Has anybody been successful in getting a car to pass emissions that has an older engine installed? I'm wondering if it would be possible if I added a cat. converter, Holley carb that is built for emissions (I cant remember the model) and do an alcohol conversion on the carb and run E85.

This how it is!!

They run a VIN check on what the car is supposed to have on it w/ respect to emissions equipment and then if you have to do an I/M 240 test or a tailpipe sniffer test, it's already spec'd what you have to have to pass it!!!

Plus, you can't install an older engine in a newer car w/o hooking up ALL the smog stuff that the car had when new!!!!

That and it is illegal to install a heavy-duty engine in a car, end of conversation!!

And fwiw, I'm presenting our new St. Louis ozone nonattainment area's de-centralized I/M rule 5.381 before our MACC on the 29th in West Plains, MO.

pdq67

...That and it is illegal to install a heavy-duty engine in a car, end of conversation!!...

pdq67

Maybe it is in Russia, but not here.

Tell that to all the guys here that have put high output engines in there 2nd gens. :rolleyes:

Tell that to all the guys here that have put high output engines in there 2nd gens.Just because lots of people do it, doesn't mean it isn't illegal. It is.

Having said that, knowing where you live, and what you are trying to do, could get you a lot of suggestions.

in nevad a 80 and below 79-78so one you can do what you want 81 up no you cant change nothing it all depends on the state your in

Welcome to my nightmare!!!!!

yeah, It depends on your state, county or even city. You need to see what the laws are where you live.

Im in Phoenix, I deal with it every year and pass.

Some places you can register your car as historic (and insure it as such) and you dont have to pass anything--Arizona.

Other places grandfather-in more emissions exempt cars on a rolling basis every year. Including California. I think theyre are well into the 1970s now.

You may have to pass a visual equipment check (ie cat, AIR pump, etc.) and a sniffer. Or just the sniffer.

As far as engines go??? I never heard that putting new hi-po stuff in a car was illegal. A 350 w/ fuel injection for example? No way.

Previous poster was right about needing to have all emissions stuff that was initally stock to pass the visual check.

So go buy yourself an AIR pump, regulators, smog tubes, charcoal canister, egr, vacuum switches, vacuum delays, new manifold, heat risers, stoves, a cutout valve, cat converter, etc, etc,.....

Or get a PO box out in the country and register it there.


HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Welcome to my nightmare!!!!!

I checked with the DEQ in the state I'm in (oregon). The lady practically laughed when I asked her if the car has to have the original smog equipment. She said they don't do underhood inspections in my state anymore (apparently they used to). All they care about is what's comming out of the tailpipe.

Good for me :cool:

Now, efinger, do you think I need all that stuff or should I start with some of it and add stuff until it passes? It's a high performance big block. I was talking to a local muscle car specialist and he said that the cam will govern what's coming out of the tailpipe. Any thoughts?

thanks guys

no I was just kidding!

To hell with that stuff. I only need it for the visual inspection. If I were you I'd get the carb tuned and see how the test goes. There are alot of tricks to help pass emissions for the day. The most common is to run alcohol for fuel. Also idle adjustment and proper warm up is key.

Some people think that a very low idle will help pass. Some think a high idle (more complete combustion) helps. Ive passed with both. Last time I had to crank the idle up. Not too high thou.

When youre low fill 1/3 tank w/ 91 octane, run your car hard for 35-45 min. Then head to the test site. I sometimes add octane booster for the last ten minutes as well, not sure if that helps or not.

If you are way over standard and out of options then I'd get a cat converter. Magnaflow on ebay 60-70 bux. See if that helps you pass.

Do more searches more on the site.

My last discussion:
http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77016&highlight=emissions

no I was just kidding!

To hell with that stuff. I only need it for the visual inspection. If I were you I'd get the carb tuned and see how the test goes. There are alot of tricks to help pass emissions for the day. The most common is to run alcohol for fuel. Also idle adjustment and proper warm up is key.

Some people think that a very low idle will help pass. Some think a high idle (more complete combustion) helps. Ive passed with both. Last time I had to crank the idle up. Not too high thou.

When youre low fill 1/3 tank w/ 91 octane, run your car hard for 35-45 min. Then head to the test site. I sometimes add octane booster for the last ten minutes as well, not sure if that helps or not.

If you are way over standard and out of options then I'd get a cat converter. Magnaflow on ebay 60-70 bux. See if that helps you pass.

Do more searches more on the site.

My last discussion:
http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77016&highlight=emissions

Thanks. Hopefully I won't have to fork out too many c-notes to get it through.

Sorry if everybody doesn't understand that I posted FEDERAL LAW here!!!

And even IF your state decide's to thumb their nose's at the FED'S, it's still illegal at the FEDERAL level!!

pdq67

PDQ67,
You are correct about "heavy duty" engine replacement being illegal in every case. But what does that mean? Camaro chassis originally came with big blocks. So I would think you could legally throw in anything up to 427. I guess not in the later 70s cars.

I know 90% of members here give doodly about these laws. (including myself)

But anyhow, you can read the complicated laws here:

www.epa.gov/compliance/resources/policies/civil/caa/mobile/engswitch.pdf

and here:

www.eere.energy.gov/afdc/pdfs/2753.pdf

Quoting the law:
For light-duty vehicles, installation of a light-duty engine into a different light-duty vehicle by any person would be considered [illegal] tampering unless the resulting vehicle is identical (with regard to all emission related parts, engine design parameters, and engine calibrations) to a certified configuration of
the same or newer model year as the vehicle chassis.


There several references stating the owner has "required emission testing conformance to standards over the useful life of the vehicle or engine." The law it says this "useful life for cars is 5 years or 50,000 miles.

So does that mean any car over five years isnt held to these modification laws?

The spirit of the law really only seems concerned with final emissions output (as it should be).

It's a vehicle chassis weight thing that determine's if an engine is a h-D one or not!!

I think anything over 8400 pounds is a h-d engine AND the VIN will tell you for sure!! I do know that ALL tall deck 366 and 427 BB's are h-d!!!

pdq67

PS., and I e-mailed AND saved the answer that I got back from our MSHP BEFORE I installed my '75 454 P/U blocked 496 engine to be sure b/c they do check here at safety inspection time if they want to be hard-asses!!

Like I said earlier, I'm presenting St. Louis's new de-centralized I/M program before our Missouri Air Conservation Commission next thursday in West Plains, Mo for Public Comment!! I have seven air rules to present so it's gonna be a long day!!!

pdq67

Hopefully you will have some luck convincing them that some of the emissions laws are outdated and ineffective. If thats what you (and your 454) are doing! That one .pdf link is from 1974!!!

The emissions "techs" here and AZ can barely put a car in first gear, let alone tell what kind of engine a car should have.

Arizona has passed a "historic/classic car" law if you will. Basically, the law makers realized that people such as ourselves with 25-30 year old "classic" cars generally keep them running pretty well. In addition these cars contribute a tiny fraction of the overall air pollution.

I find that new construction, industry and large trucks are the worst polluters. Phoenix air is REALLY BAD!!!

If California can adapt emissions laws for older cars, all other states should as well.

Another point: The original poster--from Oregon--said that Oregon doesnt care about all the emissions OE anymore; and they wont even let you pump your own gas up there! (for emissions purposes and jobs).

I would tune it as best I could and then test it. Go from there, no need to spend the money if it will pass as is.

woo. we dont have e check n e more lol