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View Poll Results: which GM 4 speed is stronger for racing purposes
Muncie 5 71.43%
Borg wrner 1 14.29%
Saginaw 1 14.29%
other 0 0%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 08-18-2008, 02:11:40 PM   #1
ky509
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Saginaw 4 speed transmission

I have a saginaw that was pulled from a camaro. The main case number is 338935. The tail shaft housing number is 352254. The side cover is 6261886

There is a J101 Which I believe is a date code but not sure
And a 172109821 that I believe is a vin number but does not match the camaro vin.

Can some one help me in figuring out what I have and what its out of originally. I do know for sure its a 4 speed saginaw by the photos on a couple different web sites. I just can`t seem to be able to find anything out on the numbers so as to figure out what gm car or truck it came from originally.

Would some of you saginaw gurus straighten me out please?
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Old 08-19-2008, 02:22:28 AM   #2
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no "performance" Camaro ever used a Saginaw trans. The SS and Z28 used the Muncie, then later the Borg Warner, never a Saginaw trans

the Saginaw was used in the "plain" Camaros
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:14:32 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by al8apex
no "performance" Camaro ever used a Saginaw trans. The SS and Z28 used the Muncie, then later the Borg Warner, never a Saginaw trans

the Saginaw was used in the "plain" Camaros

Thank You for that info as it will be helpful when I start selling off my Muncies. I`ve been sitting on 8 complete muncies and two basket case for nearly 30 years.

But is there any way of finding out what my saginaws originally left the factory in? I have 3 of them. The camaro the one above came out of was what I thought to be a 76 camaro. But, I had my wife dig out the title and it is actually a 1980 2nd generation camaro. I ran the title yesterday and it came back as either a R\S OR Z28 That is if the decoder was accurate. The vin is 1P87KAL It did have a 6 cylinder as the previous owner stated it did. The camaro has the tail spoiler and the front air dam and hood scoop. Heck I was just about to junk it out for scrap metal. Its been sitting on a piece of my property in the boonies rusting now for about 6 years. My son races oval track and I bought it just so he would have some extra sheet metal if he ever needed it. Well right after I bought it he changed classes and runs in a open wheel class. The bodies he runs now dosn`t even resemble a camaro. So this puppy has been sitting. Every piece of the body is there excluding the pass front fender which is probably in the trunk. I had a brain fart yesterday and pictured it with a straight axle under it and a 454 rat under the hood. It just so happens I have all the parts to build it with. I even have a one year only 1970 positraction 12 bolt original camaro rear end that would probably work well in it.

My saginaws I know does not hold the value of the muncies. But I figured they were worth at least 350 each. But it sure would be nice to know what body they originally came in and what engine package they were behind.

Any how thanks for your input its appreciated
Ed
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:33:11 AM   #4
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If the tranny came from a 6 cylinder car, it was not a Z28. No Z28 ever had a 6 cylinder engine.

Like was already mentioned, no serious performance Chevy came with a Saginaw. Chevy did use the Saginaw behind 2 bbl 350 engines, and they held up really well there, so my assessment of tranny strength runs like this.

#1 Muncie and Borg Warner (high compression small blocks and big blocks)
#2 Saginaw (6 cylinders and up to 2bbl 350 small blocks)
#3 T5 5 speeds ( 4 cylinders and up to 305 small blocks)
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Old 08-20-2008, 02:41:13 AM   #5
ky509
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary S
If the tranny came from a 6 cylinder car, it was not a Z28. No Z28 ever had a 6 cylinder engine.

Like was already mentioned, no serious performance Chevy came with a Saginaw. Chevy did use the Saginaw behind 2 bbl 350 engines, and they held up really well there, so my assessment of tranny strength runs like this.

#1 Muncie and Borg Warner (high compression small blocks and big blocks)
#2 Saginaw (6 cylinders and up to 2bbl 350 small blocks)
#3 T5 5 speeds ( 4 cylinders and up to 305 small blocks)


Ok then, if thats the case then that also answers the question as to whether my 80 camaro is a ralley sport or z28. The 6 cyl would definitly make it a ralley sport car if there were no z28 cars with a 6 cyl. We are making progress.

Now, how do I tell what body and engine a 4 speed saginaw came out of?
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Old 08-20-2008, 10:16:04 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ky509
Now, how do I tell what body and engine a 4 speed saginaw came out of?

There will be a partial VIN stamped on the tranny. That partial VIN will show the assembly plant that the car was built on, and often from that, you can determine what kind of car it came from. You won't be able to determine what engine was ahead of the tranny unless you still have the car.
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:17:01 PM   #7
al8apex
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary S
If the tranny came from a 6 cylinder car, it was not a Z28. No Z28 ever had a 6 cylinder engine.

Like was already mentioned, no serious performance Chevy came with a Saginaw. Chevy did use the Saginaw behind 2 bbl 350 engines, and they held up really well there, so my assessment of tranny strength runs like this.

#1 Muncie and Borg Warner (high compression small blocks and big blocks)
#2 Saginaw (6 cylinders and up to 2bbl 350 small blocks)
#3 T5 5 speeds ( 4 cylinders and up to 305 small blocks)

The Borg Warner trans is really a better trans as far as strength goes PLUS the Super T-10 had that awesome stump puller 1st gear that allowed you a "normal" rear axle ratio so you CAN go down the highway without pegging the tach ...
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:18:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ky509
Thank You for that info as it will be helpful when I start selling off my Muncies.

