:screwup: :screwup: :screwup:
Anyone want to buy a big piece of crap ??

http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/Aceshigh22/Personal%20Pics/th_MOV02056.jpg (http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f122/Aceshigh22/Personal%20Pics/?action=view&current=MOV02056.flv)

so youve concluded it is in fact a rod knock :(
that blows man

wow sounds bad but that is with no oil psi so would be hard to say what noise is?that blows but if they are going to pull pan for pump they better check rods sorry.........

sorry to hear that bro....have the thing tore down. That is definitely not a good sound.

so youve concluded it is in fact a rod knock :(
that blows man

No.......but I know the engine isn't getting oil.
I just have never heard a piston slap personally but I HAVE heard rods knocking.

That just sounded too loud to be anything other than a rod knocking to me.....but I know
Knuckle Dragger said they do kinda sound similar so I'm going to start with the oil pump.

it's the cheaper of the 2. Besides, another local LS1 engine shop said most likely
the oil pump lost it's prime, and might need to be removed and packed with assembly oil.
My shop said they've NEVER used assembly oil because it's so thick, and every engine they
put a new pump in worked fine on the first startup without it.....
It's 4 hours of labor @ $75 an hour.......so $300 in labor....which sucks ass.
So there's no point in wasting the time just to put the old one back in there......
I'm spending the $170 for the SLP one and I'm going to cross my fingers because if this fails
I'm seriously going to be upset,

So I'm kinda stuck here ........going to try the $500 option first.....

aces, is that a new engine? Just curious...

Dumb question.

I heard the knock, then I heard it smooth out. Was that your car, or was that something in the background?

Dam bud that sucks hopefully its not goin to be that much to fix fingers crossed

IMHO an oil pump will not fix that problem. The damage is already done hence the knocking or a spun bearing.

If you want a peace of mind while revving the shit out of that thing, find a shop to rebuild it or search on LS1tech for shops around you that can help.

That sound reminds me of my first SBC which had an oiling issue...low pressure. It sounded like that while I was on the interstate. next thing I know I was on the roadside with the engine smoking like cheech

yah i heard it smooth out too? or are we just on crack? if so... thanks ryan for sharing that crack lmao

Dumb question.

I heard the knock, then I heard it smooth out. Was that your car, or was that something in the background?

There was an Eagle Talon on the dyno behind me.....

No, my car was knockin the whole time.....til he shut it off.

aces, is that a new engine? Just curious...

No......2004 GTO engine with 26K on the odometer totalled.
I bought the engine. :screwup:

IMHO an oil pump will not fix that problem. The damage is already done hence the knocking or a spun bearing.


If that really is the case..........I don't know man, I'm going to lose it. I'm seriously going to lose it.....
If I hear that, I want to set this piece of crap on fire and launch it off a ramp into a lake. :mad:

I'm so pissed right now........I'm out so much money on this piece of crap fukun car.......
Owned it for 12 years now......driven it maybe 1 , I'm fukin stupid for even buying this damn thing.
I'll know by the end of the week what I'm going to do with it.....once he replaces that oil pump I'm trying that first.

I have the mindset that this thing fuk'ed me, and no one is getting it.....I'll destroy it first for the satisfaction of my money.

IMHO an oil pump will not fix that problem. The damage is already done hence the knocking or a spun bearing.

If you want a peace of mind while revving the shit out of that thing, find a shop to rebuild it or search on LS1tech for shops around you that can help.

That sound reminds me of my first SBC which had an oiling issue...low pressure. It sounded like that while I was on the interstate. next thing I know I was on the roadside with the engine smoking like cheech
Sorry to hear the knock.. it ain't good
I'd put it on the rack, drop the pan and start checking rod caps... It won't take long to find it
Hang in there man...

Did you get any type of guarantee with the engine purchase? Did the seller misrepresent the condition of the engine?

By the way, the side pipes look killer!

This whole thing sucks! I wish you luck!

I don't think an oil pump is going to fix that either. Save your $500 and put it towards a rebuild.

