View Full Version : Vortec Cylinder Heads: The Definitive Guide


Pages : 1 2 3 [4]

dhawkeye
02-23-2010, 09:39:15 PM
My first attempt ended up a little short. Its a 72 nova drag car wieght is 2850 with driver. Its old 400 block decked to 9.10 with flat top cast badger pistons with 4 valve reliefs 40 over with 062 vortec heads that have 202 stainless valves and titanium retainers unported with drilled and tapped old school vic jr intake port matched to the heads. 500 solid lift circle track cam 830 cfm holley with msd and hooker comp headers. ran 11.240 at 119 and a 155 60 foot. was hoping for 1090s but came up short. not to bad for first try. hope to run low 10s soon.

1980RS
02-24-2010, 12:12:43 AM
My first attempt ended up a little short. Its a 72 nova drag car wieght is 2850 with driver. Its old 400 block decked to 9.10 with flat top cast badger pistons with 4 valve reliefs 40 over with 062 vortec heads that have 202 stainless valves and titanium retainers unported with drilled and tapped old school vic jr intake port matched to the heads. 500 solid lift circle track cam 830 cfm holley with msd and hooker comp headers. ran 11.240 at 119 and a 155 60 foot. was hoping for 1090s but came up short. not to bad for first try. hope to run low 10s soon.

Darn good times, Those Gm engineers are not all that dumb are they?
What did you have behind the 400 for a trans and rear gears. 2850 is a light car.

PhatBastard
03-02-2010, 09:41:21 AM
Hello all,

I believe this would be my first post. I spent 4 nights reading every single post in this thread, HOLY CRAP that is a lot of info!

I have a question that hopefully I didnt miss in all my reading, or maybe I just didnt understand it if it has already been answered, but here goes.

I am looking at buying the Vortec heads new probably from here (http://www.jegs.com/i/GM%20Performance/809/12558060/10002/-1?CT=999). I am looking at the Comp Cams XE262H (.462''/.469'' 262°/270°) or XE268H (.477''/.480'' 268°/280°). I understand all the clearance issues for lift and how to fix them (i.e. ghetto grind, offset locks, machining the guides). I also understand that if I want to use a performance cam that I need new springs over stock. But i guess what I am not understanding with all the Beehive and LS spring talk is, even if I use the XE262 and may not need to machine for clearance, will the Comp Cams 981-16 recommended springs work or do I need something else. I think this spring issue is the only thing holding me back.

Thank you guys for all the help you have provided to the less experienced such as myself.

Brian

wayfast84
03-03-2010, 12:01:10 PM
Hey guys I cant find the comp cams drop in spring and retainer kit anywhere. I was wondering If any one knew what other drop in springs and retainers would work? I might consider using the Z28 springs how ever I would have to change my camshaft and I don't know If that's worth it yet..

sooner
03-03-2010, 09:14:26 PM
Hello all,

will the Comp Cams 981-16 recommended springs work or do I need something else.
Brian

I went outside and measured the base of the valve guide bosses of a vortec head in my garage and they measured .845. I looked up the 986-16 specs and it looks like they have a .697 I.D. so they wont work for you.

Something like these "Z28" valvesprings should do what you need to do and drop right in for you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Z28-Valve-Springs-Retainers-Locks-Small-Block-Chevy_W0QQitemZ120530263585QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item1c1029de21#ht_1618wt_922

you can get them cheaper at www.competitionproducts.com, but I just didnt have time to look them up for you.

By the way, welcome to the site!

PhatBastard
03-03-2010, 11:24:02 PM
I went outside and measured the base of the valve guide bosses of a vortec head in my garage and they measured .845. I looked up the 986-16 specs and it looks like they have a .697 I.D. so they wont work for you.

Something like these "Z28" valvesprings should do what you need to do and drop right in for you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Z28-Valve-Springs-Retainers-Locks-Small-Block-Chevy_W0QQitemZ120530263585QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item1c1029de21#ht_1618wt_922

you can get them cheaper at www.competitionproducts.com, but I just didnt have time to look them up for you.

By the way, welcome to the site!

Thank you for the reply!

I am still a bit confused, why does the ebay link you posted above specifically state these will not work on L31 Vortec heads without machining the guides? I am in no way meaning this in a "questioning your advice" manner, just want to make the right purchase the first time ;) maybe it is just bleed-in descriptions from another part listing.

Also, if I use those Z28 springs, would I need to get the whole kit or just the springs. The heads are brand new assembled so they will have the stock retainers and locks (which if I read correctly Mr. "Dirt" said should work fine), maybe I can keep the cost down a few extra bucks if I only have to get the springs and can reuse the brand new stock extras.

Thanks again,
Brian

dhawkeye
03-04-2010, 02:33:05 AM
Darn good times, Those Gm engineers are not all that dumb are they?
What did you have behind the 400 for a trans and rear gears. 2850 is a light car.

Its a almost stock turbo 350 with 3800 stall and 10 bolt posi with 4.56 gear. I foot brake it at almost 2000. It yanks the wheels 6 inches now. I am building at least 2 more vortec motors and will upgrade the 500 horse to.

RockinZ
03-04-2010, 07:06:32 AM
I went outside and measured the base of the valve guide bosses of a vortec head in my garage and they measured .845. I looked up the 986-16 specs and it looks like they have a .697 I.D. so they wont work for you.

Something like these "Z28" valvesprings should do what you need to do and drop right in for you.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Z28-Valve-Springs-Retainers-Locks-Small-Block-Chevy_W0QQitemZ120530263585QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item1c1029de21#ht_1618wt_922

you can get them cheaper at www.competitionproducts.com, but I just didnt have time to look them up for you.

By the way, welcome to the site!

The XE268 takes 981-16. Those have an inner diameter of .880 in.

sooner
03-04-2010, 09:32:24 AM
^^Lol that explains alot. I was looking at the 986-16's for some reason. Thanks Kyle



I am still a bit confused, why does the ebay link you posted above specifically state these will not work on L31 Vortec heads without machining the guides? I am in no way meaning this in a "questioning your advice" manner, just want to make the right purchase the first time maybe it is just bleed-in descriptions from another part listing.

Also, if I use those Z28 springs, would I need to get the whole kit or just the springs. The heads are brand new assembled so they will have the stock retainers and locks (which if I read correctly Mr. "Dirt" said should work fine), maybe I can keep the cost down a few extra bucks if I only have to get the springs and can reuse the brand new stock extras.

My apologies for getting my wires crossed on the part numbers and giving the wrong info. From the info that RockinZ posted it looks like the 981's will drop right in, although you may need to remove the dampener (which is no big deal Imo),

As far as the disclaimer saying that those z28 springs would not work, they list the I.D. of the spring at .880. you will probably need to remove the dampener to get them to fit, but it has been done with great success by some members here (Including Dirt) from what I have read.

Way back in post 16 of this sticky, Hardline42 provides a link for a single coil drop in z28 spring sold by scoggin-dickey. Its good to .490 lift which ought to be plenty for either of your cam choices.

Here is the link:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/details/scoggin-dickey-parts-center/sd1004

I run 26915 beehives on my vortecs so im far from an expert on what will drop right in and what wont. Hopefully someone else will chime in and let you know for sure if you will need to remove the dampener on the 981's or the Elgin's.

PhatBastard
03-04-2010, 10:00:36 AM
RockinZ and Sooner,

You guys are great! A big thank you to everyone here that helps out and takes their time to answer these seemingly simple questions!

Brian

1980RS
03-04-2010, 10:14:06 AM
No stock type spring with an inner dampener will work with the vortec heads.
I just got the cutters and cut mine down, now I can use any spring with decent seals. End of spring problem.

REARSPROCKET
03-05-2010, 08:03:36 AM
Dirt I have a question on Vortec heads, I bought a worked over set from S&D for my boat engine about 5 or 6 years ago and they have the sideways D exhaust ports, now I see pics of newer vortecs with square exhaust ports. What is the story here?

Dirt Reynolds
03-09-2010, 07:00:33 PM
Dirt I have a question on Vortec heads, I bought a worked over set from SD for my boat engine about 5 or 6 years ago and they have the sideways D exhaust ports, now I see pics of newer vortecs with square exhaust ports. What is the story here?

I don't know, to be frank. Mine looked the same as all other Vortecs, so not sure what the situation is with the set you got. Maybe call up S-D and see what they have to say about it...

novadude
03-11-2010, 10:39:40 AM
Dirt... What's the verdict on the current production Vortec "Hencho en Mexico" heads? I've seen some buzz on the net that the current 062 assemblies from GMPP don't flow as well as the old heads. Any truth to this?

Dirt Reynolds
03-11-2010, 08:17:17 PM
Dirt... What's the verdict on the current production Vortec "Hencho en Mexico" heads? I've seen some buzz on the net that the current 062 assemblies from GMPP don't flow as well as the old heads. Any truth to this?

I'm not up on the latest on that. My understanding is that all Vortec castings pretty much flow close to the same. Unless there was a change in the port design, my take is that they 'should be' as good as previous Vortec castings.

dhawkeye
03-17-2010, 03:04:30 AM
Can someone please post the proper retainer numbers for different ls springs used in stock ls heads. Will they all work with the 11/32 stem size? The yellow springs etc... its quite confusing and I think most are compatable?

787-16, 774-16, 783-16, 761-16. does anybody know this ???



http://www.compcams.com/catalog/COMP2010/pdf/COMP_Catalog_2010_355.pdf

Will be using these springs in stock vortecs

retorq
03-17-2010, 12:04:08 PM
You are referring to the stock LS6 yellow beehive springs??

Appstro
05-31-2010, 11:32:59 PM
Have any of you guys ever run the Summit Vortec Heads? The guy at Summit told me they were made by Dart....How much can I mill these heads for my stock 350 rotating assembly?

