I think my LS1 won't get replaced after all, and I should seriously start looking into doing this repair myself.
I have a 2004 GTO LS1 that I bought with 26K on the odometer from a wrecked GTO for $4500 + s/h a year ago for those that don't know.
It was finally put in my car and started maybe 11 months later to find out I had a rod knocking.
The shop is claiming no responsibility here because it's been almost a year.....

So I need to figure out how to repair this myself, and I've NEVER done this or any major engine overhauls before.
So I was hoping to get some knowledge on what my best course of action would be here.

The shop who installed it said it would be anywhere from $2500 - $4,000 to fix it depending on what needed to be done.
So if anyone would like to chime in here and help a brotha out, i'd be grateful on where to begin with this.
Car comes home today most likely and I'm yankin the motor and it's going on a stand so I can pull it apart.
I want to do as much as I can myself to save money on this.

first step is to pull it apart and inspect. it may not be as bad as you think, buts all speculation till you really have a look.

This might sound stupid but it happened to me so please check.

I started my car up 2 weeks after i went racing and heard this nasty knock could not figure out what it was since I have aluminum rods and it ran fine at the track. I was all ready to pull the motor out after taking the headers out and everything when I went to undo the mounts I notice the pan has a dent in it and the noise was the crank hitting the pan. It sound just like rod knock . It is still unknown how this happened on my motor as there was no missing paint on the pan just a dent. so just inspect that pan from all angles.

and worst case you might have to pull the crank get it cut some new bearing

First of all ACE, don't rip it apart. I think all you'll do is make a mess. I say this ONLY because......well you've never done it before.

The teardown of a hurt motor is part of the process an engine builder will use to diagnose any issues the motor may have. The time involved to tear the motor down is not that great. Let's say 2 to 3 hours. I can piss $200 bucks down the drain in 2-3 hours on North Rush Street!

I may though have another option for you. Someone we know has, or had, an LS1 motor built by Carl Wagner they wanted to sell. If you don't know who Carl is he's the go to guy for LS1 technology the GM Performance uses for R&D. The guy is selling the motor because he's having Carl build him an LSX motor.

Anyway, he wanted $2500 for it.

I was told it ran and was in perfect shape but that's worth as much as what you paid for this info. IF that motor is still for sale, I'm trying to find out, I can certainly do a bit more digging for you relative to the condition, if we can hear it run and so forth.

Then an additional option is to sell the motor you currently have.

The only BAD thing I see here is R&R'ing the engine b/c don't the suckers really need to drop out the bottom as a complete unit using a great big subframe/engine and tranny jack??

pdq67

Good advice from Rick - as usual

A drop of advice from me
BUY FORGED PISTONS

Ace,
I dont know you personally but from your posts that I have read you seem to have better than the average intelligence.

You also have so many knowledgeable folks on this very website.

I say find a good machine shop. Get some literature and make some contacts that have done this very thing, before. Then have at it.

I was nervous building my first engine in 1995. I made some mistakes but I had good literature and excellent resources. Anything I ran into I easily tackled with their help.

It was a 5.0 ford. I know it is not as complex as your LS1 but to me at the time it was to me and I tackled it.

I say you can easily tackle it.

Tear it down and take tons of pics and digital pics along the way so that anything you run into you can just post a pic of and people can help you out.

The only BAD thing I see here is R&R'ing the engine b/c don't the suckers really need to drop out the bottom as a complete unit using a great big subframe/engine and tranny jack??

pdq67
This is in his 2nd gen. I don't see why it won't come out like any other engine.

first step is to pull it apart and inspect. it may not be as bad as you think, buts all speculation till you really have a look.
When you go to pull it apart.... take lots of hi-res pics.... You, as a newbie, will consider them invaluable when re-assembly time comes!;)

regrind crank
Resized rod (s)
proper sized bearings
flush out oil passages
gasket set.

That would be minimum
You can re-ring it, bore it cjange all kinds of goodies.

Id put forged slugs in it and a little more camshaft while I was in it if I were you.

Might sound anal Aces, but if you do tear it down, get some freezer bags. drop a note in every bag as you dissasmble it . include the bolts/fasteners in the same baggy. I (as most) aint familiar with a ls motor. I really don't think a complete rebuild would be needed with that milage. The problem should be at the crank.A spun bearing should be obvious.