My saginaws I know does not hold the value of the muncies. But I figured they were worth at least 350 each. But it sure would be nice to know what body they originally came in and what engine package they were behind.

Any how thanks for your input its appreciated
Ed

Just sold a real nice Saginaw 4 speed for $100 ...

I do not know anyone that would buy one for $350 or so ... you may want to research the values before you price them
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Last edited by al8apex : 08-20-2008 at 03:33:24 PM.
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Old 08-20-2008, 01:52:13 PM   #9
ky509
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Saginaw value

Quote:
Originally Posted by al8apex
Just sold a real nice Saginaw 4 speed for $100 ...

I do not know anyone that would by one for $350 or so ... you may want to research the values before you price them

You need to check scrap iron prices,lol. Those things weigh nearly 90 pounds, you could have probably scraped it out for more money.

Just kidding. But there is just no way in this wide world I would take a 100 bucks for a nice usable GM 4 speed of any make. Maybe a saginaw with the cluster gear blown out and then I would have to ponder on it.

I started selling off a collection of Muscle car parts on e-Bay a few weeks ago that I have been collecting for over 35 years. In fact I have a couple items listed this week. One has already hit the reserve and will sell. Any how I watched e-Bay sales for a year before I started selling off my parts. And in the transmission department I was amazed at what some of the bits and pieces bring on there for muscle car tranny parts. At one time I was just going to throw my muncies on there for no reserve just to clear my shelves in one of my storage garages. But, after I saw a couple muncies bring over 15 hundred bucks I quickly changed my mind. I have every year from 1964 to 1970 covered in the muncies. Every one of them have nice gear sets in them and several probaly only need the rear seal and grease changed and could go right back on the road. The nice stuff seems to be bringing fair prices. Any how I think Now I`m going to sell one of the wide ratio muncies and use that money to refurbish the more rare ones that are bringing the big bucks.

On the saginaw identification. I had thought about and did look for the vin on 2 of the sags with no luck. They are easy to find on the muncies and do help in figuring out whats what on them. Hmmm, oh well, Its not like they`re worth all that much more if I did know what they were out of.
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Old 10-07-2009, 12:37:15 PM   #10
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The saginaw I am running behind my strong 350 I paid $150 for a few months ago, and the guy drove an hour to deliver it, which I tipped him an extra 20 bucks for. The synchro rings all had so little wear and the dog teeth were great that I put it in. I am driving on it now and it syncrhonizes up and down all gears great even at high rpms and aggressive downshifting.

Just because it is a 4 speed does not make it worth anything. I have run quite a few saginaws and also quite a few Muncie M20s and the sagainws do not shift anywhere near as well. The shift action is slower and clumsier because the Saginaw has so much less surface area on the blocker rings - probably like half as much.
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Old 10-08-2009, 12:54:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1977_TPI_Camaro
The saginaw I am running behind my strong 350 I paid $150 for a few months ago, and the guy drove an hour to deliver it, which I tipped him an extra 20 bucks for. The synchro rings all had so little wear and the dog teeth were great that I put it in. I am driving on it now and it syncrhonizes up and down all gears great even at high rpms and aggressive downshifting.

Just because it is a 4 speed does not make it worth anything. I have run quite a few saginaws and also quite a few Muncie M20s and the sagainws do not shift anywhere near as well. The shift action is slower and clumsier because the Saginaw has so much less surface area on the blocker rings - probably like half as much.

Well you got a heck of a good deal. However I sold one of mine to a local fellow that is rebuilding his camaro in a votech program and I got 350.00 for it. He is also coming back to buy the flywheel and clutch assy which I am holding for him.
You would probably crap if you knew what a good muncie transmission sells for around here,lol.
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Old 10-08-2009, 01:56:57 PM   #12
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The $150 for the saginaw is the 2nd most I have ever paid for one, I have bought probably 5 or 6 saginaws and they were all around $100. As far as the Muncies, buy low sell high. I have bought rebuilt early year M20s (the ones with the 7/8 countershaft IIRC) for $400 and resold for $850 to fund project cars. It all depends on what the person who commits to buy, is willing to pay at that time. Its still not hard to find an M20. Most people, me included, would rather have a T56 or a TKO 500 or 600 at this stage in the game. Having overdrive transmissions in classic cars is finally becoming more of the norm rather than the exception.
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Old 12-04-2009, 02:39:03 AM   #13
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my build sheet says m24 4 spd is that the same as an m20?
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:25:10 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patrickz28
my build sheet says m24 4 spd is that the same as an m20?

I've never heard of a m24. What year car is it?
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Old 12-04-2009, 10:59:47 AM   #15
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Hmm, my 73 RS/LT 350cid 4 barrel came with a sag 4 speed and ya #s matched the vin... it was a POS trans... my 4.3L pick up also had that trans.. 1 of the first things i did when i got my camaro home was rip that POS sag out and had my local trans guy build me a super T-10 , like night and day .. the super T-10 is kick A$$ ... i sold the sag , bell housing and POS shifter for $100...
here it is like a peice of art work, new shifter to .....bullet proof bell housing, and center force clutch...


lol, who ever is giving you $350 for a Sag , keep him around,k...
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