Dirt Reynolds
06-27-2010, 03:21:49 PM
Have any of you guys ever run the Summit Vortec Heads? The guy at Summit told me they were made by Dart....How much can I mill these heads for my stock 350 rotating assembly?
We had a discussion about Dart Vortecs back about 4 years ago or so. You can read about that here:

Dart Vortecs (http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50570)

The long and short of it -- unless Dart has revised that casting significantly since then -- is the Dart Vortec is not as good a flowing head as a stock L-31 Vortec. It has a smaller intake port, flows less air, and has a larger combustion chamber. In their defence, Dart did say these heads are not a 'performance' head per se, but a stock replacement for production Vortec engines.

I can recall back then, one of the mags wanted to do a dyno shoot-out deal with stock L-31 Vortecs, EQ Cylinder Heads Vortecs, RHS Vortecs, Dart's Vortecs, etc. Dart did not want to participate for the above reasons, according to the mag, Dart feeling they would not be competitive against the other castings.

Appstro
06-27-2010, 10:02:17 PM
Ah! Thanks :)

Dirt Reynolds
06-30-2010, 04:07:16 AM
No problem. :cool:

numskull
07-12-2010, 01:52:27 PM
Im new here, but i was wondering with, the air gap vortec intake on a fresh 355 with trw flat top and a 292H comp cam, stock stroke of course, 3.73 spool rearend and 3000 tci stall, will this be a nice little engine to play with street and strip. Ive never used vortecs......just old school double humps.

Dirt Reynolds
07-14-2010, 03:56:37 AM
If you like the Magnum FT hydraulics, I'd look at something like the 280H which should work very well with the 10-10.5:1 compression with the flat-top pistons, 355 ci and that 3.73 gear. I would not use the 292H, just my opinion.

numskull
07-14-2010, 12:16:29 PM
Thanks. If you don't mind, could you tell me why wouldn't you use the 292H cam? Street use isn't gonna be a concern more for strip use really...I hope its worthy of the strip. But I do want all the power I can get. I haven't purchased a the cam yet, good thing, but maybe this one of thoses cases where bigger isn't better?

Dirt Reynolds
07-14-2010, 04:19:31 PM
I'm looking at your overall combo, your compression ratio, rear gear, ci of the engine, and so on. For your application, my opinion is to go with the 280H.

numskull
07-14-2010, 05:38:40 PM
Oh ok. So I guess that's to much cam for it, with 1.6 rockers.

jasong
07-15-2010, 11:23:09 AM
Are the ex. port heights the same as standard SBC heads? My headers aren't fitting quite right, and I'm wondering if that is the prob.

retorq
07-15-2010, 05:09:23 PM
Mine fit fine ...

numskull
07-16-2010, 11:52:40 PM
My block is still at stock deck heigth, is there a reason that +.100 longer pushrods would be an advantage vs stock.

my set up;

355
trw flat tops
501 lift comp cam
1.6 roller rockers
air gap intake
ported vortec heads

spaman71
07-20-2010, 09:07:31 AM
Hi, I have vortec heads and some new hooker headers for my 71 Camaro. Which brand exhaust gasket would be best , round, square, d-port, oval, standard...steel core, copper...

so many choices...summit gave me 180 possibilities!

thanks for the help

Shrimp76
07-23-2010, 03:26:52 PM
I think I wanna get vortec heads eventually. Right now my set up is: 355 with flat top pistons, comp cam (not sure what one or that), holly 600cfm, edelbrock performer manifold, headman headers with a summit dual exhaust, oh and I think my gears are 3.73s. Will this setup be good with vortecs?

numskull
07-23-2010, 06:48:22 PM
Anyone know what angle the vortec head guides are??? 23?

mycamaros
08-24-2010, 07:56:34 PM
comp cam (not sure what one or that),

You need to Know what lift But with that set up you will be happy.

Shrimp76
09-04-2010, 12:55:00 PM
You need to Know what lift But with that set up you will be happy.

sorry.. I don't really understand the specs but I have this one.. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-12-210-2/ and I'm actually not sure what gears I have and my carb is actually a 670cfm street avenger.

staleg
09-11-2010, 04:29:38 AM
Is it a fairly reliable way that I can check my used vortec heads for crack myself? There ain't any machine shops in my area.
The heads are cleaned very well. I don't suspect them to be cracked. They have have been on a Suburban.

Any photos of typical cracks and areas where the cracks often appear?

retorq
09-11-2010, 11:50:41 PM
There are home mag kits to check your own stuff for cracks:

http://www.amazon.com/Magnaflux-Itw-SK-416-Dye-Penetrant/dp/B000LB6ACA?tag=unlinker-20

staleg
09-20-2010, 12:13:55 PM
Hi and thank you for your answers.

I'm going to switch from pressed- to screw in studs on my Vortec heads.

I've decided to go the self aligning rockers route, so it will be studs with no hex head on them. And no guide plates.
After pulled the original studs, I will tap the holes with 7/16"-14 threads.

Then my question: I see there are lots of different rocker stud lengths to choose from. Should I just pull one of the studs, measure the lenght and order screw in studs not shorter than this?
Or do I need longer than standard studs in case I decide to change to roller rockers later?

Do you have any part number suggestion for studs that will fit my plans?

sooner
09-20-2010, 01:12:57 PM
Well here is what I ran into:

http://www.jegs.com/i/Mr.+Gasket/720/1076/10002/-1

^These are the right length stud BUT the collar on them will not work with full roller rockers. Mine rubbed on the main body near the fulcrum.

I had to put mine in a lathe and turn the collar off of them, but other than that they worked great.

I think GMPP makes a non collared street stud, but I could not find one to link to.

Good luck!

staleg
09-22-2010, 03:28:47 AM
Thanks!

I have a spring/retainer question as well: Are any of you using this kit?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=310250198994&viewitem=&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT

It's said to handle up to .550" lift and fit right in without any head modifications...?

62_ChevyII
09-23-2010, 12:34:39 AM
I wonder about those too Staleg. Guys, I've read through these posts the past couple of nights and I think my head's going to explode so bare with me. :D

I want to ditch my 462624 heads and change the top end on my 350 to give it a little more "umph" to keep me at least somewhat entertained until I decide to do a dedicated engine build later.

I already have brand new GM Vortec Heads I had delivered the other day, and to accompany them I was also going to run the Voodoo 60101 Cam, Edelbrock Vortec RPM Air-Gap manifold, my current 600 cfm eddy carb, and sanderson 1 5/8 headers. I'm not sure if I want to run stock vortec rockers or just get the comp magnum roller tip self-aligning 1.5 rockers.

I must have read this thing through 2-3 times but I still am wondering weather or not I can run the smallish 60101 Cam with the stock valve springs. Since I'm not keeping this motor I'd rather not upgrade the springs but still want it to be reliable. The specs on the cam are...

•Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 256/262
•Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 213/219
•Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .454/.468
•LSA/ICL: 112/108

Will this cam work out ok with the stock vortec springs? Thanks for the help sorry if it's been asked before but I'd rather be totally sure before I order anything else and you guys seem like the ones to ask. Thanks in advance for the help.

sooner
09-24-2010, 09:04:13 AM
The stock vortec springs are really bad. I would expect them to be a complete disaster on a cam with the aggressive lobes that the voodoo cams use.

I would take a serious look at running the spring that lunati recommends with the inner dampener removed on your setup. Jmo..good luck

fwiw, your stock rockers would be fine. There is a member here running stock rockers with the 60103 cam.

62_ChevyII
09-24-2010, 10:20:31 PM
Thanks for the answer, the help is much appreciated. Now I'm thinking I may get drop-in springs like staleg mentioned a couple posts back and run the 60102 cam instead. :confused:

Would these be too much spring for a 60102 voodoo?

60102 Cam Specs:

•Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 262/268
•Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 219/227
•Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .468/.489
•LSA/ICL: 112/108
•Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
•RPM Range: 1400-5800

Spring Specs:

110 Lbs @ 1.800" -Valve Closed, Spring Installed Height
360 Lbs @ .580" lift (1.210")
Max lift- .580" w/ .250" tip length exh valves or .550" Lift w/ .289" tip length exh valves
Rate# 348

Average Coil Bind @ 1.130"

Look ok to you guys?

Edit: Went ahead and ordered the valve-springs listed above, and I think I'll now go with the 60102 cam. Glad I asked before running the 60101 on the stock springs. Hopefully this'll be a fun little mild motor to get me by until I build something else later.

staleg
09-28-2010, 03:18:00 AM
Just an update to my own questions:
GMPP rocker studs item number 12371058 is the correct screw in studs for Vortec heads when using self alligning rockers and no guide plates.

Sells at Summit racing for 22,95$

Since I will be using a cam with app .510" or more, I've decided to do the spring modification the proper way by machining the guide bosses and spring pockets to allow bigger diameter springs with dampers.
I've been adviced to take no chances with with no-brand beehive springs or springs without dampers in combination with such a cam.

When I purchased my pair of used Vortec tops, The previous owner enclosed the neccessary tools to modify them, and in addition to that, I do have a sturdy floor mounted drill to use for the job.

rtveit
10-30-2010, 03:46:17 PM
Great info in this thread!!
I have run a 355 with vortec heads for several years. Bought the modified heads from Scoggin with bolts, gaskets and air gap intake. I got the heads ported and valve seat cut for better flow. Installed Comp cams XE268H-10 and Comp Magnum roller tip (p/n 1418-16) rockers (1.6:1).
This was obvious too much for the valve spring, even if there was good clearance, or it was wrong installed height, because every valve damper spring was broken. I notice when two plugs got fouled of oil, after the loose damper spring had crushed the valve stem seals.
Now I have installed the Comp cams 981-16 spring, which is recommended with the 268 camshaft. I guess the springs from Scoggin did not handle the aggressive lift from my camshaft. The 981-16 also have a much shorter damper spring, and have a lot more coil clearance at full lift.
This is a great engine and now I'm installing it in my wife's -70 Chevelle, hopefully she's loving it as much as I am.

steve80
11-16-2010, 12:32:35 AM
Guys, I plan on swapping in some Vortecs and I was wondering if I could use some of my current parts. I currently have a GM crate engine (12355345): 300 HP 350ci ENGINE (http://www.sallee-chevrolet.com/ChevySmallBlockV8s/images/12355345.350ho300hp.jpg)

This engine uses heads with centerbolt valvecovers and self-aligning rockers - I plan on using these. Can I use the valve springs and retainers and order the same seals I have now, for the Vortec heads? Would the Z28 springs work better on the cam I'm currently using?

