I'm looking to build the ultimate street SBC thumper that can still survive on 93 octane, won't have overheating problems at stoplights, or have to use a 4500 stall for a crazy, big cam. I have a ZZ4 block, TrickFlow 195cc heads, 10:1 CR, Edlebrock RPM manifold, Lazer Hydraulic Roller cam with 228/235 dur. .530lift and 106LSA, Edlebrock carb, full roller rockers, and 1 3/4 headers. I was thinking about going .030 over - 355 - while keeping 10:1 CR and have the heads ported. Right now they are 230 cfm @ .400 lift. Any guessstimates on what HP I would be getting after that? Anything I should do differently to make this a street screamer while still maintaining the goals I listed at the beginning?

unless the block needs an overbore I would leave it.

Probably around 400hp, but that motor could definitely get away with more cam - something in the mid 230's for sure.

Stroke it.

I dunno id build more towarsd torque n don't worry about HP, it will follow.

I know bloaks with 4500lb boats who run few tenths faster with stock granny gears as they got plenty of TQ. Which makes a nice street vehical that can also go down the Eway just fine.

So id put some stroke in that sucker, unless you want a hi rpm top speed street car.

But a thumber usually has lots of stroke n TQ

If you truely are starting from scratch, I would go for a 383.

Here is the dyno simulation for the 355 configuration

http://www.hotrodink.com/Images/data/546/1shawntmartin1.jpg

http://www.hotrodink.com/Images/data/546/1shawntmartin2.jpg

If you truely are starting from scratch, I would go for a 383.

Here is the dyno simulation for the 355 configuration

http://www.hotrodink.com/Images/data/546/1shawntmartin1.jpg

http://www.hotrodink.com/Images/data/546/1shawntmartin2.jpg

Those numbers are way on the high side

Those numbers are way on the high side
I agree, 400/400 maybe.

I'm guessing 400 hp or so. Shawn you can go 11:1, gain hp and still run pump gas. Add to that balancing, a bigger cam, larger heads, and more cfms in carburation. By just adding ci's alone, using whatever internals you can reuse, you won't gain any significant hp, imho. If you are going to go to all that expense then pricing out the growth pricing of going to a 383 might be much more appealing and you might stand to gain much more hp per $$ spent.

When you say larger heads, do you mean better flowing numbers from being "ported" or do you mean more than 195cc? Would the power increase from 11:1 be worth the expense of all new pistons? I'm at a .026 gasket now so I'd either have to shave the heads and port match the intake, or buy new pistons. One conencern, I was told by AFR that milling the heads would decrease the heads flow numbers a bit. And porting them would increase the numbers... sounds like a wash. Thats sounds counter productive for $ per HP. And if I got new domed pistons, i'd wonder if my valve to piston clearance would cause problems. Is all of this worth the gains of 11:1?

Ok, first of all, if you go .030 over you will need new pistons. With more ci's, I would want bigger runners and between the quench, piston type and chamber size you can dictate what compression you have. Not saying you must change heads, but better flow numbers are what you want, and considering the cost factor of good head work and some of the prices I've (and you've) seen recently I believe new heads with more upside might be just about the same money. You can run dished pistons, be down in the hole a tad bit, run a thin gasket, and with the proper sized comb. chamber get at or near 11:1 depending on the lift of your cam. I am running a .570 lift cam, and with all of those factors, getting lots of compression and running pump premium with no temp problemos, so it can be done. Do lots of research. If I remember right, you are running something like a 65cc chamber, so you could build the core up the way you want, keep your current heads (the way they are) and pick up a better flowing head down the road when the money is better, both on the buying end and on the spending end. Bolting on heads, or an intake/carb is no biggie once the heart of the beast is right where you want it.

http://lewisracingengines.com/ is a very reputable shop who deals with AFR alot. Very friendly and helpful, although not the cheapest they know their sh*t. From what I have found through my research, AFR's are the best but you pay for it. You know I settled for my Brodix and am very satisfied with the results. http://www.tonybarkerracingengines.com/Brodix.html

Like I said, build the core right complete with balancing the rotating assy, have the block, pistons and cam assy all the way you want it so if you have to wait for the exterior add ons to be upgraded its just a mere r & r'ing type of thing. I'm still thinking that going ahead with a 383, given you going the 'bore' route, is'nt going to be much more $.

yeah I can Idle all day with 11.32:1 @ 170* and I have .568 lift with plenty of clearance when they dome a piston they dont stick the meat below the valve! the valve reliefs pretty much stay the same.

