Hello fellow Camaro owners! I recently purchased a '79 coupe with a bad rod-knock on it's original 305 engine. I got the car for a great price and am willing to spend a little cash to bring her back to glory.
Unfortunately, I have limited knowledge about domestics, as I was caught up for a while in the fading import scene (don't be mad, I learned my lesson!) I realized that while these cars can run forever, the little things that break every year can slowly bleed your wallet dry.
I thought I'd switch it up and buy a car that actually can go up in value with time! On top of that, from what I've researched so far, I see that I can make decent horsepower from not so much money...
Anyways, enough rambling. My questions are:
1.Is trying to drop a 427 in the car a little too ambitious for someone with basic car knowledge and some friends who have a garage and a few years of know-how? The car has a 4spd manual and a new clutch, brake lines and brakes, and exhaust. <--Just a little background info.
2. If the 427 would not put too much stress on the drivetrain, would I need to replace the "Wanna-be Dual" exhaust that's on there now with a true dual pipe set-up? I've heard that even with 2.5-3" exhaust, the 400 blocks need more breathing room.

Guess that's about it for now, if anyone has good links to sites where remanufactured engine setups aren't too expensive, it would be much appreciated. Thanks for your help guys!

-Joe

Welcome aboard and congratulations on seeing the light.

One of the 2gen Camaro's great strenths is its ability to swallow almost any engine out there, including small and big block Chevy, Pontiacs, and the more modern LS1 setups.

When you say "427" you are most likely talking about a big block chevy, although it is possible, and increasingly popular, to have a 427 cubic inch small block.

How many bolts hold down the valve covers? If it four then you have a small block. If it is seven then it is a big block.

You can use the later style small block "clamshell" motor mounts for either small or big block engines, fwiw.

The swap is not a big deal, you and your buddies can do it unless you all are the 3 Stooges or something.

Yes, you do want 2 1/2" or 3" inch dual exhaust all the way back with a 427 rat (big block).

Let's see some pics!!

Again, welcome aboard.

I found a couple sites last night just looking for cheaper remanufactured engines. Seeing as I don't know a whole lot about these engines, I'll just post the link and you guys can tell me if I'm a complete moron or not.

http://www.tbolt.net/Chevrolet_CID.htm

Apparently, I can get a 427 short block for almost a grand. I've heard that the 327 and the 427 are probably the strongest engines GM made for these cars and could bolt right up to stock parts without too much problem. Something doesn't seem quite right about thatprice though, but again, I'm not sure. Thanks for the help and it's great to be here!

If you have a fairly well built big block, you want to make sure you have a good factory 4 speed... The wider ratio first gear 4 speeds with aluminum cases aren't too forgiving on hard launches and hookups. Keep your rear tires under 235 if that's the case!

Well, big blocks really rack up the budget a lot quicker than small blocks, so just figure that in. The extra torque will really give you the advantage. Remember the old saying, "There's no replacement for displacement!"

I looked at that site, and here's what I think. If going big block, I would honestly just go with the longer stroke of a 454 for a street engine. Stay away from the newer engines also, as parts are more $ and not interchangeable with all the common stuff. look for "2 pc rear main seal" in the description to make sure you're keeping with the right stuff.

If you had the $, a 454 would be great, but you'll get the most bang for your buck, and much better handling with a small block. I would really look into the two 383 stroker combos they sell, and the 400's they have also. I have three 400's, if that tells you anything. A 383 is a 350 bored .030" over, with a 400 crank (longer stroke) machined down to fit in the 350 block. These have 5.7" rods and hypereutectic pistons (better qaulity than a factory stock cast piston).
The 400 will give you more torque, but factory 400's have 5.565" rods instead of 5.7" rods, a slight disadvantage as far as friction and rod ratio are concerned, but really won't pose any major problems. The shorter rod slows down the piston speed A LOT, but exerts more force on the outside walls of the cylinders. 5.7" in a 400 is generally the norm when guys build their own engines up. You need pistons with a different pin location when you alter the stock rod length.
The 400 block castings are a lot more rigid because the cylinders are so large that there are no spaces between then, they are cast together. The 350's are all seperated. The 400's will have major cooling problems if you don't drill the steam holes in the heads when using non-stock 400 heads. Since water cant circulate between the cylinders, steam builds up under the deck surface and gets trapped. 400's have small holes drilled in the deck surface between the cylinders to let the steam excape upwards and let water circulate through there. all 400 factory heads are smog heads pretty much, so any non-stock 400 head will have to have steam holes drilled in them. Head gaskets for 400's are used as templates, and some of the holes have to be drilled at an angle. You can find 400 info ALL OVER THIS SITE if you search enough.

So the 383 might have some more high performance parts if you are really trying to build it to the hilt with the stock small block. slightly longer rods, slightly better pistons.

The best thing you could do is call that place and see if they can do something custom for you, use 350 GM "X" rods, and use some Federal Mogul Speed Pro pistons for a 400 with 5.7 rods. Get a piston with some dish to it so you can use GM Vortec heads. the 400's large bore with a flat top piston will make way too much compression for a 64cc combustion chambered vortec head. That would be the ticket.

Oh yeah, if you want the best cornering, a large displacement small block is the way to go. 245/50/16's, new suspension bushings, and 1-1/4" ft and 7/8" rear sway bars with good shocks will make it handle like a dream with a small block.

If they won't do a custom order like that, get the 383 they have, short block, and go to http://www.sdpc2000.com and order the upgraded GM vortec heads. These are the best head for the street when considering price. Best performance small block chevy head ever made, really.

