In my quest for a killer engine, I always thought about having a blower sticking up out of the hood, but I'd have to buy new heads...again because of my 10:1. Not want I want to do. But! I was on the Procharger website and their entry level supercharger *without* an intercooler made 40% more HP on a 10:1CR small block with a 7lb boost. They calculate HP gains by taking your base HP and multiplying that by the % of HP increase at a certain boost. Since 10:1 without an intercooler will only handle about 7-8lbs, that equals 40% increase on their chart. If I have 405HP (I should be close to that), and 10:1 CR, add a Procharger with the same 7lb boost, I should get around 40%. 405 x 40% = 162... added to 405 = 567HP on 93 Octane for $1999. And, in the future if I added an intercooler and lowered my comnpression the HP substantially increases up to a 825HP potential (and thats just the potential for the cheapest, entry level supercharger). So assuming someone already had a strong enough rotating assembly and proper flowing fuel pump ....doesn't the entry level Procharger sound like a better, more cost effective, and easier route than turning a 350 (ZZ4) into a 383?
http://www.procharger.com/chevy.shtml

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v243/shawntmartin/pickup_uhbig.jpg

How much do those cost?

well, it wouldn't really be cheaper, since a 383 kit can be had for less than a grand.. but it would certainly be quicker, I think.

Only problems I see are
1: hypereutectic pistons in the zz4
2: fuel system (boost referenced? sealed up carb?)

On the whole, I think these little superchargers are awesome. Go for it!

Haha why not do both :D

We have only had one customer engine that wanted to run high compression (and 10:1 is high compression) with a supercharger (just like that) on pump gas.

BOOM

In the long run I think your pocketbook would appreciate setting up the blower system correct for a street application.

Have at it though as the dyno pulls we have done with mild setups have easily reached 600 HP, and that's a TON on my conservative SAE corrected dyno.

motors with higher compression and blowers can be done you just need to keep the engine out of detonation. safe timing and fuel curves go a long way.
as does properly sealing the head to the block with quailty gaskets and fastners. Also you can run boost and nitrous on hyper pistions reliably without failure. it's all about the tune and not pushing past the limit of the parts. I know many hyper piston engines that have thousands of street miles and alot of track time on them pushing 10 or more lbs of boost. I pushed 225 horse worth of nitrous throug a hyper pistoned 302 in my old mustang for 2 yrs with out a failure then sold the engine still running just fine. granted forged pistons are better for power adder applications because they can handle detonation and super high cylinder pressures better but they're not nessary in every application.

Haha why not do both :D

And if I had the money, you damn right I would! Forged 383 assembly and a Procharger. Actually... I will have this someday. It may take a few years for the funds, but thats what I'm working towards.

well, it wouldn't really be cheaper, since a 383 kit can be had for less than a grand. On the whole, I think these little superchargers are awesome. Go for it!
Yea, but when it comes to in depth engine block building... I will probably have to pay my local guy. I don't have the experience to get the tolerances just perfect.

We have only had one customer engine that wanted to run high compression (and 10:1 is high compression) with a supercharger (just like that) on pump gas. BOOM

About the compression, I'm using the thinnest gaskets avaiable (besides shims) to get my 10:1. I'm actually at about 9.9:1. If I throw on a set of gaskets that are the same thickness as the ZZ4 I'd be about 9.3:1. Procharger says I could use about 11psi at 9.3:1CR. But if I stayed at the 7psi I was originally going to use with the 10:1. I think it would work fine. Its way below what Procharger says is safe limits.
Heres their info:

GO TO PAGE 24 http://www.procharger.com/pdf/Chevy.Prod.bb.pdf

By the way, what were the compressions of the engines that went BOOM? What psi when it happened? Were they using a forged kit? Timing correct? Just curious...



.

A nitrous kit is only ~$500. You can fill a lot of bottles for $1500.

Nitrous is only adding power at full throttle. The supercharger is full time, all the time.


CON: When the bottle is empty your out of luck and I'd have to drive an hour, round trip, just fill this thing again. Kind of a pain in the butt.

