SBC with TH350 AND clear manual linkage....with no massaging.
I'll be swapping from auto to manual in the near future and don't want to buy headers twice. I've already installed all the manual hardware including the pedal.
I have shorties now, but going back to long tubes when I install the new engine. I want to buy some good quality headers (thick flange) that I can continue to use after the tranny swap.

I would think that any quality header will work with both transmissions. I put headers on my first 79, it was a 4 speed, and the only thing I had to modify was the support rods that go from the frame to the crossmember, I unbolted them and tossed them out. ;) The factory Z bar and block mount wasn't even close to the headers, and when I finally converted to a TH350 there still wasn't any issue.

Only problem with most headers and manual is the backdrive rod (and above mentioned frame support,but are in the way with an auto too)

Hookr Super Comps work very well with the Z bar.

I run the Hooker Comps 2451 with 1 5/8" primaries & 3" collector. They clear the clutch linkage well and are pretty easy with straight plugs. What are the specs required?

Primary & collector size? Angle/straight plugs?

Shane

straight plugs, 1 5/8" primaries, 2.5" collectors would be best but 3" collectors would be ok (as long as there's floor pan clearance) cause I'll have room to reduce into the 2.5" Pypes system.
How's the clearance around the plug wires with the Hooker Comps 2451. What plugs are you using?

I installed some this summer. Below is my complete write up of how they installed with my 4 speed...

Step By Step For Header Install

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I went through a lot a research and a bit swearing installing my headers. I gathered up so much information from this board but I was looking around in lots of different threads. I have decided to make a step by step trying to remember the CORRECT sequence I took for the install.

Car is a 1980 camaro, rs, 350, originally a 305 car, with a saginaw 4 speed. I do not have any emmisions or AC.

Headers were a set of Dynomax Blackjack Headers.

1. Remove all existing exhaust. This was actually harder than you think. I had an exhaust installed about 8 years ago from the stock manifolds back to before the rear axle. The problem was taking off, or rather breaking off all of the old bolts. More than 1/2 of them broke off. Actually all of the studs on the cast exhaust manifolds broke except for one. A breaker bar is an absolute for this job.

2. I will start with the drivers side. I learned all of these steps the hard way, but follow these steps so you don't have to do what I did and get the headers half way in to learn you need to remove another item.

3. Remove the clutch pedal cotter pin from inside the car. This will make it so the Z bar can turn more to help clearance while installing. THis is a must. Remove the clutch return spring. Remove the clutch adjusting rod. Remove all spark plugs. You will also need to remove the A-arm support. THis is the 18"-20" piece with 3 bolts. It looks like a piece of bent steel angle. You could also remove and then modify the support for the header tubes, but the A arm is not really necessary in my opinion. You will need to remove the lower A arm support on both sides to accomodate header tubes in my opinion.

4. Here is the hard part. I was luck enough to have 2 jacks that are made for my year of car. I think any 78-81 jack will be the same so you might have to borrow one. Regardless of what you use, you need to get the front tires up about 1 foot. I am not kidding. It really looks scary. You will need to block the front tires, raise up the front end carefully. Also, never get under a car without some sort of blocks for if the jacks collapse.

5. The headers will slide in from the bottom easily at this point. No denting of tubes is required. At this point reinstall the spark plugs for easier access to them. Now bolt up the header and reinstall all disconnected parts.



6. THe passenger side was actually more difficult to my surprise. I thought with having a 4 speed all of the linkages would be in the way, but it was a perfect fit.

7. With the car lower to the ground and on jack stands, remove the starter. This was a must. Hang all of the wires on the top end of the motor. Remove all spark plugs. Install the headers from the top. Put in a couple of bolts to hold the headers in place.

8. Install the starter. This is where I spent a LOT of time wrapping the 3 wires in heat proof wrap, and then through bent tubing that I bent to shield the heat from the header. The header tubes will melt anything in contact so everything plastic can not touch the tubes. It is hard to explain what I did but I bent some steel tubing, and the cut out a small portion to allow a hold to be drilled though. I used this to thread a header bolt through to hold in place. I ended up with the starter wires going through my tubing, while being attached to something solid so it can not move and no wiring will be burned.

