Ok the heads are back ordered - AFR 210's Race port, Intake is a Victor Jr, Rods are Manley 5.7 H Beam, Carb will be ether a 750 or 800 CFM Mec., Cam is a Comp XE290S, pistons will be ordered (JE 10.5:1) when I figure what crank I will run.

I've got a BRC 3.800" stroke crank out of a 410ci Sprint Car, Or a 4.00" Crower. How much more torque/Hp is the 4.00" stroke going to show if any? same question with the 750 vs 800-850 carb. Can I get away without a small base cam with the 3.800" stroke. I've already got the Comp XE290S. If anybody feels like playing with one of those Dyno programs, I'd like to know what kind of numbers Im looking at. Thanks guys/gals!

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Well, which crank is in better shape, and how fast are you wanting to spin this mouse ?

If its REALLY fast (more HP) then stick with the 3.8 crank. If you're wanting to haul ass (more Tq) then hit the 434. Manny's 434 was a damn nice little motor. You'd never know it by looking at it (its so small and cute) http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/wink.gif

There both ready to run.

What kind of block are you going to put these into?


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73RS/LT/427

given the 5.7 rods, you are limited to the 3.8 crank, and don't be suprized to have to machine the counterweights to work with that rod.
The 4 inch crank requires a 6 incher minimum.
Unless you are looking to build a lower RPM engine (under 6500) your heads are really too small for a 434.
Plan to have to clearance the rods and possibly run the small base circle cam with the 3.8 crank, 434's need much more work.
If you are building it with a factory block you stand a really good chance of hitting water while clearancing for rods and such.
434 will need a stroker pan.
Think of this in terms of a BBC, even the lowly base model 396 had bigger valves and intake runners in the upper 200 cc range.

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<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by rscamaro73:
Manny's 434 was a damn nice little motor. You'd never know it by looking at it (its so small and cute) http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/wink.gif </font>


WAS?? So DID he sell the '74???

UC- I'd go with the 3.800 stroke setup, for the sake of simplicity.

I would have to say that if you are building on a factory block that the 3.8" stroke is a better choice.
You need a Sportman block to really go for huge stroke in a SBC.

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1971 Camaro
383 stroker ~500HP
M21 4spd
12" brakes
16x10" Wheels
Autocross competitive
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<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by 1978LT:

WAS?? So DID he sell the '74???
</font>
Manny still has the Camaro and the Nova, but the Nova was up for sale a few weeks ago (with the Motown, 18° Brodix, 434). The Camaro went back with the GM casting 434 (HR motor) and is all back together, but i don't think he licensed it yet. Things are sort of up in the air for him right now.


70 Z UC,,, the 3.8" stroke IS going to save your sanity (and pocketbook)for sure,,,, but I keep coming back to the fact that 22 cubic inches is the same difference as between the 327 and the 350. That extra torque of the 350 in the lower rpm range sure SHINES compared to it's shorter stroke counterpart. Once you go to 6" rods you reduce the piston mass (and weight) considerably which 'should' mean a motor that is more tolerable of RPM's. IMO it's all a plus (which is exactly why I'm building a 434) but it doesn have it's own inherant problems.. Rod to cam clearance is a huge problem. The best way to resolve that is a set of Lunati ProMod 6" rods, Like mentioned, clearancing the production block is a 50/50 shot if your going to hit water. You could (and most likely will need to) do a 1/2 fill of concrete, need more head cc, and IMO more carb.
A quick input of the package in Engine analyzer says the 4" stroke is worth 32 peak ft. lbs. of torque 16 peak HP over the 3.8" he torque was a little flatter and higher in the 4000-6500 range for the 434 at 10.5:1 with 96octane fuel with a Vic Jr and a 850 carb.

So it looks like the 3.800 is the way to go. Marv, I was going with the Manley 6" rods, because our rep wants us to start selling them. He will give them to me at $450 a set VS the $560 resale price. How much do the Lunati Promod rods run? Are the 210 AFR heads too small for the 412ci motor? If so I can still upgrade to the larger runners, I just placed the order two days ago. You said the 750 would be to small, would you suggest the 850 then? I can sell the 750.