CON: To accommodate the faster burn rate nitrous produces, timing must be retarded approximately 2 degrees per 50 horsepower the system produces. This leaves the vehicle sluggish and engine efficiency is greatly reduced. Unless I buy another distributor and timing control. Mmmmm? nah.

And, $50 to fill a bottle 40 times is $2000. The supercharger is paid off!

CON: I'm driving along, punch the throttle and hit the Nitrous.....

My electric fuel pump dies at the right time, or I don't realize my fuel gauge sending unit breaks, so my gas gauge says 1/2 full but is really on Empty and I run out of fuel..... BOOM in both cases. Nitrous may be safe and reliable under normal conditions, but its just seems like its too easy for things to become "not normal". Then things get dangerous in a hurry.

If Nitrous is so safe, reliable, and user friendly, then i wonder why the automakers don't make cars that come standard with a kit installed. Factory cars have come with turbos and superchargers... but not nitrous. To me, its like playing with fire. Safe, but can burn you even with the smallest mistake.

I agree on N2O too much of a chance for someone like me I just wanna go out and enjoy not worry about fuel pressure! iM 100% STOCK IGNITION AND FUEL SYSTEM AND THAT KEEPS IT SIMPLE, NA power is there all the time. Although I have absolutely nothing against it (helluva lot faster) if thats your thing just not for me kinda like your saying dont want to bother with bottles or watching the fuel system or plugs.

What kind of motor would you be putting this on? On a 10:1 compression motor with lbs. of boost your effective compression would be between 14.1-15.4. You had better have good pistons and a good lower end to handle it. Plus you would defiantly need a way to control detonation like a boost retard or alcohol/water injection.

I ran 6 pounds of boost on my 383 with 11 to 1 compression. Of course it was a race car and I also ran 115 octane gas so........................ But blowers are awesome! I also shifted it at 6800 rpm. Man I miss that engine! Ran awesome but would eat up a set of bearings every 40 passes! :eek:

What kind of motor would you be putting this on? On a 10:1 compression motor with lbs. of boost your effective compression would be between 14.1-15.4. You had better have good pistons and a good lower end to handle it. Plus you would defiantly need a way to control detonation like a boost retard or alcohol/water injection.

It would be a 383 stroker with a forged rotating assmebly. The problem I forsee is, when I buy the 383 kit I could get lower compression pistons but I won't have enough money for the supercharger at that point so I'd be driving around with 8.5-9 :1 compression for Lord knows how long. But if I don't go with the supercharger thing, then I want to buy 10.5-11:1 pistons.
It would be a whole lot easier to just go with the high compression engine and be done with it. I don't know what I'm going to do...:rolleyes:

And I don't want to have to deal with this:
Ran awesome but would eat up a set of bearings every 40 passes!

How fast do you want to go? That's the main question. You can make an 11:1 383 run mid 11's on motor. I'm doing it with a pretty straight forward combination. I thought about the procharger thing on my current motor as well, but decided it would cost too much...I would never get it done. Supposedly you can run methynall injection and an intercooler and get away with 10-12lbs on an 11:1 motor. If you KNOW that you want a supercharger and are starting from scratch, then go for low compression right now. I bet my motor with 9:1 would still run high 11's - low 12's. Then low 10's with the blower. Mid 11's is rollbar territory. Do you want to have to go that route?

Yea, I'll probably just stick with a higher compression 383. no power adders. I just want to leave all of these new cars in the dust. New cars meaning 2007-2009 Mustangs, Challengers, Suburu WRX's Turbos, Vettes.

Unfortunately, there are quite a few new cars that are getting closer to the 11.49 rollbar requirement...that's why it was changed from 11.99 to 11.49. Hell, a new Z06 can run 11's all stock with 10 second MPH. Same goes for a Viper. A regular C6 vette can run mid-low 12's with a good driver. The main difference between us and them is the launch. Those cars are meant for cornering. If you get in a race with one from a punch, then watch out. Off the line is where its at to win against those guys.

