I gotta bring this back up b/c there was just TOO much info in it EXCEPT for the pi--ing contest!!

I have read more than once or twice that our stock block SB engines tend to split right down the "V" when they get around 750 hp JUST like the Ford 5.0Motors do!!

You know you undo the intake and the pan and it falls in two chunks sorta split!!

That said, If I had a full machine shop and the rules were that I had to use a STOCK block and I wanted to blow it and gas it for MAX power regardless AND I had to race it full-tilt for say 4 hours AT max rpm and POWER, I would do NO more than install the best five-main cap girdle I could make as well as install a flat piece of maybe 3/16" to a 1/4" thick chrome/moly plate steel on top of one deck and then bent/machined so it located right and then went over to the other deck and fit the same.

This would effectively tie BOTH the top "V" together as well as the bottom of the block almost 100 percent together in their respective locations so that imho, I could make whatever power with it that I wanted it to!! And I figure it it would hold together..

And if you really wanted to get serious here, both the girdle as well as the top plate could have outside tab's so that long bolts with spacers could be bolted through both to effectively tie the outside top of the engine/plate to the bottom of the engine using the girdle!!

That way, I doubt if a stick of dynamite would blow a crank out the bottom of the engine!!! I figure I'd blow both heads off first!!

Let the comments FLY!!

pdq67

Ps., and I'm not going to cylinder wall strengths and ductile-iron sleeves!!

Just thought I would be the first to say "Joe Sherman"

Carry on http://smiliesftw.com/x/xmasgrin.gif

That said, If I had a full machine shop and the rules were that I had to use a STOCK block and I wanted to blow it and gas it for MAX power regardless AND I had to race it full-tilt for say 4 hours AT max rpm and POWER, I would do NO more than install the best five-main cap girdle I could make as well as install a flat piece of maybe 3/16" to a 1/4" thick chrome/moly plate steel on top of one deck and then bent/machined so it located right and then went over to the other deck and fit the same.

This would effectively tie BOTH the top "V" together as well as the bottom of the block almost 100 percent together in their respective locations so that imho, I could make whatever power with it that I wanted it to!! And I figure it it would hold together..
Ps., and I'm not going to cylinder wall strengths and ductile-iron sleeves!!
Already been invented & patented by a fella who lives 2 miles away from me.
"Valley Girdle Pro" By Horsepower Sales Inc.
www.horsepowersales.net
$179 for the SBC

From what I have seen using the girdles on the mains does not make the webbing of the block any stronger and they are hard to use with strokers and lije people say use studs on a 2 bolt main and by adding the studs it does not make the caps and stronger as they are just a grey cast cap that is no stronger.

Most of the shops I deal with that are going to build a natualy asperated engine that makes 750 plus horse power are going to have a fair amount of money tied up in some very high end parts and to use a stock block I really don't see that happening.

Watch out for the guy that will tell you Joe Sherman used a stock block at the engine masters challange (YA RIGHT) and made over 850 horse and I Knew the truth would soon come out on that issue. HMMMMMMMM

And engines that are making 750 horse will make better power using a block designed for that type of power as you have read what Joe Sherman found using a good block over a stock block.

And using plates on the top and the bottom of a block does not do anything to strenthen the decks of the block or the cylinders.

Is this going to start again?

Yes, I was not involved in that one!!!

quick, let me get my chair and some popcorn.....

Guys, I'm gonna pull a Stewart G. Griffin on you so sit back and read along and hopefully WE all will learn a thing or two... Beside's, aren't we just having fun in the first place....

Bttt..

Carl,

He, He!! Look no farther than MAX. effort Briggs&Stratton engines!!!

I know I'm dreaming b/c I don't have a full machine shop to do it...

Are you telling me that putting a full STEEL 5-main girdle on the bottom of an engine that's made to be able to be tension/tie-bolted to a top plate that is also ran across the decks and "V" flat to tie the "V" together wouldn't make a stock block substantially stronger so doesn't work??

