I have a 454 that I had built (complete rebuild) 3 years ago. The engine was put in the car (which wasn't finished) and started every few months and let run until it reached operating temp. I finally got the car on the road last week. When I started it, there was blue smoke coming out the exhaust (I think mostly the left side, but I don't remember) then it cleared up after about a minute of running. When warmed up, I have about 40 psi oil pressure at idle. I have about 250 miles on the car now and I've had to add 2 quarts of oil in 300 miles. At first I thought I had too much oil in the engine, so I changed the oil and put in what the pan calls for and checked the dipstick, it's correct (5 quarts plus filter according to Milodon, it's their pan). Then I did a compression check. The lowest reading was 193 and the highest was 200 so all cylinders are within 10%. When the spark plugs were pulled, 7 of the 8 plugs had oil on the threads and the electrodes and insulators on all 8 plugs varied from whitish gray, to blackish gray. Then I got a PCV system tester (to see if the intake manifold was leaking). I pulled the breather and put the tester on the hole in the valvecover, it showed it was pulling vaccum like it should. Then with the tester still in place, I went to the other side and removed the PCV valve, the indicator dropped which means there was no vaccum anymore in the valvecover (makes sense as the PCV wasn't hooked up now). Then I covered the hole on the valvecover on the PCV side and the tester indicator jumped to the red which means there's pressure (Also makes sense as now there is no room for the vaccum to escape). If there was a leak in the manifold gasket, then it should just stay down or have vaccum with the PCV removed.

One of my friends said when he built a motor with moly rings, it used to use oil all the time and got better with miles, but always used oil. I think it has moly rings, I got the engine kit from summit.

So, does anyone have any ideas of where my oil is going and if it's normal?

does the vaccuum guage stay consistent or does the needle jump? every engine we built with moly rings seats fine and hardly uses any oil at all

If you mean manifold vaccum, the gauge stays steady. At around 900 RPM, I have about 15 in of hg. At around 1100 rpm, it has almost 20 in of hg.

As for the PCV tester, it's just a ball that moves around in a round disk. When testing for vaccum, the ball was sucked up into the green zone and didn't move, then when the PCV valve was pulled from the other valve cover, the ball fell (no vaccum when PCV is pulled).

i really dont know what could cause that much oil. i know they usually burn some but not that much. dont have any leaks anywhere?

Nope, it's dry.

And if there were leaks, it wouldn't explain the oil on the spark plugs. Unless that is part of the break-in process?

Thx for the suggestions.

my cousin was getting oil on the plugs and that was his valve seals were shot, but usually if the valve seal is shot the vaccuum with fluctuate.

So I tried pulling the PCV valve and running 2 breathers. I have about 60 miles on it and it's still using oil. Any other suggestions? I'm really lost as to what to check yet and would hate to have to tear the whole engine apart. I guess the next step is to yank the intake manifold.


Oh, and I noticed smoke coming from the left exhaust (true dual with no crossover). The intake is an Edelbrock Performer RPM. Although when I pull the plugs, both sides show blackish gray?

Any help/ideas is appreciated, thx!

Moly rings should have (and from your compression test, they have) seated right away.

Things that could otherwise cause oil consumption: valve guides, valve seals (borken or missing), bad intake gasket (altough from your vacuum readings, it shouldn't be but the gasket could be leaking on the underside of the intake to cylinder head).

I'm betting valve guides and seals. You mentioned rings and all were fresh, but a bandaid on the valve guides (knurking and some new seals) would show quite quickly. A bad / cracked intake guide will suck oil like a banshee! Were the heads refurbished along with the rest of the motor (new iron guides, or bronze inserts, valves, springs, SEALS, etc??)

Moly rings seal VERY quickly but need the right finish on the cylinder wall. Maybe what your buddy is thinking of is chrome rings (which no one uses any more) took forever to seat, if they ever did. Moly faced rings and chrome rings are two VERY different animals.