PS: So what kind of HP/Torque numbers am I looking @, I've never used one of those programs yet

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[This message has been edited by 70 Z UC (edited November 22, 2004).]

The Lunati SBC ProMod rod (http://lunaticams.com/main.cfm?page=list.cfm&criteria=14&action=list&cat=7&startrow=1&maxrows=10&afid=&) (not the severe duty) list for $648 and my machinist tells me he can get them for me at $600. There listed in Lunati's site as good to 1200HP

Anything to keep from working tonight. Sooooo...

With the 210RR (not the 100%cnc package) EA reports:
553 peak torque, 575 peak HP
431 AVERAGE tq, 482 AVERAGE HP

Swap to the AFR 220cnc packakage and:
569 peak tq, 610 peak HP
465 AVERAGE tq, 527 AVERAGE HP

BTW, the low lift #'s are really limiting things, add a set of 1.6 rockers and the tq goes up 12 3, the HP goes up 17hp

Then I put a 850dp on it and picked up another 8 # of torque and another 11HP

End result with a 3.8" stroke, 220cnc heads, 1.6 rockers,,,,
580 #' of torque, 630+ HP from 5500-6500

(BTW, right there I went back and switched to a 4" stroke http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/smile.gif 611 #' of torque, 643 HP, averages were 512 / 544 without spinning the thing over 6500)

Do keep in mind EA is a little optimistic. Not as bad as some of the other simulators, but not 'perfect'. All the above was ran with only a production water pump, and 1-7/8" headers and open exhaust. You can choke those numbers right down to disappointing with a bunch of accessories and restrictive exhaust.

I wonder what the discrepancy is between Lunati's 2002 catalogue and their website? The pro mod rod is rated at 750 hp, pro billet and associated rods, 1000 hp, and for their comparison, the H beams are 700 hp.

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I built a 388 with the 3.80 stroke crank, and I kid you not, the stock 1977 350 4 bolt block needed no clearancing, it had just enough room everywhere it needed it. I have only heard of one other instance of this and it was from someone on here. I still have that block though its in my parents basement 2500 miles away, its a keeper. Someday I am going to get that engine back together, it was a screamer! JE Ultralight pistons, reved up pretty fast for the long stroke, and I shifted it at 6800. I loved that engine!

I remember about a week ago Manny put the Camaro up for sale in the Swap Meet section, for about 30 minutes http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

So it looks like the XE290S might be holding me up as well? I also have a 306S, would that be a better choice? If not I can sell them off as well. So far the Crower 4.00" crank and the 750 are in the swap section.

I run the 306S in my 412, and really like it. This cam makes tremendous power and torque thoughout the RPM range, at least in my combo. I was still ironing out my combo by seaons' end, but so far managed to run in the 11.70's @ 115 with a 3310 Holley. A buddy who ran the 306S in a 408 ('80 Z) and ported Sportamsn II heads hit 119 mph and 11.40's several years ago. My combo is sort of based on what he did, hence my using the 306S also. I still don't have a cowl hood or double pumper carb yet, so theres lots left in this combo once I figure out what my piston issue is which cropped up on the last run of the season.



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'Silver Bullet' 1977 Z-28 413" SB
11.73 @ 115.10 and dropping...
Old Vortec combo:
12.15 @ 110.52
1989 GTA L98
Daily driver

70z uc, I think your going to find the same thing from everybody,, the AFR heads LOVE lift. When you get it up there around .650 net lift,, you've found the 'sweet spot'.

Thanks guy's looks like my for sale section is getting bigger http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/wink.gif.

Man, just looking at compression ht's. looks like the 5.7 is the only way to go for the street. 1.400 with 5.7" rod, 1.000 with the 6". The 6" would take a beating.

[This message has been edited by 70 Z UC (edited November 24, 2004).]

Before you do any work or order any parts install a 5.7 rod on a journal and make certain the counterweights will clear the wrist pin, you may be forced into cutting the counterweights in order to run the 5.7 rod. Another option is some manufacturers make a 5.850 rod.

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Custom Auto, your source for quality machine work, cores and new parts at competetive pricing right here in British Columbia 1-888-563-4050
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