Honestly I would farm it out for tear down and machining at the very least. A machinist will do alot more then tear down and look for the obvious. They will mic and measure. Honestly they might catch something you might miss. And I know you want this shit behind you. Your'e in pretty deep already I know. spend a few more hundred and have it checked out by a pro. I would Aces..Johnny

Might sound anal Aces, but if you do tear it down, get some freezer bags. drop a note in every bag as you dissasmble it . include the bolts/fasteners in the same baggy. I (as most) aint familiar with a ls motor. I really don't think a complete rebuild would be needed with that milage. The problem should be at the crank.A spun bearing should be obvious.



I agree. I did this when I stripped my '79 for painting. I gutted the car. I used lots of zip lock sandwich baggies. I stuck a piece of masking tape on each bag and wrote a description w/ a sharpie. The reassembly went smooooth.

You will have to decide if you are capable of rebuilding that motor. For the mechanically inclined, it's not that hard. Also, if you lay out the bearing inserts, pistons and rods, push rods, etc in a methodical manner, you shouldn't loose any "historical" info.

FYI - LS1's are prone to bent pushrods. Did that donor GTO have a MN6 or A4 tranny? Lot's of folks w/ a MN6 missed a gear on the upshift (hit 1st instead of 3rd or 5th), over revved and bent a pushrod or two. They can make a lot of racket. If that's the case, you'd be out a very small amount.

It might be wothrwhile to remove the pushrods and roll them across a piece of glass.

I may though have another option for you. Someone we know has, or had, an LS1 motor built by Carl Wagner they wanted to sell. If you don't know who Carl is he's the go to guy for LS1 technology the GM Performance uses for R&D. The guy is selling the motor because he's having Carl build him an LSX motor.

Anyway, he wanted $2500 for it.

I will keep that in mind, but I just found out today that the place I purchased it from is going to definitely re-imburse me on the repairs as long as I get a fair estimate that is within their margin of error. If not, they will send me a new motor.

TOTALLY appreciate the offer though, and your'e right, me tearing it apart would have been a mess. :p

Good advice from Rick - as usual

A drop of advice from me
BUY FORGED PISTONS

Hey, you used to do this......what would it cost me to do forged pistons since
I'm later going to be putting a Supercharger on this thing ??? Would it be wise
to do the higher strength rods , etc now ??? I know stock LS1's could handle 5lbs of boost.
I was thinking that would slap me up to @~ 500hp which is ENOUGH.

Thoughts ??

Oh, and yeah pdq, the engine is in the car already and definitely HAS to come out.
You can't take the pan off completely without getting the engine out as far as I was told.
It's sitting 1/'8 of an inch above the K-member.


FYI - LS1's are prone to bent pushrods. Did that donor GTO have a MN6 or A4 tranny?

A4. I have that installed with it. COMPLETE drivetrain swap.
This doesn't quite have the tone of a pushrod.....it's a LOUD thunking noise, not a rattle

Hey, you used to do this......what would it cost me to do forged pistons since
I'm later going to be putting a Supercharger on this thing ??? Would it be wise
to do the higher strength rods , etc now ??? I know stock LS1's could handle 5lbs of boost.
I was thinking that would slap me up to @~ 500hp which is ENOUGH.



Aces I have seen LS1 with just HCI make 500hp easy.

I think Raughammer (spelling?) ran in the 9s or 10s with bolt ons in an LS1 camaro if I remember right.

Like others said since you really don't know what your looking for, it would be the best to let people that know do it, or get a buddy over that knows engines and have him help/look when taking it apart..

Last year I bought a 1986 camaro with a swapped in '73 350 v8 for parts mostly. Engine had a knocking rod. Well I just now got around to pulling it out and checking engine out..

I pulled off the driver's side head, noticed on #3 cyl the head had a 'half moon' shaped shiny spot on the deck of the head.. Then looked at the piston for that cyl.. Noticed a broke half moon looking place on it.. Hmm that tells me piston has been hitting head.. So now I have to think why that could happen.. 1st though was rod moving up too much due to rod bolts, rod cap, or rod bearing..

Pull the oil pan, and put a socket on one of the rod bolts for #3 cyl.. Rod moves around alot.. Get the bolts off and cap off.. Aint much of a rod bearing left.. The two halfs are paper thin, and one is under the other.. Look at rod.. A rod bearing had spun..

So I knew crank would be bad on that journal but I felt any way.. Real rough.. So in the end to fix just that prob this engine will need a rod, a piston, a rod bearing and turn the crank on that journal, along with smoothing out the mark on head..

To do it right though whole engine will need to be took apart, cleaned of any bearing metal, crank turned, all bearings replaced, atleast that 1 rod replaced, etc

Although it's a correct thing to do if you are going to blow some air into the motor I suspect you are going to kind of choke on the cost. I'd have to look up some options for rods but lets just say for giggles $600 to $800 for something decent, just a SWAG guess. For pistons, going with a speced JE, BME, CP, Mahle, say $600 to $800+, with rings, depending on how they were tricked up. Add in the boring, honing with torque plate, it's going to be an upgrade for sure.

