i just got a 400ci from a 78 suburban!!!
my question is:
how much horse power can i get from it, just changing the heads, and leaving the stuck components????
camaro 78
400 tranny
3.43

Whats it going in?
Might as well change heads and cam,
I pulled one out of a suburban once changed cam and intake only with the factory dished pistons and open chamber heads it ran 8.50 1/8 mile in a 1988 camaro with 2800 stall and 3.42 gear

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mwilson:

I dont know what the difference is but the average guy with a 400 runs 11's most 350's run 12-13, street cars only around here.
</font>


8.50 in the eighth and 11's in the quarter? Must have some kinda top end....

Spinnin like hell through the 1/8!!
Man im falling out of my chair here!
your killing me!!
8.50 at 98mph 11.46 at 133mph

Seriosly your not gonna run that ridiculous #
my buddy ran one in his ride changed heads and cam ,3.73 gear 78 Z28, 4 speed he ran 7.90's all day he even stuck 75 kit on it for 2 years racing every weekend i cant remember what it ran though.

cam?
suggestions please.
any of you guys know how many hp, had the 400 when new??
How much can i get from it, like 250 hp???

Sorry,
What converter, gear, heads, type car and year, mostly street, mostly strip, mostly street but want strip attitude?

Book says for a 79 400 8.2 cr is 198 hp

400's weren't much on hp from the factory they were torque monsters but with a little help they can break every part in the drivetrain!

converter?? still the original
3.43 gear
400 tranny
78 camaro z28
The heads... some friend of mine told me that he had some "camel hump", but i dont have the number so i dont know the air flow.
Can you guys tell me how do i choose my cam?
How do i choose a new cionverter?
thanx

I wish some attitude, sound and a little "street and strip".
Not for racing and stuff.
Just for looking good.
if you guys know what i mean

call these guys
http://www.howardscams.com/
Id say somewhere around 220 duration with the stock converter

[This message has been edited by Mwilson (edited December 29, 2004).]

but.....how many hp???
like 250??? with the stuck components???

I think stock is about 250?

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mwilson:
400's weren't much on hp from the factory they were torque monsters but with a little help they can break every part in the drivetrain!</font>


they need a lot of help to break other parts, i hit 9.9 with 12.9 comp 412 this summer sith powerglide and stock other than gears 81 turbo ta 10 bolt rear end, GIVER THE POWER, IT CAN TAKE IT

It was a joke son, i say it was a joke !
Seriously your probrably not going to break anything for a while i was just trying to put the potential for torque into perspective when compared to a 350, alot of potential

------------------
13.23 @ 102 and dropping
believe it or not no nitrous or blower!

cool!!!
thanx, and what about traction bars???
Should i get the "uneversal" or the other ones???

they started out like 265hp and then ended up after GM went net hp, down around 150hp to 175hp 2-barrel and 180hp 4-barrel.

Get her up to about 9.75 to 1 CR. along with big valves, a good 750 four barrel and a set of 1.625" four tube long headers and she will run pretty darn good with no more then a CC 270 Magnum or Isky 270 Mega Hy-cam..

pdq67

PS., and do a good bowl job and dingle-berry port clean up to help her breath better unless you opt for some better aftermarket heads over the stockers...

thanx.

my friend told me that a 350 its a better choice???
what do you guys think_

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by figueroamiguel:
my friend told me that a 350 its a better choice???
what do you guys think_</font>

NO. I'd take a 400 any day over a 350. Why give up 50 cubes and a ton of TQ?!?

I think you need a new friend....

Lots of torque??
How much torque you guys think that I am giving up with the 350 vrs 400??

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by figueroamiguel:
my friend told me that a 350 its a better choice???
what do you guys think_</font>

Your buddy probrably has a 350 he'll trade too!! just to help you out!!!


------------------
6cyl,2 barrel,3spd,3.08's,40 mpg,367 rwhp 7's 1/8 mile

It depends on how you build your motor. If you had a conservative buils that made 1#ft per cubic inch, you would make 50#ft more torque with the 400. That represents a 14.3% increase in torque with virtually no weight penalty.

