Hello everybody I am a new member here. I have been reading the board for a long time but I never bothered to join untill today. This is a great board with good people and a big wealth of information. I am in some serious need of help.

Here is the situation. My father just got a tubbed 63 chevy II from a friend. It is a roller. We just sold his old 46 plymouth and pulled the fresh 350 and turbo 350 trans out of it. We are going to plant this combo into the 63 chevy II.


Ok here is where I need help. The 350 has a block code of 397004. The guy that he got the plymouth said it is out of a 72 chevelle and it has less than 100 miles on it which I belive because its so clean inside you can eat off of it. The heads are the cruddy 333882 smog heads. This is going to be purely a street car. My father wants that mean lopy sound so I am going to put a cam kit in it. What I really need to know is whats the max valve spring size (outside diameter) that will work with these heads?


Here is the cam kit I am going to throw in for him. The long duration should make it sound very nice. The valve spring in the kit are 1.430 OD and from what my measurements are with my digital caliper the ones on it now are only 1.220. Will the new springs work? If not can the valve seat pocket be machined enough for them to work?

Brand: COMP Cams
Product Line: COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Cam and Lifter Kits
Part Type: Camshaft and Lifter Kits
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,300-6,500
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 240
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 246
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 240 int./246 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 284
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 296
Advertised Duration: 284 int./296 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.507 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.510 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.507 int./0.510 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 110
Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Grind Number: CS XE284H-10
Computer Controlled Compatible: No
Lifters Included: Yes
Lifter Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Valve Springs Included: Yes
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.430 in.
Retainers Included: Yes
Locks Included: Yes
Valve Stem Seals Included: Yes
Timing Chain and Gears Included: Yes
Timing Chain Style: Double non-roller
Assembly Lubricant Included: Yes
Pushrods Included: No
Rocker Arms Included: No
Gaskets Included: No
Quantity: Sold as a kit.


http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2DK12%2D250%2D3&autoview=sku



Help I am at a loss here!!! I cant find the max I can run on these heads online any where! :confused:

Stock heads takes a 1.25" OD spring. You can go alittle bigger/smaller and still fit the stock pockets.. Like 1.22 to 1.28.

The 1.43" springs will not fit.. You can machine the spring pocket for them though, but theres a better route to go.

Howards makes some darn good 1.25" single springs that will handle up to .550" to .570" lift and they are under $50

I run a .484"/.512" lift cam and use those howard's 1.25" springs


1st one on the list. #98212 $39.95
http://www.competitionproducts.com/products.asp?dept=419



Just as a side note... Thats WAY too large of a cam for the compression that engine has.. Your looking at around a 8.3:1 or less compression engine with a cam that needs 10:1 to work.. Mileage will be awful, and it will feel like a honda 4 cyl starting off.. Power won't come on till the upper 3K rpm.

It would have been better to go smaller duration and tighter LSA to get the lope your dad wants. A 106 LSA with a 258 to 262* on intake and around 6 to 8* more duration on the exhaust side

Night rider is too right. Your dad has a bad case of the BIBS: bigger is better syndrome. Try to talk some sense into him. Call the cam company (whoever you choose) to get their recomendation. Trust me, they have spent hundreds of hours hashing their cams out. Personally, I like Isky cams for any "serious" camshafts but that's me. Crower is another good brand. Comp, Edelbrock, Howards, Ried, etc. are all good cam builders too.

Agreed with all above. The cam is only one component in the combination. If that's a low compression engine (most were by 1972) then shoving in a lump cam like the XE284 will turn it into a pig, although it will sound mean. Honda Civics will run right past you.

Also, figure on a 3000 stall converter in the trans to work with that cam as well- a stock converter the thing will barely move the car for the first 100 feet.