Course if the current rods are shot then it's an offset in cost for the new rods.

If you have those large containers of detergent, milk gallons or half gallon, 2 liter bottles,etc... Cut them in half or bigger and use them to store your bolts, parts and anything else you have laying around. I hit the recycling bins of neighbors and saved myself a ton of money when I disassembled the whole car. Have fun tyaking her apart. Video tape and take yons of pics. I did it with my Sony DVD and it was great for future reference. Add up what it is going to cost you when you have apart and get back to the guy quickly and get the funds. From your previous post you already spent a good penny on your ride.

I will keep that in mind, but I just found out today that the place I purchased it from is going to definitely re-imburse me on the repairs as long as I get a fair estimate that is within their margin of error. If not, they will send me a new motor.



Sounds like good news to me.

Are you using the fuel injection / OEM setup ?

I will keep that in mind, but I just found out today that the place I purchased it from is going to definitely re-imburse me on the repairs as long as I get a fair estimate that is within their margin of error. If not, they will send me a new motor.
...

We'll wait til that actually happens, but hearing that makes me consider this place very worthy of high praise. That's awesome they're backing it up like that.

If it was a simple bearing swap and crank grind, I'd say DIY, but you wont really know what's wrong til it's pulled apart, and then you might have more of a mess than ever after that.
Considering they'll help you with the repair costs, have someone reputable service it.

We'll wait til that actually happens, but hearing that makes me consider this place very worthy of high praise. That's awesome they're backing it up like that.

If it was a simple bearing swap and crank grind, I'd say DIY, but you wont really know what's wrong til it's pulled apart, and then you might have more of a mess than ever after that.
Considering they'll help you with the repair costs, have someone reputable service it.


I would bet you are right, just grind the crank and replace the bearings....

BUT while you have to pull the pistons to re-size the rods you need to look close at the pistons and bore while its apart. A good time to bore and use some forged slugs with molly rings and a fat cam. the list goes on and it can whirlwind into an expensive proposition. but the power gain can be substaitial. consider it a blessing cuz you will end up with some bonus horsepower you would have never seen if the rod bearing not let go!!

Ya got it home Ace?
take the engine out and have someone that knows how, help and you will be OK.

Mark

Sounds like good news to me.

Are you using the fuel injection / OEM setup ?

Yep. I can go with a FAST intake later if need be or bigger injectors.
In reality my ultimate goal here is a daily driver car that gets as good of gas mileage as possible with a nice power rump available to me if I want to giggle.
However stock MPG if I keep my foot out of it......hence why I'm keeping the stock injection for now.

Course if the current rods are shot then it's an offset in cost for the new rods.

Well what I was hoping was to offset the cost with my own money.
WHATEVER has to be yanked and replaced, I'm going to upgrade and let them know that.
If they're going to be honest , then I will be as well.
I don't need the bad karma.

The crank front bolt for the pulley was crossthreaded from the factory I was told.
So it needed to be tapped. If it comes down to it, I'm just replacing it.....they said it was only $200.....I'd rather just be safe.


Ya got it home Ace?
take the engine out and have someone that knows how, help and you will be OK.

Mark

Yeah, just got it home 2 days ago. Here's a few pics from the trailer to my reserved spot in my driveway until I can get the old engine and hoist
out of my garage for it to fit. That new 60 gallon air compressor (Which I absolutely LOVE!!!!) is in there with my beer fridge and craftsman tool box
they are eating up quite a bit of room right now. > Pics here > http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/Aceshigh22/LS1%20Implant/
(yeah I know my polished aluminum rims aren't looking so hot right now....:()

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/Aceshigh22/LS1%20Implant/CamarodeliveryJan07.jpg

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/Aceshigh22/LS1%20Implant/CamarodeliveryJan074.jpg

Sorry Aces,

I missed what car you had it in..

pdq67

Theres a place in Naperville off of Rt. 59 that does a lot of ls1 stuff. My bro., got is work done there when he hurt his last motor.(too much spray killed an intake valve).As far as rebuilding it yourself. I've heard of guys putting small pin sized holes in there aluminum blocks. They did this buy leaving (too much anti-sieze? or somthing) in the threads. They would tork down there heads and WOOPS! We now have a crap block. Urban myth or junk to begin with? Find a reputable builder and go with 'em. Good luck and if your ever around the downers grove/Joliet area I'll keep an eye out for ya.