For starters HAPPY FATHERS DAY to everyone!

I have had questions and needed help in the past and gotten some excellent responses. You guys know more than I do and that's why I'm asking again!

I pulled my stock 350 out of my 79 Z. It is stripped down to bare block. My block, heads, intake and Q-jet are all numbers matching and I really want to keep them that way. On this rebuild I want an all original look when done even down to the exhaust manifolds. But, I want more horsepower.

It's a California car but the air pump is not being put back on. Cause it's not in California anymore and where I'm at, I'm not worried about emissions.

The block will be dipped and fluxed to check for cracks and bored when done. The heads and intake will also be done! Now here is where I need the help.

I would like 300 or more hp. But I want to use the original block, heads, intake and Q-jet. I know this limits me but what combinations can I use on the internals? I am replacing the cam, lifters and pistons. Don't know what size cam to use. I have gotten recommendations to go with a forged flat top pistons. Do I replace the rods or use the original ones.

Do I grind the crank or would I be better off changing the crank and actually make the motor a 383 stroker?

If I do make it a 383 what combinations will work with the stock block, heads, intake and Q-jet. I plan on sending the Q-jet out to be redone. I want it re-built and re-anodized to look like new. But not sure where to send it yet!

I do plan on pulling the exhaust and making it a true dual exhaust. Now, what mufflers would be best. I want a good sound but I don't want it too loud. Just a nice rumble to make ya look and go HMMMM!

My over all goal is to have an all original looking car. It's not going to the track but it will be doing car shows and only driven on the street. But the car needs to have the balls it should have had when first built. The car needs to be what we call a SLEEPER when it's done.

The machine work will be done locally by guys I went to high school with, so I do trust their work. But, what should I expect to spend on the parts? And what are some of the better internal componenets to use?

As usual, any help is appreciated!!

The original heads are your biggest choke point. You could either have them machined to bigger valves, ported, etc. OR my favorite idea is to get a set of Dart Sportsman (or equivalent) iron heads. You'll have less money in them, they'll give you the performance that you want, and they are just all around better heads than the stock one (and they'll look stock). There are proponents here and everywhere that'll tell you to get Vortec heads and they are a good investment. BUT I'm not a big fan of them because they require special parts (intake, valve train, valve covers) that I don't have on inventory. IMHO, until you build up an inventory of the Vortec parts and the cost of the Vortec parts come down, stick with the OLD easily found inexpensive combinations that every vendor in the world has.

Rotating assembly: either build an over bored 350 (which is the least expensive way to go). No matter what engine you build, I'd advise you to get reconditioned rods (resized on both ends, shot peened, magnifluxed, and aftermarket bolts), flat top pistons (for the street) and have your crankshaft checked for straightness & the journals checked out for concentricity & wear. OR you could buy a 383 kit for your 350 block (400 crank, rods, and pistons). Much more power from it as there is NO substitution for cubic inches but it may cost more and put a strain on your budget.

Intake: for the street, the Q-Jet cast iron intake is OK BUT for an investment of under $150 you can get a better aluminum intake that will not only perform better but save about 15# too. Keep the Q-Jet carb as there is, IMHO, more reliable or performs better on the street than an Edelbrock/Carter or Holley.

Exhaust: the most forgotten part of an engine build. Consider getting a decent dual exhaust with street mufflers. DO NOT MAKE THE MISTAKE OF GETTING LOUD MUFFLERS THAT ATTACT THE COPS==SEE FUN AND BIBS. IMHO, 2 1/4" dual exhaust is about as big as you need on the street. Make sure that it has an H or X pipe--it make free HP and mellows/takes that annoying POP out of the exhaust. Hedders should be considered AND MAKE SURE THAT YOU BUY GOOD COPPER GASKETS TO GO WITH THEM. Plan on tightening them once a week for as long as you own them and budget for plug wires quite often too (even with heat shielding material on the wires). IMHO, cast iron manifolds are still the way to go on the street unless you're into tinkering with your car constantly.

Cam: I firmly believe that less is more when it comes to cams. Sure it's nice to have a "rumpty rump" cam to impress everyone till you have to deal with all the BS that goes with it: low intake vacuum at idle = no power brakes, having to put a Holley carb on (more expense and say goodbye to any decent gas mileage), adjusting valves all the time etc. We personally used both the Edelbrock Performer cam and the Comp Cams 268H cams in many of our vehicles with ZERO issues with all the afore mentioned nightmares. You could consider a hydraulic roller cam but that is a lot of money to invest for some HP gain (SEE BIBS).