9. Install your spark plugs while header is loose for better access.

10. Torque down your headers.

11. Start it up b/c everyone should see what open headers should sound like.

12. Research the mufflers, buy an x pipe, buy the muffler, go down to exhaust shop to route the exhaust pipe or attempt yourself. I am not that good of a backyard mechanic where I can bend pipe of that size. I also did not want to buy a jegs or equivlant prebent as I hate clamps and can not weld that well. I want a fully welded system so personally I have to take it in. I am actually going to dump mine at the rear axle but that is what I like, other may want it over the axles and at the stock location.

13 Have FUN!!!

straight plugs, 1 5/8" primaries, 2.5" collectors would be best but 3" collectors would be ok (as long as there's floor pan clearance) cause I'll have room to reduce into the 2.5" Pypes system.
How's the clearance around the plug wires with the Hooker Comps 2451. What plugs are you using?

I ran these with both stock cast iron heads & also now with the Brodix. Clearance is even better with the aluminum heads & autolite gasketed plugs.

The worst tube is @ the #6 plug with the cast iron heads tapered seat, I ran Bosch platinums as they were the shortest available over the counter. They were about 1/8" longer than Accel shorties. They were close there, but with careful plug wire routing the boots never burnt.

Shane

Oh and as far as headers with 1 5/8" primaries & 2.5" collectors. The only ones I have found are Hedman Elites, Dougs Headers, or Thorley.

Shane

I have 2451s as well. They fit with z-bar. But I won't be able to comment on plugs & wires until the spring.

Hedman Hedders part # 65104 fit angle and straight plugs, Manual and Auto trans, are 1.75" primaries, 3" collectors. fit nice and snug near the floor and install VERY easily.
They are a great header.

I didn't want the low dragging collectors/reducers so I went with Sanderson Street Rod (block hugger) short tube headers. These are 1 3/4 primary, 3" collector and you won't have to remove the subframe/crossmember connector or anything else to install them. I then welded up some pre-bent 2 1/2" tubes with a Summit X-pipe kit and it all tucks up very nicely only 1/2" lower than the subframe!

Yes but every shorty I checked will not fit a manual... does yours?

I didn't want the low dragging collectors/reducers so I went with Sanderson Street Rod (block hugger) short tube headers. These are 1 3/4 primary, 3" collector and you won't have to remove the subframe/crossmember connector or anything else to install them. I then welded up some pre-bent 2 1/2" tubes with a Summit X-pipe kit and it all tucks up very nicely only 1/2" lower than the subframe!

That's exactly what I did and have now (only with the Pypes X system). But I figured the shorties defeat the performance/flow gains of the new e-tecs.

My block huggers have the collector right next to the engine mount. See part number CC3 on Sanderson's web site:

http://www.sandersonheaders.com/index.php?cPath=21_23_35

They are heavy gauge steel with very thick flanges. The only problem I had was the mount bolts on the outside of the first and last tubes. I had to shave the bolt heads - I put the thread end in the drill and run it against a metal file. This may have been due to my Canfield heads...I don't know for sure.

I was/am more interested in fit than flow, so I didn't worry about losing the advantages of long, equal-length tubes. These headers are certain to flow WAY better then manifolds and they fit very nicely - that's a win/win in my book.

Mine are a little shorter, real shorties....you can see here...
http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/gallery/data/584/medium/enginebay1.jpg

I just installed Flowtechs in mine with little to no effort.
They fit perfect.
http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r133/79z/undercarriage2.jpg

i also have a pair of Hooker Comps 2541 that i just installed. I had to buy some Accel Shorty plugs for the #6 spark plug like someone else mentioned, and i have stock heads right now. i also bought some heat sleaves to make sure my wires didn't melt. im still working on the rest of the exhaust so i haven't driven it but im pretty sure they'll be ok.

on the passenger side i had to remove my starter which wasn't too much of a pain. but the drivers side slide right in. U'll have to remove ur frame connectors for the headers though :(

but i think they're a pretty good header, i got them for free though, i dont know if i'd spend all that money on them, but thats just me..

Just asking for more input on using the Hooker Headers P/N 2451.

I can buy some never mounted "used" 2451's for $100.

They have Black coating, so I need to find out what Seattle area coating is best bang for the buck????

Thanks, Chuck