Other possibility is intake gasket (and why everyone is asking about idle quality and vacuum) If you suck the bottom edge of an intake gasket into the port,,,, once the motor is up to temp and rpm the oil splash inthe lifter galley will get sucked into the intake port and smoke pretty good. The fact that 7 or the 8 plugs allshowed signs of oil consumption,, intake gasket is unlikely unless we have a bad intake / head angle or something. Massive decking, head milling or angle milling will effect the intake gasket mating surface. If there has beena lot of milling there somewhere, its something to investigate.

My suggestion,,, If the heads were refurbished along with the motor..... and with the long duration since the motor was built and no real work put to it. I'd take it out and build some cylinder pressure,, try to force the rings up against the wall and see if they seal up. (aka: drive it like you stole it and see what happens) Seriously, just ideling in the garage up to temp isn't going to do much good for the rings. You need to build some cylinder temp and pressure to really seat them in good.

The heads were done during the rebuild (bigger exhaust valves, hardened seats, pocket porting, etc), but I don't know what he did with the guides. He's a reputable engine builder and knows that knurling the guides is a waste, so I don't think he would have done that.

As for driving it harder, I have been the last 100 miles. I've also have tried downshifting to 3rd, jumping on the throttle and then quickly letting off and letting the engine slow the car (builds vaccum) which I'm told might help seat the rings. It's still using oil, although I'm not sure yet if the same amount.

A little more on the smoke out the exhaust, I noticed that the left exhaust (true duals exhaust with no crossover) smokes more than the right side as I've said above . As the engine is cold, it doesn't seem to smoke as much (with the engine cold, I barely see smoke at all in the right tail pipe; the left side is noticeable, but not a lot either). Once it warms up, the smoke is more noticeable (and then can easily be seen in the right as well as the left). Also, if left idling for 10 minutes and then I jump on the throttle, I get a cone shaped cloud out (because it's being forced out of the exhaust from the rpms) when the throttle is hit and as the throttle is released, there is no smoke at all. Then as it gets back to idle, it goes back to the level of smoke as before if not a little more. If I hit the gas again a few times after clearing it out, it still does the same thing, so I don't think it's loading up from idling, which is a common indication of bad valve seals.

Again, any more insight is appreciated. The next step will be to pull the valve covers and do new seals.

Guides, seals or leaking past the threads of a screw-in rocker stud (did you seal them up with something)? Classic symptoms- all of them. I know you think it's not that, but I bet it is.

You sound like you have a good grasp of how to go about diagnosing these problems (heck- you own a PCV valve tester which even I don't have!) so you obviously have some chops when it comes to figuring out what's going on inside an engine.

Let me offer one additional diagnostic tool that should help you narrow things down very quickly. All it requires is a fresh set of plugs. Install them as normal and drive it around long enough to get them to color up. In this case, I would think 50-100 miles should do fine with the amount of oil it's chewing up.

Pull all the plugs and keep track of which hole they came out of. Look at the center electrode porcelain of each. Does it have one spot/side that's obviously darker? If so, that indicates oil is hitting the plug from one side and baking onto it- classic symptoms if oil is coming in through the intake somehow (guides, seals, PCV, leaky intake, leaky rocker stud, etc). To diagnose for sure, put a mark on the OUTSIDE porcelain with a Sharpie that's in line with the dark area on the inside center electrode. Screw it back into the same hole it came out of and tighten normally. Does the line on the outside point directly at the intake valve of that cylinder? If so, you got dead-bang proof the oil is coming in with the intake mix somehow.

Now, if the whole electrode is oiled up, or if the dark spot points down towards the piston on each cylinder then it's coming past the rings.

Hope that helps.

I put money on the intake gasket sucking oil on bottom of ports. Kinda of common. Mine is all apart for that same thing right now.

Gonna 3 bond mine in place this time around. Ain't ever gonna leak again.

