And it doesn't look good. Both the motor, and the crud I found in the pan..
My 7:00AM wake-up call.. LOL!
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/stillin.jpg
Motor finally out and on the stand.. I didn't realize just how filthy the motor had gotten... not a lot of time for detailing...:rolleyes:
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motorout2.jpg
It had a nasty exhaust leat... but so what. Anybody notice the pylons in the background :o
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motorout.jpg
After finding about 2 tablespoons of long curly shavings complimented with bits of insert in the pan... I didn't have the heart to pop the bearing caps today.
I did look at the oil pump and it didn't show any stress cracks or casting issues... but it was chewed-up pretty good inside where it had ingested shavings. I will see if I can borrow a camera that will focus closer than 4 feet and snap a few pix.:screwup:

Time to put my feet up and enjoy a nice cold adult beverage:crazy: and try not to think about what is out in the shop....

Quite the oil pan.

It is a Stef's fabbed pan that is around 12 or 13 yrs old, actually a pretty nice piece. The old motor held-up pretty well considering who owned it:rolleyes: was actually very clean inside for a 12yrs old motor. Synthetic oil is certainly worth it;)

Like the Godfather said.... "you can act like a MAN!"

Don't be a-skeered. Get out the wrenches, yank that monster oil pan and start pulling it apart! It's gonna look pretty trashed inside, so swallow hard and tear that sucker down. Nothing to fear but fear itself. And a hefty machine shop bill to make it right, of course.

After a metal shaving carnage type incident it's important to get all the oil galley plugs out of the block and clean the heck out of it. Yes, they're still in there. Get them out or they'll eventually find their way back into your fresh rebuild.

Don't get so gung-ho that you forget to check your main cap numbering/orientation and your rod/cap numbering/orientation as you tear down. At this point wouldn't it be nice to find out it went to heck in a handbasket just becuase it had a main cap flipped around backwards or something simple like that?

Mike i WISH i had the patience you do.....those bearing caps would be unscrewing themselves if it was me damnit!!!!!!!!! LOL

So whatcha gonna do???? Power wise ;)

Hey guys.. not "skeered" just beat. I had two teenagers "helping" and spent most of my time asking them "not to do that".. or asking them to move. LOL!
One of them lifted the boom to hook the snap-hook to the lift-plate and dropped the ram right on the nose of the car...:rolleyes:
He looked like someone had just shot his dog or sumthin'.. kept muttering something about "just kick my a$$ now and get it over with". I just laughed at him and smiled.. ;) Told him he could make amends by cutting my grass all next summer! The car needs paint anyway... and that sure would work for me! Watch someone else sweat for a change...
Not sure which way I will go this time... is a standard bore bow-tie and the cylinders look pretty good... But it will get vatted and measured before we choose a course. What I can save will chart my path...
I think most of the crud came from a solid roller-lifter failure, but won't know 'til I finish breaking it down. The internals looked new, which surprised me.... gotta love Mobil 1:)

UMMMMMM may i suggest a low compression piston 8.5:1 or so for that nice Bowtie block & a single or twin turbo blow-through motor :D

Driveability, stealth & gobs of power all at the push of just 1 gas pedal :D

i am a bit biased though....LOL


Poor guy, hes gonna be eating grass for a whole summer...make sure you DONT give the lawnmower a tune-up, make him pull that rope! Better yet, sell it & buy a push mower.....that'll teach him to pay attention LOL J/k :)

-Carm

looks like a mighty fine starting point!!

Trust me... I have considered the forced induction thing.. a buddy in Frednecksburg is making 1860hp with an FE motor in a Mustang. He owns A-1 Speed and Custom. So far he has only been able to hook 1100. Many boost bumps in the software on that car.... about every 100ft it gets a bump. Bottom line is it's just too much for a fox-chassis beater. He either "sky's" it.. or makes a 'chit-load of smoke for 1300ft.

As far as Justin goes... don't feel sorry for him. The kid is 17 and has a '68 Nova, a 78 Chevy S/W on 38" swampers, a '65 Mustang, a '63 F-250, honda rancher 450cc quad.... and eyes for my 'maro.

He came to me several years ago bored with nothing to do in the summer. I dragged him to the dump, and we brought 5 old push-mowers home. From that I was able to get 2 running well and he began his bidness. The kid has 3 lawn tractors and about a dozen 12yr olds that are his "crew"... the kids make a killing around here. Justin bought all his cars with his own money... not too bad for a high-school kid;)

Now he wants to build a stroker for his mud-buggy... should be interesting.. LOL! I wonder what I might be able to extort from him for clearancing the block...:rolleyes:

I know what would look good in that engine compartment.... ;)

http://paceperformance.com/images/products/manufacturer/GM/images/12498793.gif

Naw... I have been chasing an LS-7 that a kid I know has. But after nearly a year I have about given up. Daddy bought him a new Z-06 and he rolled it within a month.. I WANT THAT MOTOR AND TRANNY!!!!:crazy:
I think someone may have clued him as to what it was worth. I had a thread posted here and deleted it when my personal neon sign lit-up mentally. :screwup:

At one point we had a deal for 2k.... just the motor. But I haven't been able to track him down since. That was around 3 months ago.
Right now, I am having Camaro withdrawal... she needs to be on the road. The pigblock would be nice... but veeeeery expeeeensive!! With very little creativity a SBC will bark pretty flippin' loud.
I will remain on the side of goodness and all things light... no pigs on the wing here.. LOL! Damn, now I gotta go listen to some Floyd!:crazy:
http://www.ferhiga.com/progre/portadas/pink-floyd-animals.jpg

Well, I dug a little deeper into the motor today. Both center mains are spun, and it looks like the cam has a wiped-out lobe on #3 exhaust.:rolleyes:

I am pretty sick at this point regarding the spun mains... weird part is the crank looks perfect. I guessing it will require new main caps and a line bore job to repair the damage.