Thanks alot for the help guys. I kind of figured it would be a pig down low. After looking some more how would this cam do?


http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA%2DK12%2D246%2D3&autoview=sku



Brand: COMP Cams
Product Line: COMP Cams Xtreme Energy Cam and Lifter Kits
Part Type: Camshaft and Lifter Kits
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 1,800-6,000
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 230
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 236
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 230 int./236 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 274
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 286
Advertised Duration: 274 int./286 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.487 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.490 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.487 int./0.490 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 110
Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Grind Number: CS XE274H-10
Computer Controlled Compatible: No
Lifters Included: Yes
Lifter Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Valve Springs Included: Yes
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.254 in.
Retainers Included: Yes
Locks Included: Yes
Valve Stem Seals Included: Yes
Timing Chain and Gears Included: Yes
Timing Chain Style: Double non-roller
Assembly Lubricant Included: Yes
Pushrods Included: No
Rocker Arms Included: No
Gaskets Included: No
Quantity: Sold as a kit.




When I get home from work I am going to call comp cams and ask them what they suggest.

That looks like a more streetable cam. BUT I still say call the cam manufacturers to get their recomendations.

Lammy works for a cam company so talk to him too. He has a ton of knowledge when it comes to cams.

XE262, better all around choice, Cpmp 981-16 springs should be a drop in with those heads other than having to eliminate the exhaust rotators. Will have the tone you want but still have driveability.

Thanks alot for all the help guys! I just got off the phone with comp cams and the guy told me to go with this cam. He said it would give a nice rough idle and would work ok with my low compression.

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CCA-K12-212-2



Brand: COMP Cams
Product Line: COMP Cams Magnum Hydraulic Cam and Lifter Kits
Part Type: Camshaft and Lifter Kits
Cam Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 2,000-6,000
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 230
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 230
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 230 int./230 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 280
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 280
Advertised Duration: 280 int./280 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.480 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.480 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.480 int./0.480 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 110
Intake Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.000 in.
Grind Number: CS 280H-10
Computer Controlled Compatible: No
Lifters Included: Yes
Lifter Style: Hydraulic flat tappet
Valve Springs Included: Yes
Outside Diameter of Outer Spring (in): 1.254 in.
Retainers Included: Yes
Locks Included: Yes
Valve Stem Seals Included: Yes
Timing Chain and Gears Included: Yes
Timing Chain Style: Double non-roller
Assembly Lubricant Included: Yes
Pushrods Included: No
Rocker Arms Included: No
Gaskets Included: No
Quantity: Sold as a kit.




So what do you guys think about this cam?

For stock heads, I don't care much for the single pattern profile.

The exhaust ports are weak on the SBC heads, so using a dual pattern (more exhaust duration and lift than intake side) will help to speed up the exhaust flow out of the heads.

and still IMHO that's too much duration for that compression

If it tells you anything.. My 355 has 10.18:1 and I run a 216/228* @ .050" 272/284* adv. cam

For yours I would look into one of the "268" cams.

For stock heads, I don't care much for the single pattern profile.

The exhaust ports are weak on the SBC heads, so using a dual pattern (more exhaust duration and lift than intake side) will help to speed up the exhaust flow out of the heads.

and still IMHO that's too much duration for that compression

If it tells you anything.. My 355 has 10.18:1 and I run a 216/228* @ .050" 272/284* adv. cam

For yours I would look into one of the "268" cams.


How about if I were to bolt on a set of fully worked 2.02 valve double hump heads with 64cc chambers? Would that help some? Im not sure of the compression because I didnt build the motor myself. I assume it is either dish or flat top pistons and with those cruddy 76cc heads it should be between 8:1 to 8.5:1. Assuming this what would that jump the compression to if I were to install 64cc heads?

yeah the 62 to 64 cc double hump heads would be great.. Compression will be between 9.5 and 9.8 with 64 cc (depending on pistons, head gaskets) and over 10:1 with 62 cc

Mine comes out to 10.18:1 with 4.030" bore, undecked block, pistons .025" in the hole, speed pro 4 vr flat tops, 4.100 x .015" head gaskets and 62cc #462 double hump heads.