IIRC, that oil pump is crank driven, not like an oil pump on an old SBC, so if you put a new pump on it, run it on the engine with a bad rod, you would literally be running a bunch of crap through a brand new oil pump and still need the rod knock fixed, which would therefore mean you'd have to buy a NEW oil pump anyway because the one you just put on has already had a bunch of metal run through it.

Did the seller misrepresent the condition of the engine?

Yes, the advertisement says "engine tested and runs fine".....
DOES NOT say "Warranty included"
but also DOES NOT say "Sold as is". so it's a gray area.....
either way a $4700 purchase shouldn't be allowed to sell junk parts if that really is the case.
There MIGHT be some kind of buyers protection.....but after what additional legal cost to me???

This is why I'm holding onto hope that it's REALLY just the oil pump.
If that fails, then I'm going to freak.....

My girls telling me to call a lawyer if that happens, but in all honesty, I just see more
money being wasted on a lawyer for nothing. The only REAL recourse is a completely
different one......IF they screwed me, then they know they did......

I'm biding my time for this week to see what they say after they get the new pump in.

They tried to make me feel better by showing me some other guys LS1 he bought off ebay
and one of the heads was replaced VERY recently, and the valve covers had what looked
like peanut butter all over the inside of them. They said his engine was screwed too......and
he didn't know yet......If there isn't a buyers protection for these kinds of things, then they
leave the people with no other choice....
Then I'm going to wait for the owner of the place I bought it from to call me......
I'm not flying off the hilt until those 2 variables are played out.

Another dumb question.

Is there oil IN it?

I'm just wondering if they started it with no oil

Aces, I know how you feel, been there. If this is not your daily driver, the best thing is to just put it away for awhile. You two will make up again...

Another dumb question.

Is there oil IN it?

I'm just wondering if they started it with no oil

Yes. They did put oil in it because they had to remove the oil pan, again and
rehook up the oil pickup tube and install the Fbody windage tray I bought.
That was the first question that was asked.

First full crank over they had was when they got the gas tank back this week.

I think I'm going to ask more people who are mechanics to give an opinion on LS1tech to see
if this REALLY sounds like it is POSSIBLY piston slap........I'm just not 100% sure and I have
absolutely NO idea......all I can see is red right now. You have no idea how pissed i am.

That SUCKS!
I can tell you that's NOT the LS1 piston slap sound that everyone talks about.
Did you buy this off ebay? If so, contact them asap and put in a claim. It can't hurt.

Yes, the advertisement says "engine tested and runs fine".....


Not to say they misrepresented the engine, but I've already seen it when I was working parttime at a service station, bought car in to change the oil, ran fine coming in, all they did was remove oil, change filter, put new oil in, upon start up, spun bearing.

All I can say is Good Luck, hope it all works out...

Yes. They did put oil in it because they had to remove the oil pan, again and
rehook up the oil pickup tube and install the Fbody windage tray I bought.
That was the first question that was asked.

First full crank over they had was when they got the gas tank back this week.

I think I'm going to ask more people who are mechanics to give an opinion on LS1tech to see
if this REALLY sounds like it is POSSIBLY piston slap........I'm just not 100% sure and I have
absolutely NO idea......all I can see is red right now. You have no idea how pissed i am.


Ace,
If they had the oil pan off to install a windage tray for you, they shoulda checked ALL the rods and mains.
If I have the oil pan off on a motor that I was installing and didnt personally hear it run. I would check the bearings! At the least the rear main and a couple rods.

That SUX big time dude!!!

I dont think its the oil pump but pray I am wrong. Have them check the rods while you have the oil pan off no dought.

Mark

Only thing that catches my attention is that the guy related the motor was tested and ran fine. If the car was totaled then how did they test the motor? I would contact him and tell him what happened and that a shop did all the work not just you in the back yard. maybe he will do something for you.

If all turns out to be the worst walk away from it for a while and get your mind on something else. You need not waste the whole project because of a set back as big as it may be. Don't let it beat you Ace.

