I keep reading about how great the Vortec heads are, but I have also seen Edelbrock's claims about the flow of the E-Tecs.
Does anyone know how the two really compare?
How about the Bowtie Vortecs?

I'm building up a 400 and I'm going to run the RamJet intake, so I have to stick with Vortec-style heads and I want to know what will probably run best.

TIA

check this site out.http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/41598/index4.html

According to that the Vortecs have a better intake, but a weaker exhaust. Since the E-Tecs flow about 75% on the exhaust does that mean that they would work better with a single-pattern cam?

Iron vortecs have to be modified for higher lift. They don't have guide plates so you have to use self centering rockers. They don't make as much power as the Etecs, but they won't corrode long term. The aluminum ones should work with less trouble over 9.5 to 1 CR. The Etec's come as 180cc or 200cc intake, in case you really want to go wild.
That's is what I know from checking the available info out.
Oh, yeah the Etec's will take center or side bolts on the covers.
Darryl


[This message has been edited by flyguy (edited August 14, 2005).]

An iron Vortec 400 is capable of cracking high 11's if your combo is right. Email Dirt Reynolds for his low buck Vortec setup. He hit 12.15 with Vortecs and a $70 flat tappet hydraulic cam!

Depending on machine shop prices, or if you can do it yourself, I'd seriously consider the GM Vortecs. They respond VERY well to exhaust porting, getting you near that 75% ratio. Plus there are several sets in the Swap Meet section for around $250. That sure beats spending over $1000 on aluminum heads. The 40 or so lbs. shaved off the front end isn't worth over $100 to me.

If it were me, I'd run beehive springs, install guide plates (not too expensive of a mod), and either buy a set of .100 longer valves for around $70 or get the machine shop to do the valveguide boss mod. Either way, you would be under 1/2 the price of aftermarket aluminum heads!

The E-Tecs stomp the Vortecs on the flow bench. End of story.

lol You tell them Rick http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/wink.gif

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355 10.5 TO 1,E-Tec 170 Heads,Super Victor Intake,Proform 750DP Race Carb,Comp Cams Pro Magnum 1.6 and 1.5 RR,Comp Cams 285B6 Cam,3.42 Gear,10 Inch Converter,2 1/2 Exhaust,Dynomax Race Welded Ultraflows.
Best ET:11.84
Best MPH:115.05
Best 60Ft:1.609
3500 Pounds With me

Okay Rick, some questons for you:
1) Why do you say E-Tecs stomp Vortecs? Yes, I realize the exhaust flows better, but the intake doesn't. Or is the info I am basing this off of (from the magazine article) incorrect?
2) Real world, running engines, on the street: Will the E-Tecs be better on the same short block? Are you sure/do you have proof?
3) Do you realize that even though it may sound like I am attacking you I really am just asking the questions for clarification? http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/wink.gif

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by GetMore:
Okay Rick, some questons for you:
1) Why do you say E-Tecs stomp Vortecs? Yes, I realize the exhaust flows better, but the intake doesn't. Or is the info I am basing this off of (from the magazine article) incorrect?
2) Real world, running engines, on the street: Will the E-Tecs be better on the same short block? Are you sure/do you have proof?
3) Do you realize that even though it may sound like I am attacking you I really am just asking the questions for clarification? http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/wink.gif</font>


If I have the choice of believing a car rag or believing Rick (who has a dyno and flowbench) I'm going to believe the car rag,,, because we KNOW they never LIE just to sell parts from some big advertiser!!!! http://www.small-block-chevy.com/smilielol.gif

E-tec is a 103hp inline 4cyl used in the chevy aveos. Do you really want heads with the same name? http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/confused.gif

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I'm off the antifreeze and the car is tipsy,
On the offramp doin bout a hundred 'n fifty!
71 camaro 427BBC 500+ Hp
Check out My cardomain page! (http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/814239)

We have had them both on the flow bench and had an E-Tec 427 small block on the dyno. That motor put out way over 450 ft/lbs of torque at 3000 RPM then the dyno broke and we never got to get a pull on it. It was very strong though.

It's a killer head for the money. Has a very nice combustion chamber as well. Also responds nicely to minor porting. Minor porting will put them about 12 CFM better than the AFR's are higher lift and at least equal in the low and mid.

Heck, look at 1980's times with the 170's. Not a very radical 355 for high 11's and 3500 lb's.

I'm glad I sold my fastburns and turned around for the same money and got E-Tec 170's for the street.