Oh! that makes sense. The reliefs would still be the same depth so I could get higher compression pistons and retain the same valve clearance? Very good. I like the 383 idea, thats probably the route I'll go. Does a 383 create problems were I would need a small base circle cam?

Heres a nice article: http://www.strokerengine.com/StrokedEngines.html

I think a small base circle cam is what you will need.

I haven't run a 383 yet so I can't say from personal experience if it is any different on a 350 block, but on my 408 I used the Scat 5.7" I-beam 4340 rod with 7/16" capscrews and there is plenty of cam lobe to rod clearance without using a small base-circle camshaft. In fact I used an off the shelf Comp tight-lash solid 288TLS-6 (259°/266° @ 0.050", .550"/.570" 106° LSA) and have had no problems. This Scat rod is profiled for extra lobe to rod clearance.

I have to echo the 383 sentiments also. Cubic inches are your friend when you want a powerful, fast street car. The extra torque generated from the 3.75" stroke makes a big difference in acceleration. It is for that reason I use the 400 blocks myself to maximize the torque output even more. For budget reasons you could build a stout 383 and keep your Trick Flow heads. I used the Vortecs which have a 170cc runner on my old 413ci motor, and it ran in the 12-teens on drag radials (weighing almost 3800 lbs race-ready) with a cheap $120 cam and lifter kit, so I don't think your heads will hold you back much if at all. The key to it all will be maximizing your power output in the useable RPM range with the right combination of parts. For a primarily street car, maximizing torque is what will make the car accelerate hard, be a ton of fun to drive around, and minimize engine wear and tear because you will not need high RPM to make power.

Dirt I agree about the torque but I'm running 200's on a 355 and have as much torque as I can make work....so its kind of arbitrary as to how much torque you can make and how much you can use.

Agreed, but our later year 2nd gens are HEAVY and mine is certainly no exception to that. I used everything my 413/Vortec engine had on a 12.15 @ 110.5 run launching-off idle and still went a 1.680 60'. Had I ran it with more RPM on the launch I figure I could have tagged an 11.9x but hindsight is 20/20. With a 2800 stall converter and too much rear gear (I have 4.10 gears) the car really wanted a 3.73 gear to keep pulling past the 1000' mark. For using a relatively small port head like the Vortec, a 234° hydraulic FT cam, a vacuum secondary 750 Holley and 2800 stall converter and weighing 3760+ lbs on drag radials, I think this showed how torque can really make a heavy car relatively quick with a budget-built low dollar engine. If I had put all those same parts on a 350 with the same compression ratio I do not think I would have gone nearly that quick and fast.

My point is that the more torque generated -- as long as traction is there -- the harder the car will accelerate, and nothing builds torque like more cubes.

Geez, do i need a build a 454? I really need to research this for every single penny and see whats most cost effective. I could rebuild mine and make it a 383 or I could sell the whole combo on Ebay and put that toward a 454 rebuild. I know theres tons of extra expense with trans beefing, springs, and a thousand other things.... I just don't have a clear head right now....

A 383 with a wicked cam might be all I need.

Shawn, the bb vs. sb debate rages on. I believe in sb's personally but if you are looking for massive hp #'s bb is probably the way to go. But man do I just love the look on the faces of those with bb's when my lil ol sb whups them in the 1/4....:o

I've got one of David Vaders books on performance building sb's and those 383's are real torque masters while staying within a reasonable budget.

If I can do this with a 355....4193(and this was before changing intakes from a Team 'G' to a Super Victor), then you can do better with a well built 383...;) !