commonly ask "Who painted your car, it looks great"?

I take my had off to painters auto painters everywhere of all skill levels. I have a lot to learn, in fact, just last night I was really struggling to lay down clear without sagging it! I am out of practice.

The final point here is
DO NOT BE AFRAID TO PAINT YOUR OWN CAR. HONESTLY, IT IS NOT AS HARD AS PEOPLE MAKE IT OUT TO BE.

On that, I think most of us can honestly agree!

Brent