Important things to consider with any engine build: log book, goal, budget, time, machine shop, parts, fun, and most important, AVOID THE BIBS AT ALL COST!

Log book: make a log book. Start with all of the items on the important things list. Keep a steady update of your progress (and setbacks) for future reference.

Goal: sit down and make a "goal" list. You want to have a street engine so set parameters for your engine that can meet that goal. Good street cam, street carburetor, street cam, decent heads (the most important investment you can make--everything that goes in and out of an engine has to go through the heads). Don't forget the transmission and rear end (put them in your budget too). Higher stall converter (SEE BIBS), posi traction and possibly new gears (SEE BIBS) should be considered.

Budget: wouldn't we all love to have a $25K engine like they get for free on Hot Rod TV! Be realistic. If you can afford good heads, then get them. If you can't, talk to your machine shops customers to see if they have successfully modified stock heads--understand that any machine work on the heads costs money so sometimes it's better to buy new. Nice to have a storker engine but there are millions of streetable 355 and 358 (.030" and .060" overbored 350s) out there that are producing way over 300 HP too.

Time: how much time have you got to build up your $$$/budget, for your time to assemble the engine, to port the heads yourself (if you can, it'll save you money but if you goof them up....). Double budget (shit happens) and triple your time ESPECIALLY if you don't have a plan.

Machine Shop: DO NOT TAKE THE WORD OF THE MACHINE SHOP THAT THEY CAN DO ANYTHING YOU ASK. Ask for a list of references/customers and listen to what they have to say. Ask questions of the shop and the customers and LEARN. Shop around if you can. I travel 60 miles away for my machine work as the three local shops just don't fit me. One does great work IF you're part of the stock car crowd--I don't do left turns, anyone can go left, it takes a man to keep a car going straight. The second one is a hit and miss outfit--sometimes he does good work, sometimes he doesn't. The third is a thief--had a set of BBC heads done by him, charged me for hardened seats, valve job, and setting valve spring heights--didn't happen. So be careful where you go. Travel if you have too. Invest once to have it done right. I also clean and check everything after getting the parts back. I didn't ONCE and it burned the bearings out on a 350 from the get go.

Parts: you get what you pay for. I shop around a lot for bargains BUT not all inexpensive parts are worth it. I use Jegs, Summit, PAW, and most of all Northern Autoparts. BUT I also try to support my local speed shop too if I can (if his parts are within a reasonable range of mail order parts, I buy them from him).

Fun: the idea is to go fast BUT don't forget that having fun is more important. Who wants to spend time adjusting this and rebuilding that, and having to spend a million $$$ a gallon for gas because the engine won't run on pump gas, or no brakes (nice to go fast, but real nice to have good braking power when you really need it!). SEE BIBS.

BIBS = bigger is better syndrome. It is to be avoided because of the cost and hate & discontent it causes. Analogy: if a 600 cfm Holley is good, then a 1050 Holley Dominator MUST be better. If a 268 duration cam is good, then a 320 duration cam HAS to be better. NOT. Less is more. Trust me on this.

Opinions: you know the old saying, opinions are like anal orifices--everyone has one. All of the above is my opinion(s) do digest it as that.

well king,, if it were mine,, with your goals in mind,, i'd sugguest getting past the "gotta use the stock log exhaust manifold" part. that's the big choke on the stockers in the first place. good full dual exhaust behind them also like you mentioned. cost alot of $$ to get the stock logs to flow by porting them. might as well go with headers.

the stock heads and intake are good to 5000-5500 no problem,, and with a little bit of pocket work and a performance valve job(3-angle/back cut valves),, they'll do ok for what your looking for. not the best for performance choices,, but for keeping your matching numbers,, they can be worked over some. also,, the quadrajet doesn't have a problem giving you the flow for that rpm range either. they can be tuned. so,, for a street car,, that's fine in my opinion.

