I was wondering if these heads can be revalved to 2.02 Int,1.6 exh and flow close to 350 hp with a good port job. I get different info on these doing any research some people like em some don't. If there is a better alternative I would like to stay under $800 in cost of heads.

There are many alternatives under $800
Vortecs would be the Cheapest possibly,
do you know what cam you want to use, I believe stock vortecs will require work over .480 lift? I would think someone offers them ready for $550?

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http://www.supermotors.org/getfile/163599/fullsize/Idlin%20smooth.WMV

I would stay under the .480 lift right know I have a .443 lift 225 dur cam would probably look at something bigger.
got any suggestions

For $800 you can get a set of heads that will absolutely KILL the 882's on flow numbers. Iron Eagles, Vortec, etc. Even a set of worked over camel hump heads would be better and cost less.

http://users.erols.com/srweiss/tablehdc.htm

Those heads have been tested.

i have a set of 882's,pinned studs,ported,ect.... 2.02/1.60 valves and the engine is pushing close to 400HP

you can pick up 882's all day long for almost nothing... you can usually buy a set of rebuilt 882s with 2.02/1.60s installed for maybe $200-350

You can do it with 882 heads, but they are crackprone unless you're lucky enough to get the heavy castings. I'm on the Vortec bandwagon when it comes to low dollar power. No porting necessary, just trim the stock retainers on the bottom for more lift and maybe the tops of the valve guides and you're set. Easy 375 HP. Even with a small cam that you don't need to change the retainer to guide clearance you can push 350 HP.

If you already have the 882's use'em as is but if your going to sink money in them you might as well buy vortecs new!

remember with vortecs your limited on lift and intakes

Come On Guys....

Few things I'll say..

400 hp with 882's even with porting and 2.02/1.60's NA is pushing it IMO... I have a 408 with 10-1, and I doubt it is doing 350 HP....

Next,
Vortecs would be a godo choice IMO, but trimming the bottom of the retainers is a no-no. I wouldn't even consider it. I KNOW some who have done it, as a machinist it ain't happening.

You can buy a $45 tool and fix the Vortecs to accept .600+ lift in about 30 minutes. Why risk it, why worry about it.

I would use the Vortecs or keep an eye out for a good used set of Sportsman II's.

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jakeshoe:
You can buy a $45 tool and fix the Vortecs to accept .600+ lift in about 30 minutes. Why risk it, why worry about it.

</font>


Jake, what is this tool you speak of? http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/wink.gif Is it the valveguide trimmer? Only reason I suggested trimming the bottoms of the retainers is that some guys on here have done it with great success, just don't take off more than what your keepers stick through. THEN you'd be in trouble http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/wink.gif

I would search the swap meets for some decent older heads-they can still be found cheap-I don't care what people say. Yes, most aftermarket heads will move more air than stockers (un-ported) but I prefer to do my own port work. I use a set of #461 heads which are correct for anything '64-'69 with either a 375hp 327 or a 350hp 350. They are nice ones along with 462, 186 and 291's. Keep in mind you may need to drill for accessory holes. You'd be surprised how much material can be removed from the runner walls and floors. Don't get into the roof area-just clean it up but drop the floor as much as you can-the less of an angle the air has to move towards the intake valve, the faster the airflow will be-this is more important than volume. I'd take higher velocity air movement any day over big volumes (in terms of runner cfm) that don't move well. I have about $650 total investment in these heads-2.02/1.6 Manley Street Duty valves, ARP screw-in studs, Comp Cams guideplates and a 5-angle valve job with 12 degree backcut on the valves.

[This message has been edited by gmachinz (edited January 22, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by gmachinz (edited January 22, 2005).]

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jakeshoe:


Next,
Vortecs would be a godo choice IMO, but trimming the bottom of the retainers is a no-no. I wouldn't even consider it. I KNOW some who have done it, as a machinist it ain't happening.

You can buy a $45 tool and fix the Vortecs to accept .600+ lift in about 30 minutes. Why risk it, why worry about it.
</font>

What risk, and what worry?

The Vortec retainers have excess material right where they can be trimmed, it absolutely hurts *nothing* to take it out, except to further lighten it.

For a cam of around .500" or so lift it takes all of 1/2 hour and costs nothing. I had zero problems with mine being trimmed. If I felt for one moment it would hurt anything or cause needless grief, I wouldn't have done it. With a stock diameter valvespring and relatively mild lift street cam, I wouldn't hestitate to do it again.

Sure you can spend the $45 and buy the tool, or you can trim the retainers for nothing.

You be the judge.



------------------
'Silver Bullet' 1977 Z-28 413" SB
11.73 @ 115.10 on drag radials
Old Vortec combo:
12.15 @ 110.52

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by Dirt Reynolds:
What risk, and what worry?

The Vortec retainers have excess material right where they can be trimmed, it absolutely hurts *nothing* to take it out, except to further lighten it.