Then why are SOME engines made so that the head-bolts run ALL the way down to the main bulkhead areas! And why are guys putting plates on top of engines to hold them together? I may be thinking Honda and some of the other ricer 4-bangers, but none-the-less!!

And that they EVEN make girdles in the first place for, I think top fuel dragsters???

Heck, the Olds guys have been milling their two-bolt main caps flat for years and just installing 1/2" thick steel flat reinforcement pieces on top of them for a long time to strengthen their old motors.. I think they also install bigger diameter main cap bolts too. Their old 394 max. stroked blocks come to mind here???

And fwiw, I learned years ago while in ME school that a crack can't start in a part if the part is under compression!!!!!

I know what I am talking about isn't the cheapest way OR for that matter all that practical to make an engine STRONGER, but I figure IF I had to use a stock block and had to make as much power out of it as I could and then run it wide open for hours, I figure it would work fine!!

The whole thing would probably end up being sacrificial, but I bet it would hold togerther to finish the race!!

pdq67

PS., still dreaming right along, I figure that to really do the top plate right, I would go ALL OUT and furnace braze it in place!!! Then come back and blue-print the complete block..

Guys, I'm gonna pull a Stewart G. Griffin on you so sit back and read along and hopefully WE all will learn a thing or two... Beside's, aren't we just having fun in the first place....

Bttt..

Carl,

I know I'm dreaming b/c I don't have a full machine shop to do it...

Are you telling me that putting a full STEEL 5-main girdle on the bottom of an engine that's made to be able to be tension/tie-bolted to a top plate that is also ran across the decks and "V" flat to tie the "V" together wouldn't make a stock block substantially stronger so doesn't work??

Then why are engines made so that the head-bolts run ALL the way down to the main bulkhead areas! And why are guys putting plates on top of engines to hold them together? I may be thinking Honda and some of the other ricer 4-bangers, but none-the-less!!

And that they EVEN make girdles in the first place for, I think top fuel dragsters???

Heck, the Olds guys have been milling their two-bolt main caps flat for years and just installing 1/2" thick steel flat reinforcement pieces on top of them for a long time to strengthen their old motors.. I think they also install bigger diameter main cap bolts too. Their old max. stroked 394 blocks come to mind here???

And fwiw, I learned years agowhile in ME school that a crack can't start in a part if the part is under compression!!!!!

I know what I am talking about isn't the cheapest way OR for that matter all that practical to make an engine STRONGER, but I figure IF I had to use a stock block and had to make as much power out of it as I could and then run it wide open for hours, I figure it would work fine!!

The whole thing would probably end up being sacrificial, but I bet it would hold togerther to finish the race!!

pdq67

PS., still dreaming right along, I figure that to really do the top plate right, I would go ALL OUT and furnace braze it in place!!! Then come back and blue-print the complete block..

We would be willing to machine anything a customer wanted and 80 dollars an hour I would think a good after market block would be in order and on the girdles on the mains are not set up or strokers.

If some body wanted to roll the dice and and spend the money it takes to do this procedure we are game as we have all the equipment to do the job.

Carl,

You didn't asnswer my question?

"Are you telling me that putting a full STEEL 5-main girdle on the bottom of an engine that's made to be able to be tension/tie-bolted to a top plate that is also ran across the decks and "V" flat to tie the "V" together wouldn't make a stock block substantially stronger so doesn't, (i.e., wouldn't), work??"

Please tell me where my thinking is off so I will learn something..

And I'm not being argumentative with you at all so please don't even think that way.

Where's Mike at too?? Even Gary, (GOSFAST)... BillK around??

pdq67

Carl,

You didn't asnswer my question?

"Are you telling me that putting a full STEEL 5-main girdle on the bottom of an engine that's made to be able to be tension/tie-bolted to a top plate that is also ran across the decks and "V" flat to tie the "V" together wouldn't make a stock block substantially stronger so doesn't, (i.e., wouldn't), work??"

Please tell me where my thinking is off so I will learn something..

And I'm not being argumentative with you at all so please don't even think that way.