Hey Ace, don't let this setback get to you. I thought I was going to get my car running over a year ago. Had to change the transmission. I got that done and thought I was free and clear. Went to start it up, instant waterfall under the car. Freeze plug went out. Thought I only had to change one till I inspected a couple more. More than a year later and my engine is STILL out and I haven't been able to touch it. And I don't have the money to do what I know needs to be done. Then I see you getting all this stuff done and not being able to handle a setback. Not that it pisses me off, but I think I'm on a different level than you are. I've changed my getting pissed of and wanting to quit attitude to a "This isn't going to beat me" attitude. I make it my goal to show the car who's boss. What I don't have is the finances to back this up. What I'm really trying to say here is that you have to take a step back and refocus yourself. Don't let it get to you. Take it in stride and make your goal to get it running if it kills you. Once it's done, I'll guarantee you that you'll have an amazing feeling of accomplishment inside you. Don't let it beat you, beat it.

If all turns out to be the worst walk away from it for a while and get your mind on something else. You need not waste the whole project because of a set back as big as it may be. Don't let it beat you Ace.

Good advice.....I know....it won't beat me.
Sometimes I just wonder if all these bad things are happening for a reason....
Seriously NOTHING on this car has worked out for me easily....nothing.
Yet I keep pouring money into it hoping for some satisfaction.....

I thought I got a great deal on the motor.....only to find this out.
Now all that excitement goes down the sh*tter....with more money.
The dilemma at hand is ......car is there at shop 1 hour away.....

if I yank the car , all it will do is piss me off sitting in my garage eating up space.
Not having it here is keeping it in good shape......trust me.
If I hit it one time, I'll get pissed cuz I dented it, and then it's all over.....
12 years of aggravation.....that's what this has been for me,
all hope.....but aggravation was the results...yet I still try....I'm stupid

Man bro I am reading all of this and really feeling for you.

I know it is the 25th time someone has told you to hang in there, but man you gotta.

This is the pain that these cars cause that build so much love from us, for them.

It makes it worth it in the end because nobody really wants what comes easy when it comes right down to it.

It is a REAL relationship, you have to have hard times and good times to make even everything out. You also have to live with your ride to make sure it is the one for you.

Stay strong, bro.

Dude, this car is whipping your ass. And that is not like you to let that happen. You are better than that!!!

Added a windage tray? how do you know the crank is not slapping the tray?

Whatever the problem is, FIX IT, and move on. This could have happened with a brand new engine!! The last thing I would do, is let an inanimate object, beat my ass.

And there would be nothing more pitiful, than watching some poor slob, baseball batting his car to death, or setting fire to it and running it into a pond.
Come one dude, I would expect more from you. Find out what the prob is and move on.

Dude, all you did was put a new engine in. Do a frame off and multiply your potential prob's 10-fold!!!! Put it into perspective.

FIX IT AND MOVE ON. Life's too short to let a car whip your ass!!

Aceshigh,

That's seems way too loud to be piston slap. I had slap with the stock LS1, and even more with a built 6.0 forged bottom end ... Nothing near what I'm hearing in your vid.

If you have zero oil pressure, it's probably a pinched/poorly seated oil pump pickup o-ring ... If you've been on LS1tech, you'll know that this happens a LOT when people remove and reinstall the pickup tube.


Yes. They did put oil in it because they had to remove the oil pan, again and
rehook up the oil pickup tube and install the Fbody windage tray I bought.
That was the first question that was asked.

First full crank over they had was when they got the gas tank back this week.

I think I'm going to ask more people who are mechanics to give an opinion on LS1tech to see
if this REALLY sounds like it is POSSIBLY piston slap........I'm just not 100% sure and I have
absolutely NO idea......all I can see is red right now. You have no idea how pissed i am.

If you have zero oil pressure, it's probably a pinched/poorly seated oil pump pickup o-ring ... If you've been on LS1tech, you'll know that this happens a LOT when people remove and reinstall the pickup tube.