Curious how the clearance to the block side is restored.... if it can be. It is a bow-tie block, so it might be worth saving if it is do-able.:confused:

I can't find my 12pt thin-wall 9/16" socket:mad: , so I am off to the store. Crower rods prohibit using a standard socket... back in a bit...

pics!!!!!!!!!

Curious how the clearance to the block side is restored.... if it can be. It is a bow-tie block, so it might be worth saving if it is do-able.:confused:

maybe see if you can lay a straight edge of some kind across 2 good mains in the block to feeler guage the rough amount/depth it carved into the spun main bores in the block half. it'll give us an idea if the block can be saved or not. if it's less than .010,, it's probably fixable with a specific timing set for a line bored block. more than that gets questionable. i've sunk em into the block pretty good here and there,, but it's not pretty with the timing sets. maybe fixable though. might can weld/build it back up with brass rod then line bore it again. not sure if all that's worth it to you though. or maybe bore those 2 mains to take a bigger o.d. bearing. production is using those here and there these days on the rods. maybe available for the mains as well.

were those spun bearings froze/welded/stuck to the main journals of the crank??

maybe see if you can lay a straight edge of some kind across 2 good mains in the block to feeler guage the rough amount/depth it carved into the spun main bores in the block half. it'll give us an idea if the block can be saved or not. if it's less than .010,, it's probably fixable with a specific timing set for a line bored block. more than that gets questionable. i've sunk em into the block pretty good here and there,, but it's not pretty with the timing sets. maybe fixable though. might can weld/build it back up with brass rod then line bore it again. not sure if all that's worth it to you though. or maybe bore those 2 mains to take a bigger o.d. bearing. production is using those here and there these days on the rods. maybe available for the mains as well.

were those spun bearings froze/welded/stuck to the main journals of the crank??
Nope, that is the odd part... the crank is near perfect. The insert will rotate freely around the crank while in the block... I can't get the rod caps off right now. The Crower rods require a thin-walled socket to get them loose and I wasn't able to locate one on a sunday night. Mine seems to have taken a walk:rolleyes:

I will get a better digi camera and try to take a few pics of the inserts, crank etc... maybe post them on tuesday.
I figure if it can be welded-up and new caps installed they should be able to line bore it. Just don't know how much it will hurt as far as cost.

The really sad part is that it is a standard bore bowtie...:whine: It may be time to look for another block. Just gotta carry it to the machinist and see what he says... This is the shop that will be doing the work.. http://www.performancecountsracingengines.com/ I have heard a lot of good things about these guys. My freind (Ben Schooler) that owns A-1 swears by them, I guess we shall see.
I hope it works out...

OK the tear-down and blood-letting is over with. First I want to apologize for the crappy pics... this camera just flat sucks!!
The only issues I found were one completely wiped-out lobe and 2 lifters didn't want to come out the top.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motor%20teardown/IMG00202.jpg
It spun journals 3 & 4 with #4 showing the worst damage. Looks like the cap got pretty hot, and the inserts both want to cling to the crank, and don't fit the block saddle anymore... Almost as if the radius of the insert has been decreased.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motor%20teardown/IMG00199.jpg
As you can see the bearings were well into the copper layer and shedding bits. I found a lot of it in the pan.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motor%20teardown/IMG00198.jpg
The crank mic'd out just fine and the only indication of trouble was a few discolored streaks in the 3 & 4 journals.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motor%20teardown/IMG00208.jpg
Also discolored on the #6 (i think) rod bearing. Both occurances of discoloration are at oil passages, and other than the discoloration appear unharmed. Nitriding the crank is a plus!! As is synthetic oil!
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motor%20teardown/IMG00203.jpg
I layed the longest straitedge I own down the journals, and could detect no light under the edge..
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motor%20teardown/IMG00220.jpg
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motor%20teardown/IMG00219.jpg
All the rods, pistons and cylinders were perfect. You could hone, re-ring and go... No issues to report. All measurements came up within spec. and parts show virtully no wear at all.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motor%20teardown/IMG00225.jpg
The Brodies survived intact... the only issues are two valve tips that may have chipped very slighty from the excess slop of the cam failure.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motor%20teardown/IMG00213.jpg
No valve to piston contact as I had been worried about before I could get it apart. But she does run pig-rich sinc I don't use power valves in the carb.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motor%20teardown/IMG00216.jpg
On to post 2 as we are pic limited to 10..

It does appear there was some reversion of exhaust due to the wiped-out lobe on #6 exhaust. It looked as though the valve may have opened around 1/16" off the seat at most... so she was lugging a cylinder as well.
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r250/k5jmp/motor%20teardown/IMG00206.jpg
I am not as worried as before... it appears the inserts did their jobs and failed to protect the journals. It also appears the nitriding of the cranks was a smart choice... it faired pretty well.

Hopefully I can get it to my machinist and let him have a look later this week. He is only about 150 miles away...
Edit;
Oh yeah, one other thing... I am not pleased with the gear-drive. On the drivers side the gear centering pin and gear axle wore into the block face a bit, and into the cast cover a bit more. I can't remember who made the thing... it wasn't a pete jackson... 10yrs ago and damned if I recall.
I will be putting the external Jesel belt-drive back on it when it gets re-assmebled;)

I would say you faired well,considering. Good luck with the rebuild...Johnny