It would have been 9.78:1 with above and 64cc heads

What you really want to do in this case is narrow down the lobe seperation while keeping the duration under control
I have a cam I like to use in street cars that want the chuga chuga idle without ruining driveability

Isky 201271/281-8
221/232@050 .465/.485 lift on a 108 Lobe Seperation

It will get you a bit of rattle, but still keep the powerband in the 1500-6000 range.

yeah the 62 to 64 cc double hump heads would be great.. Compression will be between 9.5 and 9.8 with 64 cc (depending on pistons, head gaskets) and over 10:1 with 62 cc

Mine comes out to 10.18:1 with 4.030" bore, undecked block, pistons .025" in the hole, speed pro 4 vr flat tops, 4.100 x .015" head gaskets and 62cc #462 double hump heads.

It would have been 9.78:1 with above and 64cc heads


Cool thats kind of what I was thinking. That would be a good street combo I think. When I swapped the double humps off my 383 and replaced them with Brodix track 1 heads I dropped over a half a second off my 1/4 times. I had the double humps flow bench tested before I installed them and at .600 they flowed 247 on the intake if memory serves me correct. My worked track 1 heads flow right at 300.

This is the cam in my 13:1 6" rod 383 stroker. It is way to small and is killing my 383. I am thinking about getting the same solid roller I had in my 355. It was a lunati with .634/.650 and that SOB screamed!

http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN%2D110981&autoview=sku


Brand: Crane Cams
Product Line: Crane Saturday Night Special Camshafts
Part Type: Camshafts
Cam Style: Mechanical flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 4,000-7,000
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 252
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 260
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 252 int./260 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 288
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 296
Advertised Duration: 288 int./296 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.536 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.554 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.536 int./0.554 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 106
Intake Valve Lash: 0.026 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.026 in.
Computer Controlled Compatible: No
Grind Number: F-252/3574-2S-6
Quantity: Sold individually.

Try Elgin's .600" lift Z-28 type springs from here IF THEY will work??????????

http://www.midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_mini.php?id=84

I have the kit set in my dresser drawer in my bedroom now for my next junk301 engine for a 280/246, 108/108, .500"/.500" net lift solid cam using 1.6 ratio rockers!!!!

He, He!!

I'm gonna shift the little short stroke bugger at 8,000 rpm and above!!!

pdq67

Ok guys I have one last question(s) and I will be done.

I have decided to throw some fully worked fresh double humps on. They should flow better than the 882 heads and jump the compression up nicely.

So here is what I am thinking

350 that is .030 over and not decked
Forged flat top trw pistons with 4 valve reliefs
Fully worked over 2.02/1.60 double hump heads
Mr Gasket ultra seal gasket set with .038 compressed head gaskets
Comp 280H cam and lifters 2,000 to 6,000 power band and nice rough idle which is what we are after


Now my question is should I use 1.5 or 1.6 roller rockers or even a 1.5/1.6 combo? The lift of the cam is .480 so I was wondering if I went with 1.6 what would that make the actual lift?

If I did the split rocker option that would make the exhaust side a bigger lift and slightly more duration which would in essence turn the cam into a split ratio cam and aid the flow on the exhaust side a bit.


Anyway what do you guys think about this combo? I am trying to go on the ultra cheap for a streetable weekend motor that makes decent power and sounds nasty. It will have a 2,800 stall converter, 31" tall tires and 4.10 gears.

The 1.6 rocker will alter the duration slightly, but its not the same effect as a ture split pattern cam.
Personally I have never been a big fan of hi-ratio rockers... I'm a believer that if you want more cam, order more cam.
That said its easy to calculate lift with rocker ratio. Small block valve lift (VL) is advertised with a 1.5 rocker. So take the VL and divide it by 1.5 to get the lobe lift; In this case
.480 / 1.5 =.32
Now multiply the lobe lift by 1.6 for the higher ratio rocker for the new valve lift
.320 x 1.6 = .512

Use 64 cc double-hump heads and .020" steel shims and you will have right at 10 to 1 CR!!