Something to do with not allot of clamping force on the bottom of port n once warm it can suck oil.

this be the stuff I was told to use


Item number: 150121186071
ThreeBond Liquid Gasket 1104

[QUOTE=mrluckies]I have a 454 that I had built (complete rebuild) 3 years ago. The engine was put in the car (which wasn't finished) and started every few months and let run until it reached operating temp. I finally got the car on the road last week. When I started it, there was blue smoke coming out the exhaust (I think mostly the left side, but I don't remember) then it cleared up after about a minute of running. When warmed up, I have about 40 psi oil pressure at idle. I have about 250 miles on the car now and I've had to add 2 quarts of oil in 300 miles. At first I thought I had too much oil in the engine, so I changed the oil and put in what the pan calls for and checked the dipstick, it's correct (5 quarts plus filter according to Milodon, it's their pan). Then I did a compression check. The lowest reading was 193 and the highest was 200 so all cylinders are within 10%. When the spark plugs were pulled, 7 of the 8 plugs had oil on the threads and the electrodes and insulators on all 8 plugs varied from whitish gray, to blackish gray. Then I got a PCV system tester (to see if the intake manifold was leaking). I pulled the breather and put the tester on the hole in the valvecover, it showed it was pulling vaccum like it should. Then with the tester still in place, I went to the other side and removed the PCV valve, the indicator dropped which means there was no vaccum anymore in the valvecover (makes sense as the PCV wasn't hooked up now). Then I covered the hole on the valvecover on the PCV side and the tester indicator jumped to the red which means there's pressure (Also makes sense as now there is no room for the vaccum to escape). If there was a leak in the manifold gasket, then it should just stay down or have vaccum with the PCV removed.

One of my friends said when he built a motor with moly rings, it used to use oil all the time and got better with miles, but always used oil. I think it has moly rings, I got the engine kit from summit.

Why not do a cylinder balance test .With a air hose & a pressure gage attached remove all the spark plugs & one by one pump the cylinders with 125 -150 PSI constant air pressure. Look at the pressure gage fo obvious differences in totals If you have a leaking ring or cylinder OR valves the pressure will be noticeable different on the bad cylinder . You can also listen for leakes from the oil fill hole and the exhaust pipes since you have seperated exhaust .PS Moly rings do require a different cross hatch honing over steel rings . Learn to read spark plugs as others have stated is another option .

Thx guys.

I did read the plugs from each of the cylinders and it does seem that the oil is on one side of the plug. However, I never thought to mark them, so I don't know if it was pointing down or up. I'll have to try.

I do own a leak down tester and that was my next step.

Thanx again and keep the ideas coming.

Hey all, I finally pulled the valve covers and at quick glance, I found my valve seals are cracked right open. They look like "C"s instead of "O"s when looking at the top. They must have cracked from the engine sitting for 3 years and only occasionally being started. So I guess I'll be replacing them. Thx for your help and ideas!

Glad you figured it out!

i'm with the guide guys,, mentioned above. classic symptoms from high idle vacuum pulling oil arround the intake guides/seals from guide wear or positive type seals that have moved/popped up off the tops of the guides,, and are riding up and down with the valve stem allowing more oil arround the valves.
that's my guess. after idling and sucking up a bunch of oil,, then you gas it and it burns it out. let it idle again,, and then more build up accumulation to burn again from the high vacuum. maybe an intake gasket,, or valve covers not baffled at the pvc valve,, but guides or seals is a big possibillity.

like marv said,, i'd get it out and load the rings in 2nd-3rd gear from say 2000-3500rpms and let off,, over and over a number of times. not using excess engine speed,, but using the load without high rpms. letting off the gas allows the rings to cool on decelleration with high vacuum. that'll eliminate the ring/cylinder prep possibillity pretty quickly. check compression again and see if it's getting better. if it stays the same,, look above the block deck for problems in the upper end/heads/intake/pcv. good luck,, keep us posted.
andy

oops,, posted above then saw the second page!!

not likely that those seals got hard and cracked from just sitting. i'd be wondering if the guides are ok now,, with no miles on those seals. it's the heat cycles that make the seals get hard over time. just thoughts.
andy

I'll add that sometimes if you have "split" or "chewed up" seals it's because your cam has enopugh lift to slam the retainer into the seal. Common problem if using positive seals and a higher lift cam on stock un-machined heads. Imagine a .490 lift cam working the guide down on top of a seal that's only got .470" of room on top of it. Like hitting a jello mold with a hammer. Splat!