No, I didn't know that. I will pass that on though, thanks.

Who are you??
Seemed odd to me you have 1 post and made a special appearance
here to comment on this topic all the sudden....ironic is all. ;)
Just curious......


FIX IT AND MOVE ON. Life's too short to let a car whip your ass!!

Inspirational attempt acknowledged......
But what's worse??? Takin the ass whippin in the wallet, and knowing when
to say "Okay, enough is enough"......or continuing on losing more money....
Depends on your perception I guess.....

I'm just debating if this hobby is good for someone of my caliber of patience and skillset.
It's not about losing to an inanimate object to me.....it's about losing MORE money to me...
I view it differently I guess. Winning against an inanimate object doesn't mean anything to me.
Would I feel better beating it ?? Yes, .....but I know I'd probably regret it for the short
euphoric experience it would provide.

I have a very busy life, no time for BS......lack of necessary skillz in this hobby....makes it difficult.

This is all that keeps going through my head tonight.....
10 years + with $26,000+ invested and no "Return on Investment" (aka "fun")
is just a really stupid decision to any person who is looking to justify an investment.

That......and the 2009 Camaro is coming soon.....

Take the Busa out for a ride Ace, A lil motivation is what you need. I put my project on hold cuz it was causing too much stress and anxiety in my life.

It is my hobby. period!! when it no longer brings me pleasure and instead gives me grief I turn it OFF! walk away.... find another hobbie for a while. Come back to it next week..... next month... or next year.. Its fun sometimes to come back fresh and blow the dust off.

If funds are getting shy, bring it home. Dont beat it up but rather stroke it gently feeling its pain.. Have sympathy for the car Only YOU can bring it to life once again!

LOve it Bro!! dont hate it. thats not productive.

Bla Bla Bla...


Mark

thats hotrodding for ya. here is an idea

pull the LS1 out, get a LQ9 for about $500. transfer the pan, intake and accessories from the LS1 to the LQ9, go on powertour while you have the LS1 being rebuilt at your wallets convenience.

i would be going thru the roof at this point can that guy feel your hands on his neck

Take the Busa out for a ride Ace, A lil motivation is what you need. I put my project on hold cuz it was causing too much stress and anxiety in my life.

It is my hobby. period!! when it no longer brings me pleasure and instead gives me grief I turn it OFF! walk away.... find another hobbie for a while. Come back to it next week..... next month... or next year.. Its fun sometimes to come back fresh and blow the dust off.

Actually.....that made alot of sense. There's snow on the ground here.....too cold for the Busa, besides I'd probably rip up to 180mph and kill myself being stupid and careless in my misery. I'm frustrated, and I usually will go motocrossing if I'm aggravated and run myself into a tree or something.....

LQ9 ?? For $500 ?? Hows that even possible ??

Not to say they misrepresented the engine, but I've already seen it when I was working parttime at a service station, bought car in to change the oil, ran fine coming in, all they did was remove oil, change filter, put new oil in, upon start up, spun bearing.

I guess I'll have to consider that as a reality here.......
I wouldn't want to take this out on an innocent person if the variables don't add up in a line :(
I'll end up eating it, I already know it.....

SEND THE video to the place where you bought it from ,and if i am not wrong ,i think there are a few members that live in huntsville which is close to ardmore ,that could pay them a visit for you ..

Did you use pay pal when you purchased the motor off e-bay??? If the shop had the pan off to install some new parts I would want to be there when they pull it off. I would want to see how the windage tray was installed. More than likely it's mounted to a main cap. Did they also put in a new pick up tube? I would want to see the torque spec on the main before it is taken off and also see the connection of the pickup tube when the pan is taken off.

Good Luck Man were all feeling the pain.

Didn't make a special appearance just to reply to your topic. ;) I just bought a '70 Camaro I pan to use for a LS1/T56 retro fit this past Sunday and saw nasty28 referenced in the hybrid/conversion forum on LS1tech. I have been a member on camaroz28 and LS1tech for quite some time (almost 9 years on cz28). Just happened that your post was the first I replied to on here ... I wasn't going to miss out on a thread titled "What an $11K rod knock sounds like".

