Wiped out a cam and lifters, need to clean out the metal, what should I do?
 

DON'T SAY PULL THE ENGINE!!! That's absolutely NOT an option right now, so keep that in mind please :)

There's not a ton of metal, and it's powdered, not chunky shavings. I'm sure some's gotten where it shouldn't have, but pulling the engine and doing a complete tear down is not an option so I have to flush this stuff out with the engine in the car. I'm going to install some magnets to help catch left over metal, but what should I do about flushing the majority of it out? I was thinking of installing a new filter and using my oil pump primer to run some kerosene or ATF through the engine. What do you guys think? Are there other options?

Any and all input is welcome, but again, please do not suggest pulling the engine!

Thanks guys!

Joel

Id say what you suggested your gonna do, is fine. If thats your only option.

Just so ya know THE EXACT SAME THING HAPPENED TO ME just last summer. I was gonna wash it out with deisel fuel and go, cause it was a brand new engine. NO WAY was I gonna go through another tear down. I had already waited a whole summer for him to get the build done. Plus I was out of money and couldnt afford another tear down.

The guy that built my motor INSISTED that I pull the engine and he said he would go through it FOR FREE!! Good thing I listened cause all the bearing were scored and had to be replaced. And the crank had to be turned.

Good luck with the "wash out" but by now the damage has already been done during the grinding of the parts ( even if its powder and not chunks).

Maybe you will be more lucky than I was, I hope so............

Pull the engine...if you dont dont, you will be doing it anyway and it will cost ALOT more.

When you run that stuff thru you should see it it's bringing it all back out with the flush. The block cavities will hide some since they snuck into those spots a while back when it was melting down to powder. Hopefully your rods are ok and you get all of it out. I would say your chances of success are 50/50 but I have another question.

Can you not find a used cam/ lifter set to throw in there for now.

Just wondering if you had other block sitting around and wouldn't have to risk another new set at this point.

Keep us updated Penix.

hey punk

Use this oil for your next break-in http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/pro...nebuilder.html. It has lots of ZDDP. Dump the oil/filter and refill with more BR oil and run for a few hundred miles and dump the oil/filter and refill with Hot Rod oil http://www.joegibbsracingoil.com/hotrod/index.html. It also has losts of ZDDP. The oil is expensive but I use it on my 70 Z28 and 87 Grand National.

Perfect example of if the oil filter bypass was plugged and a good filter was used there should have been no debris going through the bearings.

We had a circle track customer that ate up 4 dist. gears one nit because they did not shim the dist correctly at the end of the year we tore the engine down for a refreash and the bearings did not have a mark on them.

The cylinder walls did show some scratches here and there.

On the brite side i've done this (without an engine flush) and been fine many times. hopefully you get most of it out and it will still last you a while.

You could get lucky by doing it that way, or you could not.

My friend wiped a cam in his 355 and he did what your doing. Stuck a new cam/lifters in it and hes still running it today...7.80's in the 1/8th.

Im not sure if he even did anything besides change the oil a couple times.

Did any of those lucky guys have that dissolved metal as visible as Penix has stated. That would give me the Willy's going to start that engine up with new cam set installed knowing that breakdown material was present. I guess it's all about luck and if you can rinse it all out you are definitely lucky.

I wouldn't be winding 3 or 4,000 RPM down the country road for a few days until you know it's going to hold together.

Hearing anymore funny sounds in the first few days will be a big...:whine:

I have had several that lift metal debris so thick the oil looked metallic when I drained it.

Sounds llike you guys are wiping your cams due to insufficient ZDDP.

I'm gonna try not to take offense to the attitude present in your post... It's not a matter of wanting to do this "the lazy man's way", it's a matter of not being able to take any more time off of work. I have other bills and responsibilities that come first and right now this does not allow for me to do a tear down, AND I KNOW A TEAR DOWN IS THE RIGHT WAY!!! I'm no amateur, it's just my first time dealing with this particular problem. I've never personally wiped out a cam before, and I've installed several. I've dealt with wiped out cams and lifters several times over the years, and every time I've had the option of pulling the engine and doing a complete tear down, until now. And it's easy to say spend more now or spend more later, but what if you actually CAN'T spend more now, and CAN spend more later? That's the boat I'm in right now...


Actually, I thought I had lost the old XE262H I had but I was able to find it last night while going through some of my old parts. I was pulling out a 638 4-bolt roller block to send to the machine shop here in a few weeks when I have more money.

I'm gonna take a look at the cam today and see if it's usable.

The cam bearings look fine, no scoring what so ever.

Oh, Geezer, in reply to your gravity flush comment; I'm not just pouring this stuff in the top and hoping gravity does the rest, I'm using my oil pump primer to actually pump it through the passages. I've got a magnetic drain plug and K&N oil filter going in. I am going to keep flushing it until I don't find a spec a material on the drain plug. I chose the K&N filters because they don't have a filter bypass valve like most others... I should have run one of these from the get go, but I used a FRAM HP instead. I won't be making that mistake again.

To those not ragging on me about not pulling the engine, thank you, I really appreciate it! Believe me, I'm beating myself up enough over that fact.

COPO, I'm making sure lack of ZDDP is not an issue this round. For break in I've got a bottle of Lucas Oil break in additive, that I'll be using with 10w40 synthetic. After break in I'll be using Amsoil's Permium Protection 10w40 which has very high ZDDP levels, roughly 1400 ppm. I'll also be using moly lube on the lobes this time instead of skimping and using left over comp cams assembly lube.

I got the XE274H from my friend for $85, so if I can't use the XE262H I'm fine with that, still cheaper than one from Summit.

Gm does have a hard faced lifter that they used in the last of there flattappet engines and it was designed for 200k. I used them in a 454 I did a cam swap in and it ran for 2 miles with no oil pressure rattling like a coffee grinder after a trail fix on the dist. 20k later and no flat cam.

Understand that the oil pump has pumped some of that debris from wiping the cam out through all of the oil passages of the engine: through the main and rod bearings, through the cam oil galleries, through the cam bearings, up through the top of the engine through lifters, up through the push rods, over the rocker arms (and the rocker arm balls) into the heads where it returns via the timing chain gallery and the top of the engine.

I know for a fact that you can't clean all of that with the engine in so resolve yourself that you're going to 1) not pull the engine and ruin it OR 2) you're going to pull the engine out, send it to a machine shop to have it cleaned, put all new bearings, rings, timing chains gear set, gaskets, and a new cam kit in it.