As some already know from my last post I bought a Garrett T60 twin turbo setup for my sb and have been doing alot of reading on different setups.
I have been leaning towards a blowthru for cost purposes this year,then maybe switching to F/I when the money is available.The car will be race only any comments on pros and cons?Tks

I would put that one down as a pure cost vs. tunability trade-off. I doubt there would be much difference in maximum HP if both were tuned properly and roughly the same flow potential, but the FI setup would certainly allow for more precise tuning with better idle, part throttle, cold-start behavior, altitude compensation, temperature compensation, etc., etc. And all this would be made easier becuase FI systems are usually capable of being integrated with an O2 sensor (for immediate feedback on your tuning changes) and the fact you won't have to lean over a fender to change the tune!

But I don't build race motors so none of that may apply to you. I bet the easier/more precise tunability would, though.




[This message has been edited by Damon (edited January 03, 2005).]

the short version, if its race only go carb & save the bucks for later.

the long version, as damon said, the best part of EFI is the drivability & tuneability. thats a given/fact/take it to the bank kind of thing. HOWEVER, I think that you can get darn close with some time & patience (& maybe a little pro help).

that said, if this was a straight up EFI VS Carb NA shootout. I have money that says that a carb makes more HP than EFI. much?????? nah....... would I be able to tune the carb to get that last little bit???? not likely, but I trust my carb guy & this is what he say so......

Now when we switch to boosted.......... from what I gather there is a lot to running a carb for the intercooler affect. the air forced through the booster mixing with the nicely attomized/emmulsified gas (not sprayed gas) removes a LOT of heat. depending on who you talk with, this is worth the price of addmission.

my plan is to go carb for the time being & eventually go EFI. why?????? I love the toys. if the Carb works out bitchen....... forget the EFI, I will put more bucks into the next motor.

take this for what its worth. Ive run both carb & EFI on a NA stroker motor. EFI hands down. I have run plenty of bottle (quite some time ago), but again this upcoming season. I have NOT run a turbo/Centrifugal, so this is just from the info I have gathered on my upcoming project.

HTH's @ least some.
Bob

I have to agree with you guys as well as my local Guru(not really local),he's already put a package together for me that He thinks I should go with and is helping out rounding up the parts.
From what I've read I think he's going overkill a little, but he says too much won't hurt to a point.Here's what he wants me to use:
Super Vic (Dom. flange)
98mm Holley Injection
100 lbs. injectors
Commander 950 (free so I won't argue)

I though the 98mm was big as well as the injectors which I thought 85's would do.

Any thoughts?

How many injectors on this setup? 4 sitting over the throttle bores or 8- one per intake runner? And at what fuel pressure?

If you are working with someone knowegable about seting up and FI engine don't second guess them too much. And for a race motor going overkill with the injectors is probably a good thing. If you make enough power that the injector duty cycle gets over about 80-85% at peak demand (max HP) that's a bad thing. The tuning maps SAY you're putting in more fuel, but really the injectors can't spray any more and you can lean it out pretty bad and trash a good motor.

If you go too big the idle and light throttle behavior can get a little "funky" but since this is a race motor I don't think that would be a big concern for you.

It's 8 injectors Damon,and my friend made 2100hp/1900 torq. with his 434 single turbo setup so yes he is pretty knowledable about it.It just seemed pretty big to me.
This will be race only so you're probably right and is why he is going big.Tks for the input.

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by craggar:
It's 8 injectors Damon,and my friend made 2100hp/1900 torq. with his 434 single turbo setup so yes he is pretty knowledable about it.</font>

And which race car game was this? http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

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350CID, Vortec 062 heads, Magnum 280, Performer Intake, Holley 650 DP, 3.42 rear w/ Auburn posi, 2600 Stall/TC
"Things are more like they are now than they ever were before."
Former U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by AJ_72:
And which race car game was this? http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

</font>

Actually you could say it's low given single turbo imports are exceeding 1000 with only 4 cylinders and 2 liters.

Will be interesting to see what the Pro Mods do this year now that they can run turbos.