butt,,, doesn't matter how much air/fuel you get in there,, if you can't get it out,, it won't really do much good. headers aren't so bad,, especially if you're not using it as a daily driver. as a weekend cruiser/street fun driver,, the 383 idea would be ok with the stock 400 rods and a 350 reverse dome piston to keep quench,, and the open chamber head like what came on the 79's. a piston designed to give a compression ratio arround 9.0:1 with a 268HE comp cam (with matching springs set up) or something in that range. would be torquey and work well with a small 2200 stall or so and 3.23-3.42 gears. trans-go shift kit or tci trans-scat shift kit. a stock 400 rod 383 like that isn't a major issue with cam to rod bolt/rod clearance using the smaller street cam profiles. pretty easy to build up/put together without alot of grinding involved. less expensive/work in the long run,, to buy a balanced rotating assembly that comes with the front damper and flywheel.

or a flat top 350 with like parts. not using nitrous or spinning over 5500rpms,, i wouldn't spend the extra $$ for forged pistons at that level though. cast will do fine. even stock rod bolts will work ok.

personally i like the non chambered mufflers,, something with a straight through design. i think,, and from what i've read,, the dynomax ultra flows are getting good reviews for flow numbers, and sound pretty good too. sound is second for me,, i feel that they better perform well. function before form for me. i've got a new set i'm ready to try.

maybe an H-pipe or an X-pipe setup if you can swing it. maybe some underdrive pulleys for the front of the engine. both of these 2 mods together are enough that you will surely feel it.
just my opinion. hope it helps. andy

Thanks for your advice. I have actually read your responses numerous times and actually printed them out. I will be going to talk to my friends that are doing the machining. Besides doing machine work they also wrench on cars and their primary portion of their garage is trannies.

For starters, my first question is this. If I go with a 383 kit, will I have to change the heads, intake or any other components? I really want to stay with the original parts.

If the above answer is yes and I have to change intake, heads etc. then I will not go with the 383 kit.

Heads - Yes, I plan on having a complete valve job done and planned on doing a back cut on the valves. Cause you guys are right, everything runs through the heads.

Exhaust - I'm going to seriously look at keeping the stock log style exhaust manifolds. The guys doing my machining are also friends so if I decide to have them ported I may get a better deal than most. I'm glad you mentioned the H or X set up cause I didn't even think about that.

Cardinal, you talked about time, budget, log book and the such. Good ideas there. When it comes to the originality of the car, I may spend a little more $$ than I probably should but in the long run I think it may be worth it. Hell, time is endless.

Transmission is out of the car and I am going to have that gone through and a different torque converter put on with the increase in hp just to be safe. I'd hate to not address it now and have to change it later. The rear end is a 3.42non-posi but that may be changed to a posi after the rebuild is done.

The block and all other components will be dipped and fluxed to make sure the integrity is good. I do have to have the block bored cause I can feel some irregularities in the cylinder walls. I figure just go .030 over and be done with it. The comp cam sounds good to me and both of you guys are on the same page with that which is good. No, I don't want the Rumpty rump either, I want a nice smooth mellow sound.

74 Rat - Instead of having the cast crank checked, you think it would be cheaper to replace it with a new one? Is that replacement a cast or steel crank? Not sure which way to go with this one. Do I have the original crank checked and ground if needed or do I just replace it with a steel crank? What would be the cost difference and because of the increased hp, would a steel crank be the better way to go, even if it costs a little more?

Q-jet stays. Now I just have to find someone to rebuild it and reanodize it.

The biggest question is whether the 383 kit forces me to replace the heads, intake, carb, etc.

Hey, thanks for your help

King,

I had my 1980 Z28 engine rebuilt and I also wanted to keep it stock or stock looking. My budget allowed me to take my original number matching 350 block and stroke it to a 383. I kept the original heads, original Quadrajet carb, original intake manifold, and original exhaust manifolds. I asked the machine shop to spend a little time to port the heads. I did not want to spend a lot of money on the original heads since I plan on going with a nice set of aluminum head in the future.

I had the engine's rotating assembly balanced. It was an extra $150 but I wanted it balanced for long term durability.

I called Comp Cams tech line and explained to them I wanted to keep my power brakes and A/C but wanted better performance in a new cam. They advised me which cam to order. I also went with a roller cam. It was a big expense but the cam is the engine's "brain" so I was willing to spend the extra money.

Since I had spent the extra money to go 383 and roller cam I went with roller rocker arms. They are also from Comp Cams, and I wanted a full roller engine. Anytime you reduce friction, you have the potential to increase fuel economy and horsepower.