A quick EA3.0 simulation shows from 1000 to 5500 rpm with a mild SBC
355" average torque - 317#ft, peak torque - 385#ft
406" average torque - 354#ft, peak torque - 435#ft

Desktop Dyno gives me 300HP and 450LBS of torque.
stock heads, compcam kit (20-212-2), holley dbbl pumper 650cfm, 2200rpm stall, TH350, 3.73 gears

alreaday broke 2 TH350 cases because of wrong engine silent blocks...

295 rear tires, make them smoke at every red light.

this is a torque monster! I don't drive it under rain, too dangerous ;-)

get a 400 if you can. it's a rare block, even more here in France.

My dear friend from france:
i do have the 400ci and the 400tranny.
I got my camaro from a junk yard.
No engine, no tranny.
I got the 400ci and the 400tranny from an old suburban.
But both the engine and the tranny still in very good shape.
I am from guatemala central america. so believe me. Here the 400 ci it is a rare engine too.

broke two th350 why?

..... so how rare is 400ci???
is it the sam with the 400 tranny??

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by figueroamiguel:
..... so how rare is 400ci???
is it the same with the 400 tranny??</font>


The 400 chevy engines are rare. I dont think you will find one in most junk yards.Especially a #511 or #509 010/020 casting. If you go to a machine shop if they have one they usually have something wrong with them or a 817 casting. When I was up and about a year ago the few I found needed sleeves or a .060 overbore. If you find a mint 400 block better bring your checkbook. I have seen cores go for as much as $600 Plus. The shop I went to wanted $1,000 for a .060 over bore 4 bolt main block. But hell worth it having the largest inch small block chevy made. If you want a sneaky mouse you would abe a fool to build a 350 or 383 when you can have a 406! the problem is can you find a 400 block? If you have one I would hold on to it and build a powerful small block. You be glad you did!
the TH400 tranny is just that a transmission.

400 all the way bro!! I've never regreted the day I built mine, and it's mild too.

Stock block with stock dished pistons
TFS 23 degree heads with 64cc chambers, box stock.
Mild Speed Pro hyd. roller cam: 278 adv. duration, 458 lift.
Qjet with a GMPP ZZ4 intake
1-5/8 headers
2000 stall
3.42 gears

I can punch it in 2nd gear and break them loose. Can't wait to get a bigger cam, even better heads, and a 2800 stall http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

Look at this $250 and its already been bored
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33613&item=7947085847&rd=1

Reserve not met and its up to $255
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33613&item=7946962457&rd=1

Needs some work buy me for $800
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33613&item=7948288473&rd=1

350 block anyone?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33613&item=7946766981&rd=1

If you keep your eyes open and shop around you can still find a good deal on a 400. I picked up a 509 010/020 2 bolt block for 100 that I just got back from the machine shop and cleaned up at .030 over bore. Just keep looking.

Dave

I'll need to check casting numbers if you guys want but I have a source for 400's. I check in with him about every two weeks and he always seems to find 10-15 at a time. He does all the required machining, they're magnafluxed, align-bored, decked-the works plus brass freeze plugs. Obviously, every block is a little different-most are .030-over but a few are usually clean. If you guys want on a list of serious buyers, then emailme at gmachinz@juno.com and I can get you however many 400's you want (to a point...lol) I get $650 apiece for them + shipping ready to go. I'm in Des Moines, IA. so you cansave shipping by picking it up here if you're close. Let me know-I expect to come into a lot of race-used blocks too with the new rule eliminating 400's from circle tracks now. Just an FYI for you guys. -Jabin

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Silver75:
If you keep your eyes open and shop around you can still find a good deal on a 400. I picked up a 509 010/020 2 bolt block for 100 that I just got back from the machine shop and cleaned up at .030 over bore. Just keep looking.