Where's Mike at too?? Even Gary, (GOSFAST)... BillK around??

pdq67

I am sure it will be stonger to a certain point and do you have a pic of a block that has this done to it and as far as the girdles on the mains I know the 5.0 engines guys have used them and really don't know of any chevy guys using them as the don't work with the stroker rotators.

I really don't know what you are looking for an answer as its hard to visualise what your talking about and any one building a 750 horse engine without NOS cost a lot of money and I would think an aftermarket block would be in order.

Over the years I have seen guys use a 2 bolt main block where a 4 bolt block should have been used and guys use a 4 bolt block used where a splayed cap block should have been used and I have seen guys use splayed cap block where they should have good to an after market block an I seen guys no matter what you give them they will break it.

Thanks Carl.

I see what you mean about some guys can break a hammer and anvil.

Merry, Merry..

pdq67

One thing that comes to mind is oil pan clearance. The clearance is already my 400. Adding a girdle on top of the windage tray, main studs, and oil pan studs, would only add to the problem.

I think a girdle would strengthen the bottom end more. The only question though is would it be enough? The main web goes around the crank 360o. The girdle would only make about 180o of it stronger. Maybe a half fill and a girdle would do it.

I see what you mean and thanks..

Anybody else??

pdq67

Im no pro engine builder but I have put together many small block fords.

I had my block split on me. I had a picture of it but thanks to yahoo photo albums it is long gone.

I had a D.S.S. main girdle with ARP studs on the bottom of my prepped stock 5.0 block in my 91 mustang. It was a 331. It did have a vortech mondo blower on it. My motor split from the front main to the cam galley on the chassis dyno at 606rwhp and 6100rpm. This caused havoc. I will say one thing tho. When I pulled it apart,tho the block was split and the #1 and #5 (remember this is a dorf not a chevy) rod were toast along with the crankshaft and the girdle was literally bent down into the oil pump. I was still able to pull out 6 rods and 7 pistons and reuse them. They were eagle rods with SRP pistons. Oh and my heads were not harmed either.

My point is that girdles probably add to some kind of "damage recovery" but they dont prevent stupidity like running those numbers on a stock block, like I did.

From what I understand the limiting factor of the stock block is the cyl wall thickness and not so much the mains. I guess I'm assuming billet splayed main caps installed though.

CNC, I've heard you refer to strapping the rear main, what is that? and how common is it to have the front main 4 bolt splayed? The Eagle kit I bought was just the 3 middle main caps.

From what I understand the limiting factor of the stock block is the cyl wall thickness and not so much the mains. I guess I'm assuming billet splayed main caps installed though.

CNC, I've heard you refer to strapping the rear main, what is that? and how common is it to have the front main 4 bolt splayed? The Eagle kit I bought was just the 3 middle main caps.

Here is link to look at that will have some pics on straping a rear main cap.

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72036

Thanks :)

jpaltzer,

Remember that I said this earlier.

"Heck, the Olds guys have been milling their two-bolt main caps flat for years and just installing 1/2" thick steel flat reinforcement pieces on top of them for a long time to strengthen their old motors.. I think they also install bigger diameter main cap bolts too. Their old 394 max. stroked blocks come to mind here???"

And thanks for commenting b/c I hope we all learn something about how to make a stock block hold together when we get plumb stupid producing TOO much power..

This kind of stuff fascinates the h-ll outta me.. I think it is b/c of the old pic somewhere in onna my many, many OLD mag's that show's a broke 392" Hemi AA/FA with all 8 pistons hanging straight down below where the pan used to be.........

pdq67

Those kinda pics are really cool, I just don't want to be the one paying for it, lol. I'm still concerned about my stock block holding up but I guess I have to trust the guys at SAM with that and we still haven't found a good core. Might be getting an aftermaket block anyway, I'll make a detailed post when I start getting info. It should get built and dyno'd some time in February. Hoping to hit the 600 hp mark.

Carl,

What's you opinion on how much straps and bigger main-bolts helped??

Good for a couple to maybe 300hp more over stock??

I know the old 394 Olds's had hellaciously thick main bulkheads.... But only 2-bolt caps so that's why they went this way..

pdq67