Disgustingly fast!! Thats why I started looking at the supercharger. Geez, have you seen the 2009 Corvette? just about unbeatable. 600+HP, 0-60 in 3.5sec, 215mph. Its supposed to be called either the Blue Devil, Z07, or the Corvette SS. Viper Killer. Of course the Viper will upgrade too, i suppose.

Poor Ford, they got a 500HP Mustang that won't go under 13 sec. with an average driver. Professional, or experienced drivers can get 12.8.
One good thing though (well, at least for the new Camaro), the more HP they put into the competetion, the more HP the new Camaro will get in up coming years. But, the more money I'm gonna have to spend to keep up:mad:


Is this the first time in history that gas prices have been this high and car makers are still producing 400, 500, 600HP!?! No mid-seventys crisis this time, or what?

The difference now a days is that the family cars/suv's are getting 12-15mpg and the sports cars are getting over 25-30mpg. Complete reversal from 30 years ago.

Why not put these "sports car" engines in the family SUVs then? Geez, the average 6 cylinder SUV engine isn't over 250HP and they're getting 17MPH. Put one of these V8 300HP+, 25MPG engines in. Like Mercedes, and Lexus do. I know you may have to pay a little more but I think people would be willing to pay it when they feel that performance. Or, just find away to get more MPG out of a 220HP motor.

Why not put these "sports car" engines in the family SUVs then? Geez, the average 6 cylinder SUV engine isn't over 250HP and they're getting 17MPH. Put one of these V8 300HP+, 25MPG engines in. Like Mercedes, and Lexus do. I know you may have to pay a little more but I think people would be willing to pay it when they feel that performance. Or, just find away to get more MPG out of a 220HP motor.

Its because the sports cars weigh a hell of a lot less than the family "cars".

Nitrous is only adding power at full throttle. The supercharger is full time, all the time.


CON: When the bottle is empty your out of luck and I'd have to drive an hour, round trip, just fill this thing again. Kind of a pain in the butt.

CON: To accommodate the faster burn rate nitrous produces, timing must be retarded approximately 2 degrees per 50 horsepower the system produces. This leaves the vehicle sluggish and engine efficiency is greatly reduced. Unless I buy another distributor and timing control. Mmmmm? nah.

And, $50 to fill a bottle 40 times is $2000. The supercharger is paid off!

CON: I'm driving along, punch the throttle and hit the Nitrous.....

My electric fuel pump dies at the right time, or I don't realize my fuel gauge sending unit breaks, so my gas gauge says 1/2 full but is really on Empty and I run out of fuel..... BOOM in both cases. Nitrous may be safe and reliable under normal conditions, but its just seems like its too easy for things to become "not normal". Then things get dangerous in a hurry.

If Nitrous is so safe, reliable, and user friendly, then i wonder why the automakers don't make cars that come standard with a kit installed. Factory cars have come with turbos and superchargers... but not nitrous. To me, its like playing with fire. Safe, but can burn you even with the smallest mistake.

Not to argue, but there are some pros, especially when you already have an engine built, and it wasn't built for a blower.

-Its light weight, cheap and easy to install.
-Adjustable power levels so you only use the power level required to meet your et goal or level of traction.
-Only on when you need it, at WOT.
-Instant on, for strong 60's
-Pretty easy to put in a fuel and oil pressure switch for engine safety. If you go lean with a power adder, it isn't going to matter weather it was nitrous or a blower. You can't shut down boost with a low pressure switch.
-Use a box like a Mallory 685 to automatically retard the timing so engine runs normally.
-Ya, filling bottles is a pita, but it doesn't take a whole lot of foresight to predict how much you'll need for an event.

I'd love to get a blower myself, but wouldn't do it without (re)building the engine properly. I think the adjustability of nitrous makes it a more suitable power adder for a high compression engine

Wait til spring and I'll let you know how it works. I'm doing pretty much exactly what you want to do. 383 10/1 with a small procharger. If I have to I will run alcohol injection but want to stay away from the I/C due to room.
I built the short block originally for lots of nos in my Vega but since I sold it I figured I'd use it in my 69. It's half filled with rock block, splayed caps and forged pistons with a blower cam so it should live.