Dave</font>

If you find one that cheap the seller didnt know what he had http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/wink.gif

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by gmachinz:
I'll need to check casting numbers if you guys want but I have a source for 400's. I check in with him about every two weeks and he always seems to find 10-15 at a time. He does all the required machining, they're magnafluxed, align-bored, decked-the works plus brass freeze plugs. Obviously, every block is a little different-most are .030-over but a few are usually clean. If you guys want on a list of serious buyers, then emailme at gmachinz@juno.com and I can get you however many 400's you want (to a point...lol) I get $650 apiece for them + shipping ready to go. I'm in Des Moines, IA. so you cansave shipping by picking it up here if you're close. Let me know-I expect to come into a lot of race-used blocks too with the new rule eliminating 400's from circle tracks now. Just an FYI for you guys. -Jabin</font>


Jabin, keep your eyes peeled. I'd like to at least have TWO spares sitting ready to build. I don't mind shipping unless it's ridiculous. I've heard some places will ship as cheap as $75.

I guess it depends, I was able to pick up my standard bore 400 block for $200. It was a 509 010/020 block too, cleaned up perfect .030" over.

I searched around town for 2 days to find it, just talking to people and machine shops. I ended up finding 3 or 4 blocks, but this one was the best... Talk to local racers or engine builders- they might have a line on a block somewhere too.

Sounds like great buildup potential. I have a 3951511 that cost $150 (rusty, needed lots of machining to clean up, and tanking), and a 330817 with real thick walls for $270 that will go .020".

A cam in the 220 duration @ .050" would be GREAT for a street car with that gear and stock tranny.

The TH400 is a heavier duty trans than the TH350, built beefier. BUT the downside is they use up maybe 15hp extra from your flywheel hp vs rear wheel hp due to the extra weight of the rotating components mostly.

The thing with a 400 is that you have to modify any head that you put on it other than the stockers (which don't have as much potential as what you should be looking for).
If you search the hundreds of 400 sbc related posts, you'll find that you have to drill steam holes in the new heads. All you have to do is use the head gasket as a template. Some are straight in to penetrate the water jacket, some are at a 15 degree angle I believe. Somewhere I have a detailed illustration on h ow to drill them. It was from maybe a World Products cylinder head owner's literature or something. Might still have it on my computer.

The cylinder walls are siamesed, attached to one anotehr in the middles, instead of space in between the cylinders for coolant to circulate. This makes pockets under the deck surface for steam to form. Steam does not absorb heat like water does, and it is not able to circulate out of there at lower street rpm's. Therefore there are steam holes drilled in the deck surface of the block that are made to vent steam through the matching holes in the heads in order for the coolant to circulate properly in those areas. Otherwise you end up with hot spots, and this is a reason a lot of people might say that 400's run hot, cylinder walls prone to cracking, etc... Becuase you have to fix this problem when you swap heads!

Another thing is - double hump heads are GREAT for free especially. BUT - most have smaller 64cc chambers. A few might have 67cc chambers, but not positive on which ones. Most have 2.02/1.60 valves I believe. A few have smaller valves. Anyhow, you would probably want a head around 70 or 72 cc's if you are running stock pistons, otherwise you will have a whole lot of compression and be unable to run pump gas without octane booster. Not sure what the compression will end up at, it's been years since my first interst in building up a "basic 400" (that turned into a $4500 engine!), but I think that would give you 11.2:1 compression with stock pistons and 64cc heads. Too much for iron heads and pump gas! Stick to 9.5:1 for no detonation on pump gas. And good quench height. Measuring how far the pistons at top dead center are down below the deck surface + the head gasket thickness should equal around .039-.045" I believe for best resistance to detonation/pre-ignition. Most factory engines will have thin steel shim type head gaskets, where most aftermarket gaskets are for blocks that have been decked and have the piston close to 0" from deck (i.e. zero decking). Most of those gaskets are .039-.045" thick.

Stock bottom plus a hydraulic cam around 220/220 .450/.450 110-112LSA would be killer with a good set of headers and an X-pipe (pypesexhaust.com), better heads - world products SR Torker's are cheap and sorta like double humps), and a Performer Intake and 750CFM Edelbrock Performer/Carter AFB, or a worked Quadrajet (older non-computer controlled). That would give you a real serious "seat of the pants" feel.

