Ive got a 350 block .040 over with two bolt mains hoping for 450-500 hp street engine am i wasteing my time and money on this block? also can someone explain the differences between forged and hyper. pistons thanks for the help!by the way it is a 010 020 block thanks again i appreicate all the help and input

[This message has been edited by kid 937 (edited December 23, 2004).]

Ok.If you want you can spend the money buy some Milodon Splayed mains,have your 2 bolt block converted to a 4 bolt block.This also requires you to have your crank line bored. A 2 bolt block can take some punishment w/ a steel crank & a good set of rods.A good thing to remember is that SBC rods from the factory are forged steel also. http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/smile.gif Hope this helps.

Anyone ever use anything like this? I heard about these a while back, probably on HPTV.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7942376858&category=33616

here's an article that might help on forged vs. hyper...

http://www.beckracing.com/page11.htm

Don't listen to the local b/s-ers at the fast food joint parking lots

The 2 bolt main engines are far from bad

Really stock for stock IMO the 2 bolt is stronger than the 4 bolt main, because of the placement of the outter 2 bolts in the center 3 mains. They go into the weakest part of the block

Splayed 4 bolt mains are the only ones that are really stronger, and that aint needed till around the 1,000 HP mark

If you need the extra strenght use a 2 bolt studded block. Installed ARP main studs in the block. This will give you ALOT MORE strenght to the mains

And anyway a good oiling system is always a plus and to install a windage screen you'll need bolts with stan offs on them for the screen.

Pick up a set of ARP main studs for 2 bolt main 350 with windage tray, then get you a windahe screen from www.speedwaymotors. (http://www.speedwaymotors.) The stainless steel one

The diff in hyper and forged pistons are great...

Hypers are cast pistons with more silicon added. They are great for built up street engine and mild race engines.. The only prob with them are they are britle and if you run into detonation you could bust one or more into many little pc. The pros are they are cheaper, stronger than cast, runs a thigher pinston to bore clearance, less wear vs time., lighter weight

Forged pistons wont bust like that, they are alot stronger, but in most cases heavier and swells more, needs a loser piston to bore clearance, etc

With that said hypers are fine on any N/A street engine running the right cam/compression combo. If you know about engines, tuning etc, you can keep detontaion out of the picture and even spray 75-125 hp shot on hypers

Myself I wouldnt run hypers in high boost boosted engines (turbo, supercharger)

If i'm not wrong the diff in making of the two is forged is a chunk of metal pressed into shape under tons and tons of pressure

Where cast is melted metal poured into a mold

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by speedyrev:
here's an article that might help on forged vs. hyper...

http://www.beckracing.com/page11.htm</font>
thanks for all the help

We prepare alot of blocks for engine builders and shops all over the U.S. and Canada and after 28 years in this business we have seen 2 bolt main blocks that guys have tried to put over 400 horse to the caps walk in the registers quite a bit due to the fact there is not enough suface area look at the GM catlog they rate there 4 bolt blocks at 350 horse with standard caps and can't beleive that the 2 bolt block is more. check out this link there is a lot of good reading. http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=016286 this is what I call the great debate.

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[This message has been edited by CNC BLOCKS (edited December 22, 2004).]

2 bolt mains and forged pistons are more than up to the task of the power levels you want.

I've seen a LOT of power thrown at the 2bolt blocks and survive, but if our already at +.040, why not start fresh. To make 500horse your going to have a considerable chunk of change in the motor for reliable parts. I would suggest you start with a good seasoned 4bolt block at +.030. Then you would have 2 more bore & hones before the block is used up. To fully prep a block is easily $500 (bore, hone, deck, bake, cam bearings etc). If yu start at +.030 you have +.040 and +.060 to go with that investiment. Starting at +.040, you only have one more chance before your looking for another block.

The 'ideal' would be a aftermarket block like the Motown and Dart that is heads above the GM production castings. They come with a healthy price tag, but worth it.

Second best IMO would be a seasoned 010/020 2bolt properly fitted with splayed mains.

Third would be a seasoned 4bolt 010/020 casting

Then any 4bolt with lesser alloy

and finally a low alloy 2bolt

Chck the front of you block (near the cam gear)for the "010" or "010/020" raised in the cast. If it's not one of the high alloy blocks, I'd say start looking for one that is, and will clean up at +.030, with the bolt configuration you want.

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<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by hhott71:
2 bolt mains and forged pistons are more than up to the task of the power levels you want.</font>

Using a two bolt block where a 4 bolt should be used is like buying a peice of air hose rated at 150 pounds and using 250 pounds of air. HOW RELIABLE IS IT NOW??