For a cam of around .500" or so lift it takes all of 1/2 hour and costs nothing. I had zero problems with mine being trimmed. If I felt for one moment it would hurt anything or cause needless grief, I wouldn't have done it. With a stock diameter valvespring and relatively mild lift street cam, I wouldn't hestitate to do it again.

Sure you can spend the $45 and buy the tool, or you can trim the retainers for nothing.

You be the judge.

</font>

What if you do both? Does this gain you more than you need with one or the other?

You risk ruining the heat treat of the material when grinding it.

I nor any other machinist I know would do it. The tool is a valve guide cutter available from many sources and can be use don many sets of heads. So $45 divided by 50 sets of heads and it's less than a $1 a set of heads.

I know you have done it Dirt. I just HIGHLY recommend against it.
Vortec retainers are made with minimum material and fairly light as is.

The valve guide cutter will yield MORE than ample room for lift. If you need more room than what that makes, you'll need longer valves, and IMO a better set of heads.
Probabaly will actually get you to .700 lift but I haven't ever measured as I've never put Vortecs on anything with more than .550 lift.

And to Gmachinz,
I'd suggest you find a head porter. You almost NEVER take material away from a port floor.

<font face="Arial,Verdana" size="2">Originally posted by jakeshoe:
You risk ruining the heat treat of the material when grinding it.
</font>

Well, since I used to heat treat steel for a living, I have some insight to that dept. It takes more than grinding on the bottoms of those retainers for a minute or so to hurt the hardness aspect. They are made from a quality steel alloy and are through-hardened. You would need to take them up to about 500 degrees F and hold it there for about 8-10 minutes to soften (temper) the steel, which I just don't see happening.


I know you have done it Dirt. I just HIGHLY recommend against it.
Vortec retainers are made with minimum material and fairly light as is.

This is true, however, the area in which the material is removed serves no purpose at all. The valve locks are well above that area, and there is simply no reason for it to be there in the first place. It's pretty easy to see that when you look at it mocked-up on a work bench.

The steel itself is of high grade, not like the old small block stock retainers, which is why they are lighter. My guess is they are also pretty close to file hardened (about 52 Rc) which makes them extremely tough.

I raced the car with those retainers all season back in '03, and racked up plenty of street miles as well. When I recently race-ported the Vortecs for a friend of mine who bought all my old stuff the retainers looked the same as when I put them on.

I qualify the above by saying that if you have the cutter, by all means cut down the guides. But for the average guy with a street performance hyd. cam using mild stock dia. valve springs, I really don't see a problem with the retainer mod.

But that is my one-man's opinion.

------------------
'Silver Bullet' 1977 Z-28 413" SB
11.73 @ 115.10 on drag radials
Old Vortec combo:
12.15 @ 110.52

don't invest that kind of money in 882's,spend on good heads,I had a set of 882 and just put on some trick flow sbc aluminum heads and picked up 4 tenths in the 1/8th and they strat at $1000.00 out of summit.They are the same price as dart iron eagle but half the weight,and are 195cc runners.

Vortecs arent cheap once you consider you need a different intake, center-bolt valve covers, guided rockers and a valve spring upgrade. Easily over $800. Might as well buy some Trick Flow or Edelbrock heads.
If you want low buck Sallee-Chevrolet.com has some World Products heads on clearance, or look at some ads in Chevy Hi Performance mag for some good heavyweight castings that have been all done up.

I wouldn't buy Vortecs new...
I would buy a set of used ones for about half the cash or less. I was getting them for $100-150 a pr here from my delaership buddies.

Say $200 for a pr of Vortecs, add $30 for some Z/28 spec springs, $65 for a valve job, $40 to cut the guides at teh same time, and your into a set for $350 or maybe $400 if you elect to surface them, etc..

If you buy them used they should have rockers, the rockers have been the same since 1987 so no biggie, and stock type rockers will get you into the 11's.. and work fine with a ~.500 lift cam.

Intakes can be had used or new off brand etc.. for $100-$150.

So for less than $600 you can do the whole deal.

There are some good deals to be had on aftermarket heads too...

If he already has an intake, then a different set of heads might be a better choice.
If not, he can buy the Vortec style for about the same...

Another note on the guide cutter...
It cuts the outer diameter of the overly large Vortec guides down so that you can run a double spring, or even just a singel with a damper...

2 improvements in one...

Dirt,
If a guy takes his time, I doubt any heat treating problems would result, but the material that you maybe considering "extra" was probably designed into it by GM for a reason.

Anytime you take material away you have in some way altered the strength. Will it matter..? Maybe not, as in your case it worked well. It is just not worth the risk. Would you risk a motor for a $45 difference?

For that matter, a guy COULD just use a grinder on top of the valve guides themselves. I WOULD do this personally before I would mess with the retainers.

Use a hand grinder to trim the guide boss down as wanted, then a sander to dress it up, then a reamer to deburr the valve guide at the top...