Good luck!

------------------
'71 RS/SS project: fastburn rollercam 406sbc / 9.75:1 / 750 Competition AFB / big 4 whl discs, 1-7/16 VSE ft & 1" Rancho adj. rr sway bars / 4 speed 3.23 posi / 81 Z28 & dual snorkel vette Air Induction

Also, stock pistons aren't good for serious torque and high compression! I'd see about getting some 18cc dished KB hypers, or better yet, some similar Wiseco dished pistons. And maybe some 5.7 rods while you're at it, and a freshening up on the bottom end.
Or just run it with lots of octane booster and stock pistons!
But what do I know, sometimes some people can get away with a lot more than others and be fine! If you blow up a piston, you can have a good excuse to have the block bored, put longer rods and matching pistons in, and freshen up the bottom.

I have buddies running flat tops with double humps 64cc same motor no rebuilds for years
no problems two in particular both running mid 11's one with ebrock RPM cam and 3.08 gears, the other comp 280 mag and 3.42 gears

id swear they have been running the same darn motors for over 5 yrs!

I don't know how they get away with that on pump gas. I ran 64cc Vortecs - which have a much better chamber design than the camel humps - and I could not run a full throttle pass at the track on 94 octane. I used 2-valve relief flat top pistons. That's over 11:1 CR (11.3:1 in my case.) I ran 32 degrees total timing and always had to add a gallon or two of 100 octane av gas for the engine to be happy.

My advice is to use a dished piston in a 400 if you use 64cc cast iron heads. 400's build compression very easily unlike a 350. Not hard to put too much CR into the engine for pump premium.

------------------
'Silver Bullet' 1977 Z-28 413" SB
11.73 @ 115.10 on drag radials
Old Vortec combo:
12.15 @ 110.52

they run stock 400 rods 93 octane maybe its altitude he lives at sea level? I know he runs 36 deg timing too? Does sound like alot but man they been doing it for years?

I run stock 400 rods, 94 octane, and live near sea level also. I still don't see how they do it.

------------------
'Silver Bullet' 1977 Z-28 413" SB
11.73 @ 115.10 on drag radials
Old Vortec combo:
12.15 @ 110.52

what cam r you running?

Hey dirt this guy can afford any motor he want's too, He runs thurs, fri , sat ,sun every week and goes to semi's atleast each time! He frequently runs two classes a night with the same car and on top of his construction business he must be making $1,000 to $2,000 a week at the track, the joke about him is when he starts his car he's going to get paid!But anyway thats what he's running and he runs the heck out of it?
cast "Powerhouse" stuff is all he runs!

He drives it weekly to:
Kinston
Harrels
Coastal Plains
New Bern

He broke down bought a 383 with all good stuff 6 mos ago and he's only made three races over 6 mos with it he has to keep sticking the old worn out 406 back in while the 383 is in the machine shop?

This guy goes around to peopls shops and yanks used head gaskets out of the trash!

[This message has been edited by Mwilson (edited January 18, 2005).]

The cam still the original.
For my daily driver.
But i am going to change it for a better one later.

any suggestions???

I had no problems with my flat top piston 400 motor with Vortec heads on 94 sunoco. it was well over 11 to one compression.


DJ

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Doug Jaynes:
I had no problems with my flat top piston 400 motor with Vortec heads on 94 sunoco. it was well over 11 to one compression.


DJ</font>


Doug - how far is the piston down in the hole?

Did you use a vacuum secondary carb or double pumper?

Did you have a source of cold air to the carb?

What was your cam profile, and what was your total timing and at what RPM was it all in by?

Thanks.

------------------
'Silver Bullet' 1977 Z-28 413" SB
11.73 @ 115.10 on drag radials
Old Vortec combo:
12.15 @ 110.52

Doug - how far is the piston down in the hole?

block was paralell decked to 9.000" SRP flat top pistons were 2 or 3 thou in the hole.