3911068 1970 Corvette LT1 Valve Spring
Technical Notes: Single spring with damper with 1.241" O.D. and 1.15" solid height. The pressure at installed height IS 80# @ 1.70" with 267# the average rate of pounds per inch. Use with retainer P/N 14003974 and seal kit P/N 10132715.


So, I'm finally getting around to swapping the Vortecs on and I'm going to use my existing cam and springs, but the vortec heads with the stock seals and retainers.

If I use the LT1 springs, I think I have to remove the damper to keep them from rubbing. What effect will this have on the springs?

I can't wait to get this together. I have all of the specials bolts and gaskets and I'm hoping the felpro 1094s help with the upgrade too. The old heads are off and I'm swapping the springs. I also replaced the balancer. Once I get a new higher flow water pump this thing should move.

olstyle
11-19-2010, 05:33:00 PM
Lots of great info in this thread!
Got a set of 062 heads on my circle track 355 sbc built by a race engine builder. Stock OD springs with good seals and .772 seal to retainer clerance, 3/8" screw in studs with guide plates. I put in a comp cams roller cam #12-423-8 XR276HR. Springs I need to use are the 986-16 1.440 OD roller cam springs. I'm gonna get the tool from comp cams to cut the seats to 1.440. I have read in here that people have done this with no problems. Here is a couple pics of my heads with 2 springs n valve removed. With my stock spring seats not the same height as the head casting. Do I need to cut down enough to get the 1.440 seat flat all the way across? My educated guess is that I would need to cut down .060-.090 just to get flat with the casting......is this normal and ok to do? It just seems like I have to cut off alot to get the 1.440 flat. Any tips or ideas???

Thanks
Guy

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj44/olstyle_photos/DSCF5642.jpg

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj44/olstyle_photos/DSCF5647.jpg

olstyle
11-19-2010, 11:03:49 PM
Why is there a huge difference in these 2 heads spring pockets with the same casting number?

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/wynder15/Storyhead.jpg

http://i717.photobucket.com/albums/ww173/wynder15/GuyHead.jpg

craig072897
01-08-2011, 03:06:47 PM
Here is a recent article on porting Vortecs I ran across. It is published in the April 2010 edition of Engine Professional Magazine by Joe Mondello.

http://www.aera.org/ep/downloads/ep10/EP04-2010_46-50.pdf edited.

Or cut and paste this:

aera.org/ep/downloads/ep10/EP04-2010_46-50.pdf


http://www.aera.org/ep/ep10.html

And an older article from around 2002:

http://www.superchevy.com/technical/engines_drivetrain/cams_heads_valvetrain/sucp_0209_chevy_gm_cylinder_heads/index.html

retorq
01-08-2011, 10:27:44 PM
The link to the PDF got bjorked:

http://www.aera.org/ep/downloads/ep10/EP04-2010_46-50.pdf

mikebelknap
01-25-2011, 07:38:38 PM
Can anybody tell me if you have to have a vortec block to run the upper end vortec set up in my 1996 k series or can i get away with a standard e.f.i. block? 350 255,000 miles...but all new upper end......

spaman71
03-08-2011, 09:30:01 PM
Well, Ive been chasing a vaccum leak and pulled my intake off. I have a "professional products" 52006 intake manifold, made in china. The casting is very poor with many ports not lining up correctly and the internal finish is absolute rubbish. see the pics below.

I have the following engine specs and would like advice on buying a new quality intake, price/hp to suit my engine?

350 four bolt main
Vortec L31 64cc heads
hypereutectic pistons
Cam .470/.480 lift, 224/230 duration
Currently running and prefer the Q-Jet ...also have a new Holley 750 3310 square bore which was giving me the sh!ts so I pulled it off.

Told it was 11.1:1 compression ratio but dont know. Each cylinder puts out 168psi +/- 2psi compression. Running 95 octane unleaded

Many Thanks, Scott

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae290/ehbobeh/CIMG3200.jpg
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae290/ehbobeh/CIMG3202.jpg
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae290/ehbobeh/CIMG3201.jpg
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae290/ehbobeh/CIMG3204.jpg

Dirt Reynolds
03-22-2011, 04:01:30 PM
I noticed the Spring 2011 Engine Masters Challenge magazine has that David Vizard article on porting Vortec heads. They reprinted the entire thing with pics and a dyno test, so if you are looking for that story on porting your Vortecs, nows the chance to pick up the issue again.

Just a heads-up.

:cool:

Dirt Reynolds
03-22-2011, 04:03:52 PM
ehbobeh -- I ran an Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, no problems at all with fit and finish.

spaman71
03-22-2011, 04:42:59 PM
Thanks for the reply Dirt. I have a q-jet and holley but found the holley to be a PIAS so will be getting the spread bore version of the Eddy. Just thought I'd post up the pics of the Proffesion products version to stop others from making the same mistake with their cheap POS. Cheers,

BondoSpecial
03-22-2011, 05:00:34 PM
http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae290/ehbobeh/CIMG3200.jpg

WOW. Every time people bash the chinamaster intakes people come back and stick up for them. Kind of hard to defend ^^ THAT

retorq
03-22-2011, 08:41:18 PM
I put Vortecs on my Tahoe with a cheapo intake. It looked like a bunch of retarded third graders modeled it out of play-doh. I will NEVER cheap out on that kind of stuff again. I have no idea if mine lines up that bad but if I run into a vaccum leak that will be the first thing to come off.

vinces1970rs
04-07-2011, 04:12:35 PM
He guys, Im looking into buying a used set of heads and the seller has listed them as center bolt heads. He says they came off of a 95 GMC 1500 and the casting number ends in 187. I haven't looked through the whole guide but do these sound like Vortec heads or what else should I be asking?

BondoSpecial
04-07-2011, 04:17:19 PM
Those are not vortec heads those are swirl ports. Pass. Center bolt does not mean vortec, there are a lot of non vortec center bolt heads pre 1996

69 ZaCamaro
04-12-2011, 02:11:06 PM
Hi all --

I found this thread linked over at Team Camaro. I've read through about 10 pages of it, so far, and I've learned a lot, fast. Really appreciate all the knowledge that's been devoted here.

So, I'm getting closer and closer to pulling the trigger on some Vortec heads, but trying to do as much homework as possible first, i.e., pricing everything, and make sure I'm not in store for any surprises.

Is anyone running this intake, or have any info on it? I'm considering it over Edlebrock intake in order to keep my costs down... Was looking for a GM air gap (as recommended in this thread somewhere, I think), b/c I read they're cast by Edlebrock , but can't find any used. In the long run, I'd rather spend a few extra dollars and avoid any nastiness like Scott encountered (in post 801 above). So if this KMJ is no bueno, please let me know.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-C...Q5fAccessories

Thanks!

BondoSpecial
04-12-2011, 02:41:29 PM
link doesn't work but KMJ sells a lot of really cheap import stuff

69 ZaCamaro
04-12-2011, 03:36:10 PM
That doesn't sound promising...

For what it's worth, here's the link again: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-CHEVY-Vortec-Air-Gap-Aluminum-Intake-Manifold-350-/390304041999?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item5adfef0c0f#ht_6008wt_1074

But, from what I've read here and other places, it sounds like this one is by far the most popular:http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-7116/
That about right?

retorq
04-13-2011, 02:45:17 PM
I got that same one, stay away from it. It looks like a bunch of retarded third graders modeled it with play-doh ...

BondoSpecial
04-13-2011, 02:47:52 PM
spend the extra 50 bucks and get the Edelbrock

69 ZaCamaro
04-13-2011, 03:13:54 PM
I saw that comment above -- about the third-graders -- but didn't realize it was the KMJ. Duly noted! Thanks gents.

I'm on a crazy tight budget, so going to start hunting for a deal on the Edlebrock, or maybe the Weiand (Action +Plus) 8121. Dirt pointed out (back on post #282) that it's competing with the Edlebrock Performer; if Dirt says it, I believe it!

69 ZaCamaro
04-18-2011, 11:10:08 PM
If this has been covered here, I'm sorry, but I haven't had time to finish reading the whole thread.

Looking at the Edelbrock Performer. It says it can take spreadbore or squarebore. But does one really work better than the other?

Specifically, I'm looking at the Holley 4777 or 6210. Any advantages of one over the other with Vortecs?

69 ZaCamaro
04-20-2011, 11:22:09 AM
Anyone?

Thanks.

Dirt Reynolds
04-20-2011, 07:31:54 PM
For feedback and help with your engine, you'd probably be better served to start a new thread in 'Engine Topic' and list your entire engine build. You'll find you'll get better responses that way.

69 ZaCamaro
04-20-2011, 09:20:06 PM
For feedback and help with your engine, you'd probably be better served to start a new thread in 'Engine Topic' and list your entire engine build. You'll find you'll get better responses that way.

OK, will do. I wasn't sure since it's all specific to a Vortex set up.

Thanks for all your work here, Dirt. Really impressive.

Dirt Reynolds
04-25-2011, 01:40:03 AM
Thanks for the words, but keep in mind there are a lot of guys on here with Vortec head experience who have also helped out. All I did was ask Mike for a sticky topic on it to help others out using these heads. Plenty of others have contributed over the years to this topic as you have no doubt noted.

:cool:

tim220225
05-17-2011, 05:27:49 PM
Hey guys I was adjusting the valves on my 350 and looked up the casting number of the heads. Turns out to be 305 Chevy heads. More compression but not much flow.

I have a line on a set of 1968 2.02 Vette heads and a set of Dart Iron Eagle Platinum heads with 200cc runners. Question is what to do?