I'd install a good old Isky 270 Mega hy-cam here and go!! OR an isky Z-25 solid lifter cam

Both cams are made for this combination, imho!!

It's their 108 LCA 's that will cause the lope he wants here and these two will be POWERFUL at 10 to 1!!

Almost explosive!!

The Old Man will love it!!

I know I would AND I'm an Old Man too!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd use a solid lifter cam b/c I LIKE the valve train clatter!!! Mean's old-school POWER to me....

pdq67

Use 64 cc double-hump heads and .020" steel shims and you will have right at 10 to 1 CR!!

I'd install a good old Isky 270 Mega hy-cam here and go!! OR an isky Z-25 solid lifter cam

Both cams are made for this combination, imho!!

It's their 108 LCA 's that will cause the lope he wants here and these two will be POWERFUL at 10 to 1!!

Almost explosive!!

The Old Man will love it!!

I know I would AND I'm an Old Man too!!!!!!!!!!!! I'd use a solid lifter cam b/c I LIKE the valve train clatter!!! Mean's old-school POWER to me....

pdq67


I would go solid but I dont feel like adjusting the valves once or twice a year.


Here is a video of my car idleing at 1,500 rpm in park. :bowtie:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5438345282970814499&q=1976+camaro


This is the cam specs for my 383

Brand: Crane Cams
Product Line: Crane Saturday Night Special Camshafts
Part Type: Camshafts
Cam Style: Mechanical flat tappet
Basic Operating RPM Range: 4,000-7,000
Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift: 252
Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift: 260
Duration at 050 inch Lift: 252 int./260 exh.
Advertised Intake Duration: 288
Advertised Exhaust Duration: 296
Advertised Duration: 288 int./296 exh.
Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.536 in.
Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.554 in.
Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio: 0.536 int./0.554 exh. lift
Lobe Separation (degrees): 106
Intake Valve Lash: 0.026 in.
Exhaust Valve Lash: 0.026 in.

I adjusted mine once they became normalized and set, about every 3rd oil change and this was my daily driver back them!!

I just listened to them and when they got noisier to me, I lashed them is all.....

I flat like solid cams is all! And my 496 has a good old CC 282S in it now!! Nothing fancy at all here..

pdq67

PS., and btw, My Buddy Doc that I dearly love like the older Brother I never had, had an old '70 slant-6 Duster and it had never been lashed in like 175,000 miles!! Sucker just sewing machined and purrred like a kitten back then!!!!! It's body finally rusted out from under the engine was all....

For stock heads, I don't care much for the single pattern profile.

The exhaust ports are weak on the SBC heads, so using a dual pattern (more exhaust duration and lift than intake side) will help to speed up the exhaust flow out of the heads.

and still IMHO that's too much duration for that compression

If it tells you anything.. My 355 has 10.18:1 and I run a 216/228* @ .050" 272/284* adv. cam

For yours I would look into one of the "268" cams.

I agree, if its just a street car, 260-268 adv. duration. ~224 @ .05 at the most.

Well I just talked to Harold who was the designer of the voodoo cams and he said this about the VooDoo 60104 cam I picked for my combo.


"Patrick,

You picked the right one. It has a good lope, and depending on who's dyno you're on, excellent BHP. It is an improved version of the most popular street-n-strip cam that UltraDyne made. It will make about 420 BHP on very conservative dynos, over 480 BHP on Westtech's.
It will need a high-volume mech pump and 1/2" #8 fuel line from the tank to the carb.
The 4.10s will work just fine.

UDHarold"

The Man spoketh!!

You flat CAN'T go wrong w/ Harold's advice!!

SOTA all the way....................

I tend to go old-school is all and Harold know's it.

Only b/c I'm a conservative old crusty SOB is all..

pdq67