Anyway, the likelyhood of it being the o-ring is extremely high - I'd bet money on it. If it were a '98-'99 motor, then the pump bypass valve would be suspect, but an '04 motor after someone removed/reinstalled the pick up screams of a poorly seated o-ring.

Eddie

No, I didn't know that. I will pass that on though, thanks.

Who are you??
Seemed odd to me you have 1 post and made a special appearance
here to comment on this topic all the sudden....ironic is all. ;)
Just curious......

If it is a poorly seated O ring (which sounds very logical to me) then I say they ran it for awhile with that o ring not seated and now damge is done.

Being that they had the pan off I would definetly have a talk with them because if the rod knock and low oil pressure was already there they would have noticed it in the pan. Not huge pieces but definitely bearing shavings.

Well....I'm hoping for the best....and that's its someone else's fault, and they penny up the funds to get it fixed.

But I will toss this out to you....

If you had put in that crate 454 HO....you'd be on the road by now bro....:confused:

N.B.L.... :crazy:

Take a breather....and figure out the game plan....

I didn't read all of this, so there might be stuff I'm missing.

Why would they, or anyone, need to drop the oil pan and replace a windage tray?

It took a lot of cutting/bending/grinding to get a stok windage tray into my 427 oil pan. I can just imagine the noise if one rod bolt or counter balance was hitting it.

I still don't see why there was a need to change the windage tray from one to the other. Shouldn't make much of a difference between the two at all, if any. And yeah, knowing that, it does sound like the o-ring wasn't seated correctly. If there's any leak through there, it's very likely that you won't be picking up any oil pressure at all. I'd also wonder if they installed it dry or put some lube on the o-ring when installing it. I've known some decent shops to forget a tiny thing like that and have to eat the cost of a new engine. If your shop did it, and the engine is toast, I'd think they would have to eat the cost of the rebuild.

It sounds like they didn't verify oil pressure before firing it up....

Every motor I've ever started up for the first time I've spun it over and made sure I had an oil pressure gauge hooked up and looked for good oil pressure before I let it fire up.

Good luck, don't let it get you down.

Just do your part to spur the economy ;)

Not to say they misrepresented the engine, but I've already seen it when I was working parttime at a service station, bought car in to change the oil, ran fine coming in, all they did was remove oil, change filter, put new oil in, upon start up, spun bearing.

Read your service manuals carefully. Many manufacturers today specify that you must prefill the oil filter when changing oil on the newer engines to help prevent this kind of damage. Even a few seconds without oil pressure can damage newer engines.

I still don't see why there was a need to change the windage tray from one to the other. Shouldn't make much of a difference between the two at all, if any.

You're not familiar with the LSx series engines.

They have a different oil pan design for each chassis and the windade tray varies for each, there are actually two windage trays in the motor, one attached to the mains, another attached to the oil pan.
It does make a difference.

Walk this thing back slowly Aces. You have a motor that was hopefully pre ran and checked out ok before you bought it. You had this shop install a new pan and windage tray(which included r&r of the p/u tube) which you PAYED them to do. Once the motor was installed and plumbed, the motor was started and two things were noticed imediately
1. The motor was making a knocking noise
2. there was no oil pressure

The oiling system was obviously messed with to change the oil pan. The oil system IS LIKELY you problem. The problem will probably be as a result of a faulty reasembly of the oil pick-up. I am sure that "it happens". but I would think that a compatent shop would have used a little more caution when starting your motor for the first time. That's why you paid professionals isn't it? They probably should have verified oil pressure before running the motor.

Man. You need to at least be there when the pan comes off. I would take the motor to a machine shop and have them take the pan and pump ass. apart and document what they find. I bet at the end of all of this it will be the shop that has caused the problem. weather or not you have any proof depends on the next few steps you take right now. Trust me. If they take the pan off without you being present. they will not admit a fault that could have cuased the damage. good luck..Johnny

They probably should have verified oil pressure before running the motor.