I had Dynamax mufflers and a Pypes exhust system with the X cross pipe installed two weeks ago.

Good luck with your engine build!

I just decided to check this forum before I went to the machine shop. Glad I did. You answered the questions I really needed answered. What comp cam and roller rockers did you go with?

383 sounds like the way to go!!

I'm off to see the wizard, well the machine shop guys anyway. Gotta go get some prices. If there is anything else you think of that you did that worked well let me know. Like, did you change the rear-end gearing, upgrade the trannie, etc.

Thanks KING!!

Just got back from the shop. Gonna do the 383 kit. When I spoke to the owner Tom, who happens to be a high school friend, and mentioned the 350 bored or doing a 383, he had a huge shit eatin grin and said "Oh, you'll definitely like the 383"

Anyway, they are going to go through the block, heads and intake. Everything will be cleaned and fluxed. The heads will be ported, the intake will be cleaned and bead blasted along with the exhaust manifolds. They will make sure everything is balanced. They also agreed that the comp cam is the way to go.

I asked them about the roller cam and they said that the roller cam would be an increase of about $500 and the increase in hp would not be that great. So, I'm not sure if it would be worth the money to go with a roller cam and roller rocker arms. They also would rather go with a dish piston instead of flat top. Due to the type of gas and the fact that the car will be on the street only.

They use Eagle kits for the 383. Does anyone have any input on the Eagle kits or have you used them. They are also gonna go through the transmission and upgrade the torque converter.

Now, to save some money, I am putting everything together. And the total is
approximately $1800 to $2000. This is for the 383 kit and them to do all of the machine work. Soooooo, does this sound reasonable to you guys??


Thanks KING

King,

The Comp Cam tech line recommended part number 12-423-8. It is grind number CSXR276HR-10. I told them I did not want anything radical and wanted to use my power brakes and A/C. My car is not a drag car and will only be used for pleasure driving on public roads.

Call me stubborn but I was not going to rebuild my engine without going to a roller camshaft and roller rocker arms. That is what the new generation Detroit V8 engines use and I wanted nothing less. I know it will increase horsepower. The amount of horsepower increase is debatable. I also know it made better economic sense to not have upgraded to a roller motor and put that money in a good set of trick heads but the trick heads will be added to my car sometime in the near future.

My 383 uses Comp Cams' Magnum Roller Rocker Arms. My machine shop used a Eagle kit to convert the 350 into a 383 V8.

I kept the original THM 350 transmission and replaced it with a TCI Turbo-Hydramatic 200-4R automatic overdrive transmission. I went with the lockup torque converter. I do not remember the stall speed but I did a lot of calling between TCI tech line and Comp Cam tech line to match the stall speed of the torque converter to the roller camshaft.

The gears are the factory 3:42s.

The $1800-$2000 is inline with the amount I paid.

Good luck!

sounds like you figured it out. i think you'll be very happy with the 383. probably the better way to go. a reverse dome piston will be good and keep the quench. intakes and heads interchange and don't necessarily need to be swapped. although,, you'll be leaving some power on the table using the stock heads. there are better choices out there for sure. but,, sometimes you gotta do what you can as you go along.

heard story's about the eagle cranks comming in with size's all over the place. sounds like they'll check it out before you get it.

prices sound pretty dang good with a trans worked over in that mix,, and a crank rotating assy also. is that with a complete engine kit including the 383 crank kit rotating assy/cam/lifters/springs/locks/retainers/rocker arms/pushrods/gaskets/bearings/oil pump/timing set/pistons/rings.....and the machine work with porting everything?? if so,, really really good prices!!!

As far as I know that price includes everything. I talked to them about a package deal. I will have a written price estimate outlining all the work on Tuesday. I figured if I was at roughly $2,000 that would be a good price.

Sounds like all I have to pay for up front is the Eagle kit. Told the guys at the shop (which are also friends) that I had enough money stashed at home to pay for the whole job, BUT, that money is for my Sturgis trip in August and I wasn't touching it. They said no problem, guess I can pay for the machine work as I go. Which works good for me.

Now the fun begins, I need to clean the engine compartment and start repainting parts so everything looks brand new. I was looking at using the Marine Clean that everyone has been talking about. Do you know if it can be purchased locally or does it have to be ordered?

Thanks again for your help

KING