My engine is a 350 NAPA crate motor 9:1 pistons, with a Crane Z-262-2 cam, MSD E-Curve distributor, Edlebrock Performer, Holley 650 vacuum secondary, Hookes and 2.5" Flowmaster true dual system. M-21 tranny and a 10 bolt with 3.73 gear.

I plan on keeping the cam for now and run 1.6 ratio roller tip or full roller rockers and either a RPM Air Gap or the Dart manifold part #42811000.

So the bottom line is what should I do? I am looking for suggestions and or opinions.

Tim

BondoSpecial
05-17-2011, 05:29:38 PM
I would not even consider 1960s cylinder heads. The Iron Eagles sound like a much better idea. As far as what to do about a low compression engine with a small cam, that's up to you. I would change the pistons and cam if you want a lot more performance. Can you make a 9:1 engine strong enough without touching the bottom end, sure, that's at your discretion how crazy you want to get.

tim220225
05-17-2011, 06:05:24 PM
I am looking for a stronger motor for street fun really. The Dart heads have 64cc chambers so per Dart I will see a net or effective compression ratio increase to near 10:1. They indicated as much as 85hp increase also. I feel the bottom end is fine for this. Anyone have these heads?



I would not even consider 1960s cylinder heads. The Iron Eagles sound like a much better idea. As far as what to do about a low compression engine with a small cam, that's up to you. I would change the pistons and cam if you want a lot more performance. Can you make a 9:1 engine strong enough without touching the bottom end, sure, that's at your discretion how crazy you want to get.

ATM
06-05-2011, 11:32:50 PM
I'm considering running a stud girdle on these 906 heads I have. Do they take a standard girdle or is it specific somehow? Or is it even possible?

PooK
06-10-2011, 07:50:29 PM
I have a Vortec question also, I bought a small block and pulled only one VC to check (when I went to pick it up) and found a 062.
When I got home I found a 906 bolted to the other side:eek:
The heads are fresh, new double springs new seals, etc...they "look" very well done.
Is there enough difference between the two that this wont work?

Thanks in advance
PooK

Dirt Reynolds
06-10-2011, 07:56:30 PM
I have a Vortec question also, I bought a small block and pulled only one VC to check (when I went to pick it up) and found a 062.
When I got home I found a 906 bolted to the other side:eek:
The heads are fresh, new double springs new seals, etc...they "look" very well done.
Is there enough difference between the two that this wont work?

Thanks in advance
PooK

Not enough difference to worry about, imo. They both make the same power.

Edit: In stock unported form.

Dirt Reynolds
06-10-2011, 07:59:28 PM
I'm considering running a stud girdle on these 906 heads I have. Do they take a standard girdle or is it specific somehow? Or is it even possible?

Good question. I can't see it being any different than any other standard 23* head since the valve spacing is the same. Your biggest issue might be trying to fit a stud girdle under a centerbolt valve cover.

Dirt Reynolds
06-10-2011, 08:06:54 PM
I'd just like to point out that this thread topic is only for Vortec heads and related info. Anyone with other types of cylinder heads seeking advice on their engine builds, I would ask if you could start your own thread in one of the tech forums here and not 'clutter' this thread with non-Vortec posts.

Thanks. ;)

ATM
06-12-2011, 12:24:01 AM
Good question. I can't see it being any different than any other standard 23* head since the valve spacing is the same. Your biggest issue might be trying to fit a stud girdle under a centerbolt valve cover.
That is an excellent point, I am thinking that it isn't going to work out. Which is fine by me, I'll just keep my polylocks without a girdle.

Shrimp76
06-22-2011, 10:31:40 PM
quick question.. whats the average price for to run Vortec heads?

retorq
06-25-2011, 12:25:12 AM
When I put the Vortecs on my Camaro engine I had about $300 into the heads (initial price and machine shop work), $75 for LS6 springs, used the old locks, $50ish for new retainers and a couple bucks (@$12 if I recall) for valve seals. I used the old cam, lifters, pushrods and had the OE stamped steel self aligning rockers. I had valve covers that came with the heads, valve cover gaskets were $12ish. My intake and intake gaskets were a package deal (steal is more like it), I paid $50 from the same guy I got the heads from. I used the old head gaskets (Fel-Pro .015 shims), old style head bolts and all my old brackets worked. $2 a piece for new spark plugs, used my old wires, headers and header gaskets. I did screw in shoulderless studs, the puller and studs weren't all that much, borrowed the tap from a friend and did that work myself before bringing them to the machine shop. Most won't/dont need that work ... I also got stainless hardware for the intake bolts and water neck bolts. All in all @$250ish not including the price of the heads.

When I put them on my Tahoe it was alot more ... :confused:

84Elky
07-12-2011, 02:23:41 PM
Great forum! Really need some help here from anyone who knows the details of the Bowtie Vortecs.

Want to replace my Gen1 sbc heads (pre ’87 versions on a 350) with the Bowtie Vortec small ports. While researching, I’ve come across several posts on various forums indicating differences between the exhaust ports on standard L31 Vortecs, Bowtie Vortecs and the Gen1 heads.

These posts talk about things such as”: “the Bowties have 0.001" raised exhaust ports”, “the Bowtie exhaust port is moved out 0.250” in relation to other GM and aftermarket heads”, “the Bowtie exhaust flange angle is different and your headers will not work, but if you have the standard Vortec heads your headers will work”, “your headers will bolt up to the Vortecs but you may run into problems depending upon how close your primaries tuck in—the headers mount about ¼” higher on the Vortecs”. Then there are others that say none of the above is true and there are absolutely no differences. Very confusing to say the least!

Because of these differences of opinion, and at the risk of getting more, some specific questions:

Are there any differences whatsoever in the Bowtie exhaust ports location, size, angle, bolt pattern, etc. when compared to Gen1 heads? If any differences, would appreciate details as to how they will affect header attachment/location.
Will 1 5/8” headers (Dynomax ceramic coated-no emissions) for Gen1 heads work with the Bowties? If so, any plug/wire clearance issues due to different plug location, header not covering port, etc.? Have none of these issues now with the Gen1 heads. Again, would appreciate specifics.
Any pics would be great. Thanks!

jotto
07-13-2011, 03:11:36 AM
Hi all, first post!
Tried a quick search but as Im posting from my cell phone, trying to read this whole thread is a bit of a nightmare so sorry if this has been asked and covered before.
Happy to read about it if someone can point me to a link.

I have a set of 906 heads that I got cheap and am hoping to install in my Corvette as part of a budget build. This will be my first engine build.
I have pulled the studs and will be installing screw ins ( one of the press ins was damaged )

I believe lift is a major issue with these heads. Im looking to run a max cam lift of 0.480.

My question is this.
The max lift of the cam is .480. Is this taking in to account the stock rocker ratio? OR does this figure need to be multiplied by the std 1.5 to get me the actual valve movement? ( so is the cam lobe lift in reality 0.320 which would then be multiplied by 1.5 to give the stated 0.480? )
Reason I ask is with valve seals fully seated, I have about .510 - .525 clearance between spring retainer and the top of the vlave stem seal.

If the .480 is the max overall valve movement/lift it would appear that Im good to go with the heads as they are without need for machining.

Manriquez
08-14-2011, 12:09:10 AM
Hi everyone

I'm working on a second 350 for my '73 camaro just because the engine I assembled is getting a little bit short of HP

went thru some of the 56 pages of the Thread and you have a nice job done here.

can anyone tell me if summit vortec heads 151124 worth the money.
they are about in the same price of the real GM vortec head but comes ready to go for better lift without any work (I understad that the GM are good only for 0.475" lift as they came from factory)

by the way I'm planning to install a solid comp cam XS256S

thanks to everyone

Regards
Pedro

Shrimp76
08-16-2011, 02:19:15 AM
Quick question I'm curious about.. If i buy the GM Vortec's off Summit can I bolt them right up or do they need to be machined and that? thanks

Manriquez
08-21-2011, 12:59:05 AM
well if none has ever tried the summit vortec heads 151124

I think will take my shoot :crazy: and will let you know ;)

thanks to everyone

Regards
Pedro

rodknockracing
09-26-2011, 07:55:29 PM
I decided my first post would be in this sticky because this is the reason I joined this is the best vortec info out there and I am currently in a vortec build and I have some questions for the guys here with more experience with the heads and what works. The short version of what I am building is a. 040 over 350 steel crank 5.7 fired I beam rods and two valve relief forged pistons. The heads have some bowl work and a fresh valve job with good stainless valves. They have been moddified for studs and guides and have been machined for 1.500 springs. Which I am not using for this build. The block I am going to have set up with a zero deck aa from what I have read here the better the quench the less detonation I will have. My question is with my cam selection and if it is any good. The specs are 262/274 @ .050 297/309 adv. .510/.536 on 112+4 L/C, .022 lash intake and exhaust does this sound reasonable for a dragrace only setup? I was thinkin of this to help the exhaust out. Thank you for any and all suggestions

rodknockracing
09-26-2011, 07:57:52 PM
Sorry for the run-on. I just went for it and made a bunch of punctuation errors. I just wanted to get it all out there sorry again for bad grammar

Jasper1990
09-30-2011, 02:16:59 PM
I have a bit of port work expierence with vortec heads. Have plenty of machining experience with them. I am currently building a 383 sbc. I am using a set of vortec heads. I am taking aq set of Dart 215 Iron Eagle heads off because I think the ports are too large for gasoline and the only flow 275 cfm. I have seen vortec heads that have approached this number on the flow bench with a lot smaller port. I will throw out there what I have learned and see who salutes it. I dont know everything in reguards to port work on these heads. Just what my flowbench time with them has showed me.