How are you going to verify oil pressure on an LSx without running it?

He probably meant doing something like unplugging the coil harness and building oil pressure with the starter.


How are you going to verify oil pressure on an LSx without running it?

He probably meant doing something like unplugging the coil harness and building oil pressure with the starter.

Yes that can be done but at that point you might as well start it for a few seconds.

I agree. Either way, if it didn't build pressure after ~3 seconds, they should have killed it and checked that the pickup o-ring wasn't pinched and the pump was good.

Yes that can be done but at that point you might as well start it for a few seconds.

I didn't read all of this, so there might be stuff I'm missing.

Why would they, or anyone, need to drop the oil pan and replace a windage tray?

My LS1 is from a GTO.
GTO oil pans dont' fit in my car, so I had to purchase a used F-body one.
In the process of installing the Fbody one I tried hooking up the oil pickup tube to the windage tray.......only to find out it wouldn't work.

So I had to go buy an F-body windage tray too. So I finished installing the pan, and left it as is for them.
I never put it in, so I dropped off my LS1 to the shop still sitting on the crate
My new windage tray was in a box along with the pickup tube in it.
I told them several times PLEASE do not forget to install the pickup tube.
They said 100% for sure it's in there......

However, now this O-ring thing is making me wonder, so I want to be there the day they take it out so I can ensure they didn't forget it. IF they did, and they see it, naturally they won't want to eat the costs of a rebuild, so they'll probably slap one on quickly. I will have to call them tomorrow and ensure I have them yank the engine and I'm going to verify that O-ring is on it.
If it's not, I'm going to tell them they are rebuilding the motor because they should have known better. They ARE an LS1 shop
so I'm assuming they'd realise if it wasn't there. So if it isn't, there's no excuse. I'm still holding out hope for the oil pump fixing the PSI issue, and then taking it from there.

How are you going to verify oil pressure on an LSx without running it?

Good point.
Guess it's impossible.

Man I have been suspect of this shop, to be honest.

I know you had/have no choice and not knocking your decision.

But enough is enough.

I must admit that 99% of the time when something screws up you ALWAYS go back and look at what you worked on last etc. That would be the OILING system in this case and now what??? OILING system problems?

This is a reputable shop and I am sure you did your homework, so there should be no AMATEUR moments.

And no excuses.

Go get em Aces.

The only thing the shop did that wasn't good up til now is hook up an oil pressure gauge upon first crank over.

That's about all I can surmise from the whole scenario.
It's definitely NOT enough IMO to say they're amateurs or finger point.
They built quite a few race cars and they were even on "Pinks" with a 4th gen.
They do have a good reputation and a long history of car builds with all LS1 engines.
I can't in good faith blame them for this.....not until more is discovered becase
there's so many unknown variables and some variables that say "Shit happens"....so ya know....

And fords too.....

Not too many shops work on LS1's without you paying for their O.J.T. (on job training) ;)

I doubt they left the o-ring off entirely, but you never know. Look for signs of it being pinched or otherwise damanged. Also make sure they used a NEW o-ring ... It's a one time use only part!

I doubt they left the o-ring off entirely, but you never know. Look for signs of it being pinched or otherwise damanged. Also make sure they used a NEW o-ring ... It's a one time use only part!

Thanks Eddie, sorry about questioning you.
It just seemed quite odd to me the timing of your joining, and you had 1 post.
I thought maybe you were someone else. Thanks for your input . :)

How are you going to verify oil pressure on an LSx without running it?


If there's a port for a sending unit then you should be able to hook up a mechanical gauge (I prefer to remove the fuel injector fuses instead of disconnecting the coils) crank the motor over and build oil pressure, once you verify that then you put the fuses back in and fire it up.

if there gunna put a new oil pump in it there gunna be right there at the oring. they could just say the pump was bad but it was really the o-ring installed wrong.