Basically, if done right, the E-Tec's will give yo more power if you spend a little more money on them, so the choice is yours. They are a bit lighter which will help handling more than it will accelleration (try moving the battery top the trucnk, and getting aluminum heads and intake all at once!), but the fact that you can run a point higher compression with aluminum heads, and you don't have to modify them to run a decent sized cam, that would be the answer. More $, but more power. Low to m,id 9's in compression is the safe bet for the vortecs, but the E-Tecs can go into the 10's in compression ratio easly cheaper gas. I bet they'd make 20hp more if you bump up the compression a point over the same setup running vortecs.

So Rick, are you saying that you think E-Tec's are a better head than even the AFR heads? Or are you saying a mildly ported E-Tec will outperform an unported AFR? And how do AFR's respond to porting?

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'71 RS/SS pile of parts: full roller 406sbc / 9.76:1 w/ E-Tec Al. heads / 750 Competition AFB / 12"/11.1" 4 whl discs / big sway bars / 4 speed 3.23 posi / 81 Z28 & dual snorkel vette Air Induction

If you ask me there simply is not a better head for a street engine on the market at the moment.500HP+ Potential out of the box,small runners and small valves,excelent throttle response,excelent velocity,good fuel mileage.They are more expensive than vortecs for sure but great bang for buck.

Andy

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355 10.5 TO 1,E-Tec 170 Heads,Super Victor Intake,Proform 750DP Race Carb,Comp Cams Pro Magnum 1.6 and 1.5 RR,Comp Cams 285B6 Cam,3.42 Gear,10 Inch Converter,2 1/2 Exhaust,Dynomax Race Welded Ultraflows.
Best ET:11.84
Best MPH:115.05
Best 60Ft:1.609
3500 Pounds With me

The porting we have done on the E-Tecs was just some cleanup on the combustion chambers and on the short side. It cost the customer around $500 if I remember correctly. They flowed better than an AFR 195 does as delivered CNC'ed by 12 CFM. They also flowed over 270 up through .750 lift, which I thought was interesting in case you REALLY want to get wild with the cam.

I have fully ported 195's out having the runners completely reworked as well as combustion chambers and the short sides. Totally reworked in other words including new valves. $1500 later those heads flowed a tad over 300 CFM. The engine really responded and made 55 more horse on the same dyno.

I liked the AFR's when I ran them years ago. I just think they are TOOOOOO expensive these days and there are other heads that work as well, or can be made to work better, for less.

I'm just speculating but I suspect sooner, rather than later, AFR will upgrade their head line. They just have to.

AH!!!
Someone who knows!
I hadn't paid enough attention to have known that you (Rick) have done porting and testing of heads, so I didn't realize. Thank you.
So, let's say I wanted to go with a ported set: Would I buy through your shop? Or would I have to send them off to you?
Is this a standard type of porting job, or your own specific research?

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by GetMore:
AH!!!
Someone who knows!
I hadn't paid enough attention to have known that you (Rick) have done porting and testing of heads, so I didn't realize. Thank you.
So, let's say I wanted to go with a ported set: Would I buy through your shop? Or would I have to send them off to you?
Is this a standard type of porting job, or your own specific research?</font>

However you want to do it. When we buy heads we like to get them bare. Then spec springs, valves, retainers to the application. Ferrea or Rev valves, whichever flow better on the bench, Isky springs to match the camshaft and Ti retainers if in the budget. If you want to talk about it call Jon at the shop at 1-608-825-1060 and just tell him we talked on the board.

Rick Wi, You mentioned the e-tecs respond well to minor porting. Can you explain to a novice like myself what is involved with the minor porting? I have the 200cc e-tecs on my 406 now and while I don't have anything to compare their performance to, I am always looking for winter projects. lol.
Appreciate the help

Jerry

Sheesh, I am asking about porting heads and I can't even put up a post without screwin up

Thanks for the info

[This message has been edited by JBE (edited August 18, 2005).]

All our porter did was rework the area behind the valve and the short side. Some work in the combustion chamber around the valves as well. Our porter never "says" exactly what he does nor is it a question we ever ask. The guys that know what works on a head have their secrets and they tend to keep them close to the chest.

I will say this though, not that it will help at all. When a change is made to a head, however minor, the head goes back on the flowbench to compare results. If it improves then additional work continues in that area. If not, then he knows hes going the wrong direction. This saves fooking up a head.

Porting heads is not my bag, I personally don't know the first thing about what actually makes a head work and what doesn't. What I have gained over the last few years though is being able to see a stock head flowchart, compare it with other similar head designs and having a gut feel on how well it may work on a given application in stock form as well as what it should pick up when worked over.