Jasper1990
09-30-2011, 02:41:00 PM
I have machined vortec heads with 2.02 int valves and 1.600 exhaust valves. The stock 1.94 valves with a bowl blend out flowed the 2.02 ports with all the trick valve jobs and port work I tried by better than 15 cfm. I A 2.00 valve is the largest valve that I have had any success with on stock vortec heads. I have seen 272 cfm at .540 lift on the intake. The ports do go backward after you hit a certain point of valve lift. The exhaust ports are a bit of a dog but there are reasons and measures that account for it. Not using a pipe while testing doesnt tell the truth about whats happening. Also it is easy to over scavenge the intake port with too much exhaust port. Cam manufacturers can make an exhaust lobe that will help.

Jasper1990
09-30-2011, 02:53:59 PM
The stock rocker arms on a vortec are rail type. I dont like the idea of using a valve with .002 guide clearance for aligning the rocker arm and pushrod. Valves and guides have enough work cut out for them as it is without a rocker arm moving from side to side on the tip of the valve and moving the tip of the valve in the valve guide. Roller tip rocker arms are the least we can do to help the situation. Screw in studs and guide plates are better. Its much cheaper and much easier to pull your valve covers and inspect wear on your pushrods and replace them or flip them than it is to pull your heads off and take them to the machine shop because the guides are seized or your rocker studs are cut by the rocker arm. Oh yes DONT use rail type rocker arms with guide plates it chews valve train parts up.

Jasper1990
09-30-2011, 03:33:35 PM
I have machined heads with a Serdi seat and guide machine for 18 years. They are great machines if you know how to keep them clean and properly adjusted. Your Serdi equiped machine shop could be causing you nightmares and they may not even know they are. Anyone ever had a valve guide seize up and take it back to the shop and them tell you it had plenty of clearance and it shouldnt have seized up you over heated the engine? If they are using the Serdi to machine seats that is more than likely the culprit. It is more about guide to seat concentricity than it is clearance. If they dont have the machine adjusted and it cuts your seat so the valve has to move to one side of the guide to seal you do not have any clearance on one side of your guide and it will seize. Go one further.. the head of your valve can flex to seal against a seat. Flex it too many times at 1200 degrees and not set it back down straight on the seat to remove the heat and you will have a two piece valve or a cupped valve head in a matter of time. The seats main job is to remove heat from the valve. Second job is to shaped the air in an orderly fashion to promote good air flow. Guides are the heart of a great valve job. Do yourself a favor the next time you have your heads rebuilt. Replace your guides! Use bronze K-Liners they are nice when installed properly. Further more have your shop do the valve job with very little guide clearance. I try to shoot for .0002-.0003 stem clearance while doing my valve jobs. The sunnen guid hone I use will leave a bit of frac in the guide that will make the valve very sticky at this amount of clearance. Nice thing about a Serdi is that they use LIVE tungsten carbide pilots to machine with. They will BROACH or smooth out the guide while they are cutting your seats. The SUNNEN VGS uses tool steel dead pilots that can flex while correcting seat to guide concentricity so dont think I am a fan of SUNNEN. Tungsten carbide does not flex. When you machine your seats and seal them at .0002-.0003 clearance and seal them you can run very minimum guide to stem clearance. I have ran as little as .0006 on drag racing applications. I have also ran as little as .0012 on dirt track applications all with great success. Cooper Berrilium seats demand that you run minimum clearance. This all reverts back to using bronze K-Liners. Dont ask your shop to try this with cast iron guides they will laugh at you. Cast Iron will seize their carbide pilots in the guide while they are machining and it will tear up your new guides. You can do the same with cast guides justy have to run a bit more clearance while you are machining your seats. The point I am trying to drive home is to make sure your valve job seals up and at very minimum amount of guide clearance, then hone to size. This insures a very tight concentric valve job that will last. Also while you are flow testing your heads you insure that loose valves are not moving around in an orbital motion while you are flow testing. Opening a valve with too much guide clearance and testing can cause test errors. The further you open the valve the greater the error distance can be. If you have done back to back flow test around a valve back cut angle or seat angle change you know that things are very sensative in this area. Change a back cut by 30 minutes and you can see drastic changes. Change a bottom or top cut angle on your seat by the same amount and it can make some major differences. So dont throw you time and efforts away by running too much stem clearance its no good for anyone involved.

Jasper1990
09-30-2011, 03:44:57 PM
I am thinking of making stud girdles with the center valve cover bolt holes in them. Anyone want a set?
I will make a set first and then post the pictures.

DEPORTU73
10-07-2011, 03:11:02 AM
Great post. I need to replace my stock heads w/Vortec. Sounds like my 274H grind cam w/.460 lift will combo well with them...

Jasper1990
10-07-2011, 12:32:53 PM
Great post. I need to replace my stock heads w/Vortec. Sounds like my 274H grind cam w/.460 lift will combo well with them...
The inside diameter spring locator thats is the lower fatter part of the valve guide right above where the spring rest is too large for the flat wire spring dampner on Z-28 type valve springs. Need to have them machined down smaller or the spring dampner will coil bind because of this. Also I reccomend machining about.100" from the top of the valve guide so you will have seal to retainer clearance. Other than that I can see no real problems.

red78z
10-07-2011, 01:29:06 PM
where do i look for a number to find out what heads i have?

Jasper1990
10-08-2011, 12:14:11 AM
where do i look for a number to find out what heads i have?
On the top side of the head between rocker studs there is a 7 digit casting number. Look at the last three numbers. This is the numbers that people will use to communicate back and forth about what you have. I know one vortec casting is 903 and if you read back further in this thread I am sure you will find others too.

retorq
10-08-2011, 07:30:19 PM
Without pulling the valve covers look at the end of the head if you ca, there will be a sawtooth pattern.

http://www.hotrodders.com/gallery/data/500/062_VORTEC_END_ID_001.jpg

062 is the other casting number.

ATM
10-08-2011, 08:14:38 PM
I am thinking of making stud girdles with the center valve cover bolt holes in them. Anyone want a set?
I will make a set first and then post the pictures.
Sure. Post up a pic

mildthing
11-18-2011, 08:13:30 AM
I got my first pair of Vortecs flowed, ( no pipe since I'll be using iron manifolds ) here's my results:
stock: 0.100" = 63 / 46. 0.200" = 121 / 98. 0.300" = 177 / 132. 0.400" = 217 / 140. 0.475" = 238. 0.500" = / 143
Same bench and operator, after:
0.100" = 65 / 57. 0.200" = 133 / 114. 0.300" = 188 / 149. 0.400" = 223 / 167. 0.475" = 238. 0.500" = / 177. 0.600" = / 181
On the intake side, all I did was better valves: CP swirl-polished stainless 1-piece, undercut with a 30-degree back cut.
Same valves for the exhaust, but 1.6", and 5 angle seat cut, 15 / 30 / 45 / 60 / 75, then lightly blend, plus taper the guide boss, then fully polish.
Never have I seen such great improvement from such minimal porting.
Mine are first going on a dished-piston 350 with a 214/220-112, 0.451/0.462 hydraulic roller cam, Performer intake, stock '91 700R-4 and torque converter from an LO3 'maro, in my '84 Trans Am, with 3.23:1 gov-lock rear. I'm looking for the right deal on 1.6:1 rockers.

99 to Life
01-06-2012, 10:27:32 AM
I have read this thread once and I'm re reading it again. I think it is great but definitely jumps around alot. But I look no further than this thread for vortec info.

So I'm going to be putting a set of vortecs on my 355 pretty soon. I was wondering what you guys thought of these "Self aligning Roller Rockers"

These are 1.6 stainless steel from skip white (lifetime warranty)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-CHEVY-STAINLESS-SELF-ALIGNING-ROLLER-ROCKERS-1-6-7-16-RR6104-/350509130734?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item519bf8e3ee

These are aluminum and have a warranty

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VORTEC-SBC-CHEVY-ALUMINUM-ROLLER-ROCKERS-1-50-3-8-350-/390300763148?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item5adfbd040c

Any recommendations on either brand or supplier?? I like what I have read with skip whites listings. They have lots of info on their product.

also would you guys feel the need to run 1.5's on the intake and 1.6 on the exhaust? Where do you draw the line with the cam selection if you are trying to use a split set of rockers and or when using 1.6's in general?
I don't forsee myself running over .500 of lift, I'm thinking in the .480 range.

I understand you have to open up the push rod holes to .5 inch

3leeboys
01-06-2012, 03:28:57 PM
I appriciate the increadable knowledge offerd in this thread. I was told I have Vortec heads on my 350 engine my question is: is there any reason to have 4center bolts on each of my valve covers other than Vortec heads?

sooner
01-06-2012, 05:04:08 PM
I appriciate the increadable knowledge offerd in this thread. I was told I have Vortec heads on my 350 engine my question is: is there any reason to have 4center bolts on each of my valve covers other than Vortec heads?

Yeah they could just be the dreaded swirl port heads. Sure fire way to tell is to count the intake bolts. A vortec intake will have 8 bolts in it, while the swirl port intake will have 10.

99 to Life
01-12-2012, 09:14:05 AM
Well I got no response to my roller rocker question.

So here is another.

Do you think the "direct" drop in springs from scoggin Dickey
have too much open and closed pressure for this Comp Cam?
http://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-dickey-parts-center/sd1005
130#@1.800 and 350#@1.200

http://www.compcams.com/Company/CC/cam-specs/Details.aspx?csid=86&sb=2

Comp recommends Spring 981-16 which is 105# @1.700 and 273#@1.250

rx2man
01-17-2012, 02:06:07 AM
I have read this thread once and I'm re reading it again. I think it is great but definitely jumps around alot. But I look no further than this thread for vortec info.

So I'm going to be putting a set of vortecs on my 355 pretty soon. I was wondering what you guys thought of these "Self aligning Roller Rockers"

These are 1.6 stainless steel from skip white (lifetime warranty)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-CHEVY-STAINLESS-SELF-ALIGNING-ROLLER-ROCKERS-1-6-7-16-RR6104-/350509130734?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item519bf8e3ee

These are aluminum and have a warranty

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VORTEC-SBC-CHEVY-ALUMINUM-ROLLER-ROCKERS-1-50-3-8-350-/390300763148?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item5adfbd040c

Any recommendations on either brand or supplier?? I like what I have read with skip whites listings. They have lots of info on their product.

also would you guys feel the need to run 1.5's on the intake and 1.6 on the exhaust? Where do you draw the line with the cam selection if you are trying to use a split set of rockers and or when using 1.6's in general?
I don't forsee myself running over .500 of lift, I'm thinking in the .480 range.