Unless you now more then GM they only rate there 4 bolt blocks at 350 horse at 5700 rpm. Unless 2 bolt blocks are better then 4 bolt blocks, Look in the GM PERFORMANCE BOOK this may give you a better understanding what to expect to get out of the the blocks they produce.

A lot of the shops and engine builders we ship blocks to are serious about what they do.

Some of the 2 barrel circle track engines we build run 480 horse and if I told the customer we were using a two bolt block I think I would lose a customer over that and some of these engines run between 20 to 24000 dollars a peice so we have to do the best we can to make sure that they live.

I'm sure the engine builders and shops we prepare blocks for know what seems to be the best way to have blocks prepared and none of them have asked to do a 2 bolt block for for a 500 to 600 horse apllication. Unless its splayed.

Again read the GM performace book I think they know more about blocks then you and I, And I respect the knowledge and what they have published.

After building engines for 28 years and machining blocks for a living I should have some idear what works for what horse power application. I have seen to many people try to use a 2 bolt blocks where a good 4 bolt block should have been used.

And if you can find a 010-020 block with 2482 on the center caps that would work good as those are nodular iron caps and also have the block sonic tested for cylinder wall thickness as you can't go by the core shift as we sonic test every block we buy. there are only a few that test good enough for a 500 plus horse application.


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[This message has been edited by CNC BLOCKS (edited December 22, 2004).]

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by CNC BLOCKS:
We prepare alot of blocks for engine builders and shops all over the U.S. and Canada and after 28 years in this business we have seen 2 bolt main blocks that guys have tried to put over 400 horse to the caps walk in the registers quite a bit due to the fact there is not enough suface area look at the GM catlog they rate there 4 bolt blocks at 350 horse with standard caps and can't beleive that the 2 bolt block is more. check out this link there is a lot of good reading. http://www.chevelles.com/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=016286 this is what I call the great debate.

</font>

I have read/been told about this. The article I read was about a 509 casting studded 400 sbc. The studded main was fine to a certain level but cap walk came in to play when push passed a noted HP.....

I cant come up with the number but they did not seem all that high when the cam walk started.

Just adding my 2 cents.

PS Im sure the quality of machine work and weight of parts will add to the mix.



[This message has been edited by BIGBADBOWTIE (edited December 22, 2004).]

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by BIGBADBOWTIE:
I have read/been told about this. The article I read was about a 509 casting studded 400 sbc. The studded main was fine to a certain level but cap walk came in to play when push passed a noted HP.....

I cant come up with the number but they did not seem all that high when the cam walk started.

Just adding my 2 cents.

PS Im sure the quality of machine work and weight of parts will add to the mix.
</font>

Good point on 400 blocks and and a big blocks the main cap registers are wider and have more surface area cap to block and the caps won't flex like 2 bolt caps. We have seen many 2 bolt blocks come in the shop due to the caps being loose in the registers and installing a set of splayed caps takes care of the problem.



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<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2"> We have seen many 2 bolt blocks come in the shop due to the caps being loose in the registers and installing a set of splayed caps takes care of the problem.
</font>
I went the cheap ass route,chisle to block, good to go for a few years now on the street but I'm only at 430 hp.

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geez guys....
hey let do this.. Is ther anyone out there with a 2 bolt SBC pushing 450-500hp?

In my mind there is no debate. You want 450 to 500 HP out of a small block then you start with a 4 bolt or convert a 2 bolt to a 4 bolt.

In a 450-500 HP application I would also suggest Forged. This level of power could be prone to detonation on the street and you don't want to "ring" hypers with detonation at this level. The will shatter.

A .040 block that needs new pistons is NOT a good foundation either.

My advise, walk away and find a good 400 core. making 450-500 with a 408 is much easier and more streetable.

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70 SS 454 CI Dynoed 684 HP, 702 TQ All Aluminium Fuel Injected Small Block , plus 200 - 500 HP NX nitrous system.

I have a 400 block for sale
2 bolt 010/020 markings STD bore

How about main girdles? Do they make a difference?


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//Fred
11.58@116 N/A SBC

Fred the girdle may help a little but the problen is still there is not enough suface area on a two bolt cap to block and with a lot HP they actually flex and thats what causes them to fret or have metal transfer in the registers. I wish a girdle would handle 450 to 600 horse it would save me alot of time machining registers for splayed caps and line boreing and line honing.

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