Did you use a vacuum secondary carb or double pumper?

holley 750 vac

Did you have a source of cold air to the carb?

had a 2" cowl hood but just had a K&N drop base air cleaner on it with no ducting.

What was your cam profile, and what was your total timing and at what RPM was it all in by?
it was a comp xe274 hyd cam and TT was about 32 degrees . all in by 3k

If you do a search of the archives from several years ago I went into more detail about it.

Doug

Mine sat .024" down in the hole (undecked), and I have a stock flat-steel hood with no source of cold air to the carb.

Thanks for the details.

------------------
'Silver Bullet' 1977 Z-28 413" SB
11.73 @ 115.10 on drag radials
Old Vortec combo:
12.15 @ 110.52

I have a disabled source of cold air in my 78 z28. Do you guys think that i should enable it?
<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Dirt Reynolds:
Mine sat .024" down in the hole (undecked), and I have a stock flat-steel hood with no source of cold air to the carb.

Thanks for the details.

</font>

It cant hurt.
an old rule of thumb is for every 10 degrees the inlet air temp is decreased = a 1 % hp increase.

DJ

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Dirt Reynolds:
Mine sat .024" down in the hole
</font>

That may be your detonation problem my buddies is decked and even though the comp. goes up it is supposed to be better for preventing detonation the closer to "0"
you get

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mwilson:
That may be your detonation problem my buddies is decked and even though the comp. goes up it is supposed to be better for preventing detonation the closer to "0"
you get</font>


I'm aware of that. It's why I asked Doug for details on his shortblock, since it's pretty close to what I have. The decked block and cowl hood pretty much told me where his combo would work on pump gas and why mine doesn't (unless it's during the cooler Fall months.)

------------------
'Silver Bullet' 1977 Z-28 413" SB
11.73 @ 115.10 on drag radials
Old Vortec combo:
12.15 @ 110.52

Don't forget Dirt that you're at sea level and Doug may be at 2 or 3 thousand feet elevation, less air up here. http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
Custom Auto, your source for quality machine work, cores and new parts at competetive pricing right here in British Columbia 1-888-563-4050
A Canadian, EH? (with a 10 second street car)

Hey dirt maybe your jetting or fuel curve is too lean?

se michigan here about 600 to 800'

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Mwilson:
Hey dirt maybe your jetting or fuel curve is too lean?</font>

Not the problem. I extensively tuned my 3310 with several modifications and upsized the jetting considerably on the secondary side.

This started out as a budget short-rod motor, so the block wasn't decked. Even so, I tend to think a cowl hood would really make a big difference. As I think I already posted, in the colder months I have no problems running on 94 Chevron. It's when we get the heat of summer it was having issues. Funny thing now is, with 12.4:1 CR, Victor Jr and Bow Tie aluminum heads, the engine runs about 20 degrees cooler and I could actually hammer it on 94 without a problem, even in the summer months. The aluminum heads seem to throw off a ton of heat.



------------------
'Silver Bullet' 1977 Z-28 413" SB
11.73 @ 115.10 on drag radials
Old Vortec combo:
12.15 @ 110.52

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by rustbucket79:
Don't forget Dirt that you're at sea level and Doug may be at 2 or 3 thousand feet elevation, less air up here. http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/wink.gif

</font>


Yep, right at sea level. Maybe you should move down here, Rust. http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/biggrin.gif



------------------
'Silver Bullet' 1977 Z-28 413" SB
11.73 @ 115.10 on drag radials
Old Vortec combo:
12.15 @ 110.52

Love the ET's and the track, hate the traffic (watch BCTV news every weekday morning, YIKES on the traffic report) and the cost of housing. Perpetual rain kinda sucks too lol.

------------------
Custom Auto, your source for quality machine work, cores and new parts at competetive pricing right here in British Columbia 1-888-563-4050
A Canadian, EH? (with a 10 second street car)

guess your just at the edge!