I understand you have to open up the push rod holes to .5 inch


I think its 1.6 intake 1.5 exhaust. Read something somewhere that you do 1.5 on the exhaust to help with scaveging or something to that effect that you DONT want the exhaust open as long to keep the flow up and from sucking the intake charge out. Maybe someone that knows more can clear it up but 1.6 in 1.5 ex

rx2man
01-17-2012, 02:37:37 AM
I have read this thread once and I'm re reading it again. I think it is great but definitely jumps around alot. But I look no further than this thread for vortec info.

So I'm going to be putting a set of vortecs on my 355 pretty soon. I was wondering what you guys thought of these "Self aligning Roller Rockers"

These are 1.6 stainless steel from skip white (lifetime warranty)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/SBC-CHEVY-STAINLESS-SELF-ALIGNING-ROLLER-ROCKERS-1-6-7-16-RR6104-/350509130734?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item519bf8e3ee

These are aluminum and have a warranty

http://www.ebay.com/itm/VORTEC-SBC-CHEVY-ALUMINUM-ROLLER-ROCKERS-1-50-3-8-350-/390300763148?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&vxp=mtr&hash=item5adfbd040c

Any recommendations on either brand or supplier?? I like what I have read with skip whites listings. They have lots of info on their product.

also would you guys feel the need to run 1.5's on the intake and 1.6 on the exhaust? Where do you draw the line with the cam selection if you are trying to use a split set of rockers and or when using 1.6's in general?
I don't forsee myself running over .500 of lift, I'm thinking in the .480 range.

I understand you have to open up the push rod holes to .5 inch


I wanted to run steel roller rockers but they have been a bit more than Harland Sharp or some of the other alum rockers. The Skip Whites you found from what I read on other forums seem pretty good. From what I read in Dave Vizards SBC build book steel lasts longer on the street than alum. DV says alum are good to 75k. I doubt any of us will have a motor together with that many miles on it til we mess with it but if steel lasts longer than I will go that way for the same amount of money.

toddster468
01-21-2012, 06:01:17 PM
I'm wondering if there are problems with putting 96 vortec heads on a 95 block? Water passages or stem holes? what should I use for a head gasket? What do I torque the heads too?
Can I put the plastic timing cover on the older block along with the timing disk on the front of the crank?
Any and all help would be great.

retorq
01-22-2012, 11:11:43 PM
Yeah you need to do something coolant passage on the heads, you could probably drill it and use the old style water pump with no extra external hoses. I hooked the rear passengers side of the intake to the back of the pump, so far that's working for me ... my next Vortec setup will have the head drilled. I like the 1003 series of gaskets:

http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/90678_small_block_400_cooling_tricks/index.html

Those .015 shims have the same design

If I remember right two of the cover bolts were different, not sure about the crank, I think the cranks were the same, the balancer was different due to that crank sensor. I got rid of my 98 balancer and crank as they were no good.

Big-Dave
02-01-2012, 08:45:45 PM
Quote from Hardline 42

http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2060...lve-Spring.htm
These are good to 0.49" lift and require no modifications. Add a set of valve locks for $7.50 and these LT4 retainers:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/969/...ng-Cap-Kit.htm
and you're at less than $50 for a new high performance valve train. Incidentally, these are the same components that Scoggin Dickey uses on their Upgraded Spring Vortec heads that they charge $339 each for.

What are the advantages of the LT4 retainers?

Greggymacz28
02-13-2012, 06:58:18 PM
So i have a 355 engine that im running flat top pistons in and have around a 10.3:1 Compression. I just got a new cam and am trying to modify my springs and clearance to support it. The cam is this one...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-08-433-8/

And i have found this place...

http://www.alexsparts.com/valve-spring-kit-sb-chevy-vortec-hi-perf-hyd-roller/

Which says that these springs are drop in for vortec and can handle up to .550 lift. Anyone know if this will work for that cam? Also i am willing to buy the comp cams tool to cut the guide down if needed. I'm basically just trying to fit this cam in there the cheapest way possible to where it will work safely.

Thanks for any information anyone can give me! This is a question i've been asking on thirdgen, but i wanted to check with this thread i found here with guys who really know their stuff!

-Greg

retorq
02-14-2012, 08:57:21 AM
So i have a 355 engine that im running flat top pistons in and have around a 10.3:1 Compression. I just got a new cam and am trying to modify my springs and clearance to support it. The cam is this one...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-08-433-8/

And i have found this place...

http://www.alexsparts.com/valve-spring-kit-sb-chevy-vortec-hi-perf-hyd-roller/

Which says that these springs are drop in for vortec and can handle up to .550 lift. Anyone know if this will work for that cam? Also i am willing to buy the comp cams tool to cut the guide down if needed. I'm basically just trying to fit this cam in there the cheapest way possible to where it will work safely.

Thanks for any information anyone can give me! This is a question i've been asking on thirdgen, but i wanted to check with this thread i found here with guys who really know their stuff!

-Greg

From his page: "The bottom of the retainer is pretty much "flush" with the bottom edge of the locks. This design offers maximum clearance without compromising strength or requiring the guides to be shortened."

That pretty much says it right there, he's using stock retainers that have been ground WAY down ... you can do that yourself and save some coin ...

Those springs should be OK with that cam, you should double check the seals and either run a thinner umbrella seal or ensure your stock seals are drive all the way on. It's common for them not to be ...

Greggymacz28
02-14-2012, 07:18:20 PM
From his page: "The bottom of the retainer is pretty much "flush" with the bottom edge of the locks. This design offers maximum clearance without compromising strength or requiring the guides to be shortened."

That pretty much says it right there, he's using stock retainers that have been ground WAY down ... you can do that yourself and save some coin ...

Those springs should be OK with that cam, you should double check the seals and either run a thinner umbrella seal or ensure your stock seals are drive all the way on. It's common for them not to be ...

Alright thanks alot! I think im going to buy some viton seals to go with it to put on that they recommend to go with it. But also the seat pressure on those springs is way higher than what im currently running, so i dont think i'd be able to do that with my springs? Anyway thanks for your response i just wanted to make sure that those springs would work!

Cortez
04-24-2012, 08:35:43 PM
The only difference between the #062 and #906 Vortec head is in the exhaust seat of the HD/1-ton truck #906 version, as described above. The #062 has a 3-angle grind on a standard induction-hardened seat, as does the non-HD #906 head. The 062 does flow slightly better on the exhaust side at low lifts but the advantage over a 906 is very slight. They both utilize back-cut exhaust valves. They both have 3-angle grind seats on the intakes with back-cut intake valves. Both heads make the same power in stock form.


Hi. Newb here and I'm green to engine building and was scoping a set of vortec heads my 350 C10. I was wondering how I can tell the difference between the 906 heads with the HD seat vs the 3-angle seat?

BondoSpecial
04-24-2012, 09:27:39 PM
The HD heads will have a big, obvious exhaust seat insert that is a different steel than the head. If you take one exh valve out you can see it, the HD seat is an insert.

Cortez
04-25-2012, 12:21:33 AM
The HD heads will have a big, obvious exhaust seat insert that is a different steel than the head. If you take one exh valve out you can see it, the HD seat is an insert.

Thanks bondo. I was able to find a pic of HD heads: http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/posts/tech-general-engine/482655-vortec-5700-l31-installed/3812422-post56.html

Someones selling 906 heads, a JEGS manifold, edelbrock 2102 cam/lifter set, chain and hardened pushrods for 350. Don't know if this is a deal or not. Maybe I should just make an offer on the heads and manifold separately.

BondoSpecial
04-25-2012, 12:24:54 AM
depends on whether these are junky core heads or not...the vortec factory heads are often cracked, I would not buy used ones that didn't come crack checked and already rebuilt. The summit vortecs, fully assembled, are on sale for $278 each, I just bought a pair today

Cortez
04-25-2012, 12:46:03 AM
Thanks for the heads up. Lame jokes my cue to get some rest before my finals tomorrow

SoCa06z
05-16-2012, 02:03:27 PM
What a great amount of data you guys have collected.

I recently purchased a 64 Chevy II with what I was told was Vortec heads. Turns out they are the swirl port heads, and not the true vortecs.

I am planning to order the Scoggin Dickey modified top end kit with RPM intake and supporting hardware. DO you guys know if I will be able to reuse my existing pushrods? Sorry if this is a newb question, I am pretty new to this.

My Combo Plan is...

1964 Chevy II 2 door
1965 327 (assuming stock compression)
Modified Vortecs (.525 lift max)
E-brock Performer RPM Intake
Comp Cams 280h Cam
Long Tubes (any suggestions?)
Bowtie Stage 2 700r4 w/2200 stall and lock up converter

http://inlinethumb31.webshots.com/47518/2367372320057924674S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2367372320057924674OrWIGs)

http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/50237/2778193780057924674S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2778193780057924674hpozXW)

ChevelleFan
05-16-2012, 03:53:27 PM
I am planning to order the Scoggin Dickey modified top end kit with RPM intake and supporting hardware. DO you guys know if I will be able to reuse my existing pushrods? Sorry if this is a newb question, I am pretty new to this.

My Combo Plan is...

1964 Chevy II 2 door
1965 327 (assuming stock compression)
Modified Vortecs (.525 lift max)
E-brock Performer RPM Intake
Comp Cams 280h Cam
Long Tubes (any suggestions?)
Bowtie Stage 2 700r4 w/2200 stall and lock up converter


If your engine already has a flat-tappet (non-roller) cam, you should be good with your current pushrods, assuming they are straight. You can roll them on a piece of glass or lightly chuck them in a drill to spin and check for straightness.