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70 SS 454 CI Dynoed 684 HP, 702 TQ All Aluminium Fuel Injected Small Block , plus 200 - 500 HP NX nitrous system.

OK. I was a little too sarcastic, but if the guy has really built that engine and knows that much about it, why are you (craggar) asking people on this board? Shouldn't he (the guy with the 2100 hp engine) know what to do?

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by AJ_72:
OK. I was a little too sarcastic, but if the guy has really built that engine and knows that much about it, why are you (craggar) asking people on this board? Shouldn't he (the guy with the 2100 hp engine) know what to do?</font>

That was the first one he built as well,and I'm sure it will make more.He was a nitrous junkie before that so I don't expect him to know everything about turbos over night which is why I'm asking here where there are a lot of people who have been around this stuff for awhile in case you haven't noticed.
I know nothing about them but at the same time I'm not trying to do the same as him and think he is going too big for my goals from what I have read.
The other reason I posted this topic was because he's not into blowthrough setups only f/i, I've seen some blowthrough setups that more then suffice for my goals and I feel more comfortable around a carb then f/i.
Now why don't "you" go back to "your" race game and save you smartass comments for someone else.
BTW If you still don't believe me ask Mark Kaplan who frequents this site and knows Dave,he'll verify what I'm saying.




[This message has been edited by craggar (edited January 05, 2005).]

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by craggar:
Now why don't "you" go back to "your" race game and save you smartass comments for someone else.</font>

Oh. Calm down. http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

You can't blame me for being doubtful. If I came in here (or anyone for that matter) and claimed I knew someone that made more than 2,000 HP from a engine THAT BIG with only one turbo you'd also think I was full of chit. Don't lie.

Then, if I questioned his thinking, wouldn't that add to the suspicion?

If I knew someone that could make that kinda power with one turbo (which I don't), I don't think I would be questioning their advice.

The math just didn't (and actually still doesn't) add up.

I'm going blow thru on my project. Go to www.turbomustang.com, (http://www.turbomustang.com,) there is a whole section on carb building etc. Pat

FWIW, 2000+ on a single in a small block is not out of the question. it would have to be a big single & a very efficienty A-W Intercooler, but doable.

Check this out http://www.highperformancepontiac.com/tech/0410pon_butler/

Also lets keep the S----y comments to ourselves.

Bob

This (396cid I think)SBF mustang managed to pull a 6.80@206mph in Vegas this fall with only a single turbo on methanol. At 2400lbs + driver, that's very close to 2000hp by my guess.
http://www.speedzonemagazine.com/zones/streetzone/04street/04sept/cpsa%20sept/images/DSC02146.jpg

I never said it wasn't doable. http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

Nevermind.

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by AJ_72:
OK. I was a little too sarcastic, but if the guy has really built that engine and knows that much about it, why are you (craggar) asking people on this board? Shouldn't he (the guy with the 2100 hp engine) know what to do?</font>

IMHO, its always best to make informed decisions.

Cragger did the same thing I would have done, solicit other members and other sources for their opinions and experieances, then make an informed decision.
I would never make a decision based on what 1 person thinks/says, there are just to many "Know it Alls" and "Internet Mechanics" out there offering up poor and sometimes wrong info.

I have no knowledge or experieance on turbos or fuel injection, so I can't/won't comment on the setups.


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70 Camaro Z/28 with 461cu.in. BBC & OD Auto, 3.31 12 bolt posi.

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by gregh:
This (396cid I think)SBF mustang managed to pull a 6.80@206mph in Vegas this fall with only a single turbo on methanol. At 2400lbs + driver, that's very close to 2000hp by my guess.
http://www.speedzonemagazine.com/zones/streetzone/04street/04sept/cpsa%20sept/images/DSC02146.jpg </font>

I forget the guys name but they are friends and I think that Dave is looking to do the same as him.




[This message has been edited by craggar (edited January 06, 2005).]

Dal Sangha is his name, Mission, BC is his home track.

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by gregh:
Dal Sangha is his name, Mission, BC is his home track.</font>

That's right and there's another guy with a super charger that is running 7.0 in a Mustang as well Raj I think.