Then have someone show you how to adjust valves on a solid lifter cam, and get something around 220 degrees duration @ .050" tappet lift. Maybe with a lift in the upper .400"'s. the wider the lobe seperation angle, the broader the powerband, the narrower the lobe center, the more peak power you get in a shorter band. 108= narrower, 110= standard, 114=really wide.
150 or 175 lb rear leafs will help out with take offs if you are concerned with cornering. If not, then get a used set of traction bars for the leafs.

Oh, SDPC sells vortec complete kits that include an Edelbrock Vortec intake manifold, head gaskets, intake gaskets, etc... which would be a great deal for you. the vortecs take a specific style intake that isn't interchangeable.

Vortecs are the way to go on a small block. This is the best bang for your buck.

If you are more concerned with straight line power, less with handling, and have more money to spend, a big block is good also, get stiffer front springs through!

Hope this helps. There's my 10 years of Camaro ownership and experience in a nutshell. Now if I only had time to work on mine! Have to run and get Some HTR-Z 255's for my new wheels, then work on garage. Finally I get to get some work in on the stuff that I really want to do! Good luck!

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'71 RS/SS project: full roller 406sbc / 9.76:1 w/ E-Tec Al. heads / 750 Competition AFB / big 4 whl discs, 1-5/16 VSE ft & 1" Rancho adj. rr sway bars / 4 speed 3.23 posi / 81 Z28 & dual snorkel vette Air Induction

oh yeah, ask if they do cam clearancing on the rods for the 383's. The 400 crank's stroke with a longer than stock rod (i.e., 5.7" +) will put the rod bolts really close to the cam lobes. If they don't clearance them, then you will need to get a small base circle cam, and get longer pushrods.

Heck,since the 383 they have is obviously not a stock combo, ask them what kind of cam they put in them! I bet it's a higher performance profile. Maybe they can throw in a custom cam for you? It's probably a hydraulic lifter, stays adjusted better, but eats up a little power over a solid. SOlid lifters require more time adjusting valves periodically. That and the SDPC vortec head kit would get you going for a great price! You can get complete engines on ebay a lot as well.

good deal? http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4546492730&cate gory=34202 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4546492730&category=34202)
See if you have any Forward Freight terminals near the seller's location and near you, tehy are 3 times cheaper than most places to ship engines. http://www.forwardair.com .

Check this out,
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item =7971435868&category=33615&sspagename=WD1V (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7971435868&category=33615&sspagename=WD1V)

This thing would REALLY scream! Great price:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item =7971438382&category=33615&sspagename=WD1V (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7971438382&category=33615&sspagename=WD1V)
big cam for street, it would definitely sound MEAN, but would still be somewhat streetable!

With the 383, you should EASILY make 1 hp per cubic inch with a cam in that range, vortec heads, a good carb, ignition, and exhaust. With a 400 with vortec heads, 400 hp is a piece of cake, and you'll definitely have a good bit more tire shredding torque on your hands.
Demon carbs are the best, but a Holley will do great if you don't mind tuning it more. For street reliability, I got a deal on a Carter AFB. The Holley will give you a little more performance. Just get a new one to avoid hassles if you don't have much experience rebuilding carbs.

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'71 RS/SS project: full roller 406sbc / 9.76:1 w/ E-Tec Al. heads / 750 Competition AFB / big 4 whl discs, 1-5/16 VSE ft & 1" Rancho adj. rr sway bars / 4 speed 3.23 posi / 81 Z28 & dual snorkel vette Air Induction

EDIT:
another great one, aluminum heads (lighter), more compression, but smaller cam and a little less power:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7970701606&category=33615

just search ebay for 383, sort by price, complete engines will be less than $4000 in your range I am guessing. Search for 406 as well as 400 in the same manner, that might be the best bet to find a 400 built like those two 383's. 406 is 400 bored .030" over on rebuild.

[This message has been edited by Chuck78 (edited April 30, 2005).]

could be a good starting point,

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7970908661&category=33615

THIS 406 is THE TICKET, cough up the cash!!!!
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7971058731&category=33615

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'71 RS/SS project: full roller 406sbc / 9.76:1 w/ E-Tec Al. heads / 750 Competition AFB / big 4 whl discs, 1-5/16 VSE ft & 1" Rancho adj. rr sway bars / 4 speed 3.23 posi / 81 Z28 & dual snorkel vette Air Induction

WOW, that's a lot of info to digest right now. Gimme some time, and I'll be back with more questions for sure.
Also, if any of you guys out there know what you're doing and live in the Madison-Milwaukee-Chicago area and would like to lend some of your expert knowledge in person, I'd be more than grateful and would be willing to offer modest compensation for time and possible help with labor.

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May not run yet, but when she does, watch out!

i'm in oregon,IL (about 100miles straight west of chicago) where are you?

Downtown Milwaukee, but I'm currently storing car at friend's house and looking for winter storage/garage where engine swap can take place...

Well, I've been reviewing my financial situation and based on the responses to this topic plus the one about building an engine on a budget, I'm thinking of postponing this project until I've got about $3500 in my hands.
The beast will just have to sit one more summer and winter waiting to get out of the garage. Unless of course someone wants to loan me about $2000 or so. That would be awesome. I'll check back on the forum periodically for advice on building an engine when I get the cash.
Thanks to all that took the time to answer my dumb questions and I hope to keep in touch with you guys so that next summer, maybe I can have a car that runs just as sweet as yours! See ya later!