-Dave

SoCa06z
05-16-2012, 04:23:56 PM
If your engine already has a flat-tappet (non-roller) cam, you should be good with your current pushrods, assuming they are straight. You can roll them on a piece of glass or lightly chuck them in a drill to spin and check for straightness.

-Dave

Excellent, thank you for the quick response. Anything else I might need when doing the Vortec head swap?

SoCa06z
06-01-2012, 01:33:08 PM
Thanks to Dirt for all of the info....it's going to be a fun weekend.

http://inlinethumb20.webshots.com/48147/2530929820057924674S600x600Q85.jpg (http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2530929820057924674oCTHEn)

zachisageek
06-07-2012, 06:23:17 PM
The second method, and the one I’m going to discuss, is machining the head for screw-in studs WITHOUT GUIDEPLATES. To do this you will need a set of 3/8” shoulder-less screw-in rocker studs...

...Rocker studs can be found here: http://midwestmotorsportsinc.com/order_part.php?item=RM348&line=PNR

Link is dead. Does anyone have a part number for an ARP stud that will work with roller rockers and no guide plates?

I should also mention, I was hoping to stay with stock sized studs so I can reuse my rockers.

retorq
06-07-2012, 09:45:39 PM
I'm pretty sure ARP doesn't make shoulderless studs. I used no names on my build.

lucifug
07-15-2012, 02:57:36 AM
I have read all 59 pages and could not find some cam choise for not modified heads.

Lunati 06103 204 int./214 exh 0.420 int./0.442 exh 112
Would that be an ok cam for non modified heads ?

Thank for all the info on vortec heads.

vernonwright
08-02-2012, 05:52:07 PM
I have 91model heads on my four bolt main are thosea vortec head it has those sucky valve pans bolts in the center

retorq
08-03-2012, 05:18:23 PM
No Vortecs didn't come out till 96 ...

Greggymacz28
08-09-2012, 01:03:37 AM
Just an update on todays vortec heads and horsepower modifications. I have stock vortec heads, that i bought alex's springs for that gave me a safe lift to .550" and then have screw in studs, and other than that they are stock.

My car runs 11.90's in the 1/4 mile, and is a very consistent strong running car, and i hope there is still more to be had. I have a chevy 350 bored .030 over with a c/r of 10.5:1 with flat top pistons and vortec heads that i put in a comp cams camshaft that has 236/242 duration and .520/.540 lift. Here is a video of my car running 11.91 at 112 mph. I am the blue thirdgen camaro, i am sorry it is a thirdgen, but it is a vortec headed engine. Car weighs 3300 with me in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHfGI8W3ljY

Hope to show that vortec heads can be made to have some horsepower!

retorq
08-09-2012, 04:02:59 PM
Nice. :D

rms25thta
08-29-2012, 11:39:12 AM
Let me first start by saying I am a new member as of this morning but have been on the board reading every night for about a week. What a great resource for information on Vortec cylinder heads. You have some guys on here that really know their stuff. I have fallen asleep at the computer the last three nights trying to read all the information in this 59 page thread. Keep in mind after getting up at 4:30am, working for 11 hours, soccer practice and then cleaning up after dinner….I don’t get to far before my eyes shut. This message is really pointed toward Dave "Dirt" Reynolds for some clarification on what I have learned so far and what I am still cloudy on.

I am in the process of a restoring a 1980 Glastron Carlson CVZ18 boat. The old Chevy 305 is out and I am building a stout small block for the power plant. Keep in mind, this is a boat application, I want to make torque and lots of it. The boat is 18’ long and weighs 1675 pounds without fuel, gear or passengers.
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/motoxconnection/CVZ18/468DA833-C82A-4748-BED9-BE640EA510C5-3814-00000757B28094B5.jpg
10243880 Block (2 bolt) from a 98 Chevy Truck (Vortec 350)
- Baked and Blasted clean, fully deburred
- Boring it .030 over (??should I go .060??), line honed, decked, squared, new cam bearings, brass freeze plugs
Stock Crank , Stock Powdered Metal Rods w/ ARP rod bolts
Rotating assembly will be fully balanced once I decide on the pistons (could use some help there) don’t want to have to use premium gas, want to run well on 87 octane.
Vortec 062 Castings:
- baked and blasted clean
- surfaced only enough to be trued up,
- 3/8 ARP studs and Comp Cams guide plates
- Need current part numbers for the Z28 springs, LT4 retainters from Scoggin Dickey
- Stainless Steel Valves (no undercut valves correct?)
Intake Manifold: Edelbrock Performaer RPM Air Gap Vortec
Carb: Not sure, is going to depend on the cam.
What I have learned from this thread and questions needing an answer: (Dave, please address)
1: Screw in studs/Guideplates – DONE
2: Valve Guides – Fine if correct spring is used. No ghetto grinding here. Need current part number from Scoggin Dickey on the Z28 drop in with the LT4 retainers mentioned over and over. What seals if guides are left untouched??
3: The intake ports are great, don’t touch them and screw them up. What about the valve guide/boss in the port? Can you shape the front side of that so air flows around it better or is that shape intentional to accomplish a task in the delivery process??

4: The exhaust side is the weaker o from a flow perspective. Leave these alone or port them?? Are you better off changing the exhaust to 1.60 and leave the intake at 1.94 or just keep the 1.50 exhaust?
5: Bowls: Should I unshroud the outside on both intake and exhaust or just leave them alone??
6: The big square boss for the spark plug, can I reshape that?? If so, please show picture of what it should look like.
7: With the boat weighing 1670 pounds (no fuel, gear or people) What cam would you suggest ??


I very much look forward to hearing back from you!!

Rich

Dirt Reynolds
08-31-2012, 04:38:48 AM
Howdy. First off -- I know you're a newcomer, but lots of guys here on the forums have pretty good knowledge of Vortecs and engine combos as you can see from reading through the pages here, so keep that in mind for future reference. I'm not nearly as active on the tech forums these days as I was years back, since I've gone on to other vehicles and no longer have my Z28. :bowtie:

That said, I'd keep it to .030"-over and use the stock Vortec valves if they look good. I would not up the valve sizes unless you plan to to do both int/exh ie, 2.02/1.60. Otherwise I'd just use the stockers. As to porting, for what you are doing I would be inclined to leave them as is. Cam profile depends on your final compression ratio and intended RPM range. Using stock PM rods I'd keep it to 5500 max for reliability. For torque, I'd look at something in the 206* - 210* @ 0.050" range for a cam and 9:1 or so compression for 87 octane. I haven't been up on all the latest part # changes and the like, so I can't help you out there. Some of the other guys here might be able to though. Basically I'd just call Scoggin-Dickey or Pace and get their part #s direct from them, and the prices. You could also ask the other guys here and see who is running a solid Vortec combo on 87 octane. In my own case I always ran 94 Chevron which was okay for around town driving, but because the CR of my 400 was over 11:1 I got my best results with an av gas mix and 94.

That boat should work pretty good when you're done. :cool:

.

Dirt Reynolds
09-02-2012, 05:29:20 AM
Here is something some of you may find of interest. This is the "Porting Vortec heads" article in Car Craft from several years back. Found this while looking at the TBI Chips website. CC for some odd reason only shows a paragraph or so, great to see someone put the story up on their site.

http://www.tbichips.com/vortecporting.htm

http://www.tbichips.com/images/vortec1.jpg
http://www.tbichips.com/images/vortec2.jpg

woody80z28
09-02-2012, 11:52:57 AM
Last year I built a Vortec engine for my TBI truck on 87 octane. I used 12cc d-dish KB pistons with the Felpro .015 head gaskets for nice tight quench (.035) and 9.7:1 c/r with a stock LT1 Camaro roller cam (204/207 .447/.459 117). It works great for me and I've never had any issues with pinging...not even when pulling 5000lbs with a 5000lb truck. I checked the knock sensor and it had no knock counts. Timing is at 42 max under light load and 32 max wide open.
http://media.motortopia.com/files/cars/album_drivetrainoverhaul/4e3607041cb4e/tn_full_IMG_6539JPG_Thumbnail1.jpg

david.cordle
09-06-2012, 01:10:50 PM
Ok, I’m in the process of building a "budget" (LMAO :crazy: ) bracket car for my wife to race next spring (1980 El Camino). I recently picked up a std bore 1976, 010 truck motor, 4 bolt main (complete). It has a forged crank, I’m not sure about the rods yet. I plan on taking the block .030 and using a decent flat top piston. I will do the ghetto grind and screw in studs on stock 062 Vortec heads. Lets plan on a flat tappet cam and race fuel IS available. I don’t know if I will sump the fuel tank or not (honestly it depends on the $) so let’s plan on a mechanical fuel pump & stock fuel lines. Now for my questions…

1. How much cam can I safely run and still maintain enough vacuum to operate power brakes? (I don’t want to take it to the edge, but I’d like to see it from where I’m standing, LOL:D )

2. Based on the cam recommendation dual or single plane intake?

3. 1.5 or 1.6 rockers?

4. Spring rate for suggested cam?

5. Carb CFM?

6. Head gasket?

7. TH350, reccomended stall conv.?

This will be her first year racing. Posted a pick below of her $500 soon to be race car. Thanks all!!!

http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x383/davidcordle2/GTO/El%20Camino/photobucket-1223-1346076791756.jpg

rms25thta
09-08-2012, 08:14:33 AM
Here is where I am at with the heads. I cleaned up the combustion chambers. Contoured the big block near the spark plug and gave the wall side of the intake valve a bit more room. Only did what I should have to the intake side. Shaped the valve guide boss in the intake runner to give it some contour and that was it. Took the edge off the entry way into the valve and made it smooth. The exhaust side, which from all my reading is the more challenged side in regards to flow, I cleaned up a bit more. Did the entire port, didn't hog it out, just cleaned it up nice, contoured the boss and again, smoothed out that ridge coming into the valve. Probably overkill for what I am really using them for but I really enjoy doing this. I took the one down to my buddy who builds circle track motors and he gave me an A+ on my work.
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/motoxconnection/EA743551-0912-45CE-A284-4D22BA04059A-3564-00000629E070E1DD.jpg
http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/motoxconnection/5322B2CF-D420-4443-B2A7-2A326BD981EC-3738-00000629F75AC581.jpg

rms25thta
09-10-2012, 12:40:46 AM
Got both heads finished, very happy with the final results.

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/motoxconnection/58151082-26FC-485E-B7F5-DF74425BBFD6-899-0000017FCAB1AE2D.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/motoxconnection/F4A8287B-040D-48B7-B2F7-D83EEB1B6BB6-899-0000017FF98E18ED.jpg

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb163/motoxconnection/690589E6-9398-4A50-B763-2C2E216ED02B-899-0000017FE922FC6C.jpg

rx2man
11-14-2012, 12:46:44 AM
Just an update on todays vortec heads and horsepower modifications. I have stock vortec heads, that i bought alex's springs for that gave me a safe lift to .550" and then have screw in studs, and other than that they are stock.

My car runs 11.90's in the 1/4 mile, and is a very consistent strong running car, and i hope there is still more to be had. I have a chevy 350 bored .030 over with a c/r of 10.5:1 with flat top pistons and vortec heads that i put in a comp cams camshaft that has 236/242 duration and .520/.540 lift. Here is a video of my car running 11.91 at 112 mph. I am the blue thirdgen camaro, i am sorry it is a thirdgen, but it is a vortec headed engine. Car weighs 3300 with me in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHfGI8W3ljY

Hope to show that vortec heads can be made to have some horsepower!

Who is Alex...."Alex's springs". I was on 3rdgen.org and there is a LS6 thread.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tech-general-engine/523323-5-7-vortec-lt4.html

summary below

If you use the GM LS6 beehive valve springs (GM PART # 12499224), Comp Cams retainers 787-16, and change the umbrella valve seals to Sealed Power Part # ST2015, you should be able to get up to 0.550 lift.

No grinding, screw in studs and those parts and cheaper than comp bee hive, if Alex's idea/deal is not better or less $$$$ than this seems the way to go for those of is with a set of stock heads already.

rx2man
11-14-2012, 12:46:45 AM
Just an update on todays vortec heads and horsepower modifications. I have stock vortec heads, that i bought alex's springs for that gave me a safe lift to .550" and then have screw in studs, and other than that they are stock.

My car runs 11.90's in the 1/4 mile, and is a very consistent strong running car, and i hope there is still more to be had. I have a chevy 350 bored .030 over with a c/r of 10.5:1 with flat top pistons and vortec heads that i put in a comp cams camshaft that has 236/242 duration and .520/.540 lift. Here is a video of my car running 11.91 at 112 mph. I am the blue thirdgen camaro, i am sorry it is a thirdgen, but it is a vortec headed engine. Car weighs 3300 with me in it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHfGI8W3ljY

Hope to show that vortec heads can be made to have some horsepower!

Who is Alex...."Alex's springs". I was on 3rdgen.org and there is a LS6 thread.

http://www.thirdgen.org/techboard/tech-general-engine/523323-5-7-vortec-lt4.html

summary below

If you use the GM LS6 beehive valve springs (GM PART # 12499224), Comp Cams retainers 787-16, and change the umbrella valve seals to Sealed Power Part # ST2015, you should be able to get up to 0.550 lift.

No grinding, screw in studs and those parts and cheaper than comp bee hive, if Alex's idea/deal is not better or less $$$$ than this seems the way to go for those of is with a set of stock heads already.


Edit......found it........good price too. Not sure what options I need but this issue is a done deal .550 lift.......HELLO LOL
http://www.alexsparts.com/valve-spring-kit-sb-chevy-vortec-hi-perf-hyd-roller/

retorq
11-18-2012, 10:36:44 AM
We use a special retainer ....

The bottom of the retainer is pretty much "flush" with the bottom edge of the locks.

So he's 'pretty much' selling ghetto grinded retainers ...

Huevotoro
11-20-2012, 01:16:31 AM
Hello everyone - new to NastyZ28 but I joined when I read the whole post on Vortecs....took me two evenings to get through it all...

I have a question: Will the Bowtie Vortecs with 185cc runners do well on a street 327 or would they be too big and kill flow velocity? Reason I ask is I want a head upgrade from my 336 open chamber heads that will allow room for future expansion, utilize my old school valve covers, and pre-1986 SBC Edelbrock Air Gap intake.....I have spoken with a few folks that suggest the 170cc Vortecs but they won't take the old valve covers/intake....don't want to buy those again. Was trying to stay away from aluminum just cuz I like old school.

Anyone out there running a 327 with the 185cc Bowtie Vortecs, please let me know!

Thank you!

Mike

WTR's camaro
12-14-2012, 02:36:51 AM
so let me get this right i can take heads off a mid 90's model and put them on my 1973 350...forgive me...im not old school smart

retorq
12-14-2012, 08:37:52 AM
so let me get this right i can take heads off a mid 90's model and put them on my 1973 350...forgive me...im not old school smart

Yes, it's gotta be from a 96 or later truck.

WTR's camaro
12-16-2012, 09:51:35 PM
well i get ill be looking for a set ...sounds like a great part

1986Z28
12-27-2012, 04:16:50 PM
Just read the entire thread, Some very good info and results. Figured I would post up what I did to my vortecs.

Started with some extremely low mile "906" castings, These have the hardened exhaust seats, but since I was planning on a valve job, this didnt matter to me.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0377-1.jpg

Port entry's are stock, the only porting I did was on the bowls
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0378.jpg

To completely eliminate any seal to retainer woe's and rid the vortecs of the big nasty guide I installed a set of CHE bronze 0.502" dia guides
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0561.jpg

Starting the machine work...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0612.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0617.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0616.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0618.jpg

Exhaust valve job cut to 1.600", there was alot of port work to open up the throats/bowl to accommodate the larger diameter valves.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0738.jpg

Porting getting finished up, exhaust side with raised the roof approx 0.075" and opened up around the guide itself. serious bowl work on both the intake and exhaust. intake port otherwise untouched. chamber was detailed around the valve job but otherwise untouched.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0777.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0782.jpg

1986Z28
12-27-2012, 04:17:22 PM
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0783.jpg

Spring pockets cut for the ID spring locator (used a comp cams 26918-16 beehive spring at first)

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0794.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0796.jpg

Opened up the pushrod areas since I had clearance issues because I ran a adjustable guideplate(also wanted to put a 3/8" pushrod in place but without offset rockers the pushrod pinch would have been way to thin.

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0800.jpg

Also milled the stud bosses and tapped them for some ARP pro series 7/16" studs

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0817.jpg

Next I surfaced them, they cleaned up nicely in about 0.006"

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0805.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0811.jpg

Once assembled I threw them on my 383 and put it on the dyno. Specs are as follows: 383, 10:1 CR, custom hydraulic roller 224/229 duration @ 0.050", .563"/.544" lift (1.6's) and a 110 LSA. edelbrock perf rpm intake, AED 750HO, 36 degrees timing it pulled 474HP and 495 ft lb's of tq. However I was not happy.

1986Z28
12-27-2012, 04:39:35 PM
The engine was running out of air and the more plenum volume I gave it the more power it made(tried alot of spacers) So I decided to pull it back apart...

Just before the first go around on the dyno...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMAG0636.jpg

Then I decided to pull the heads and intake off and make some changes...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0961.jpg

Cylinder walls and pistons look very happy
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0962.jpg

knowing the exhaust side is still standard SBC and very weak I gave it a bit more valve lift in the form of some 1.7 rockers
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0964.jpg

New PSI LS-1512ML valve springs, and Ferrea titanium Super 7 retainers
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0966.jpg

Ferrea Comp Plus hollow stem valves(shaved about 25 grams each...)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0967.jpg

Valves lapped in.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0971_zpscb33d511.jpg

I put them back together with the beehives as the PPP titanium Super 7 radial groove keepers hadnt arrived yet. I could easily switch them out on the engine at a later date.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0973_zps24815e12.jpg

Heads back on.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0976_zpsf7b48c29.jpg

New intake aswell.... GMPP eliminator vortec single plane.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0984_zps44985e6b.jpg

1986Z28
12-27-2012, 04:40:17 PM
After some porting...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0985_zpsff5eb983.jpg

New valve springs installed...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMAG1053.jpg

Rockers back on...
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMAG1057.jpg

Some fresh oil (10W30 synthetic)
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMAG1060.jpg

I also installed a moroso 4 vane vacuum pump at this time.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_1046.jpg
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_1047.jpg

Sold the 750HO and bought a 750HP-HO, a bit more flow and adjustability
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y119/92caprice/IMG_0898.jpg

All these little things I am hoping will push me over the 500HP mark, Its going back on the dyno in the next week or two. I will keep you all updated.

Keeping in mind that our dyno is very stingent(stuska with a Depac) I think 500hp is quite a feat from vortec heads. They have impressed me.

Dirt Reynolds
01-11-2013, 05:00:02 AM
Very interesting build! So what did it make on the dyno after the changes? Also, those 906 heads look like they had some work done to them in the runners. I know you mention you only did work on the bowls, but my 906s didn't look like that [intake runners, port entry] in stock, unported form. Nice job!

1986Z28
01-11-2013, 06:03:16 PM
The runners were smoothed out, thats it. Nothing was moved. Yet to put ot back on the dyno after the changes but I will report back!

SMALLBLOCK79BU
01-19-2013, 12:12:46 AM
Hi everyone! I joined this site solely on the knowledge and experience everyone has with these heads! (I do love second gen metal bumper cars though! Plan on getting one when my G body is done!)

I have my heads off ready to hit the machine shop for screw in studs. and want to clarify some things before they get sent off.

My head set up

906 Cast heads

Stock Valve's, COMP 1417 Rockers, 787 Retainer's, 648 locks, 26915 Springs, and the obvious screw in studs! The cam i plan on running in a comp nitrous 08-383-8 with max lift of 0.540 in. I with the set up will i need to cut down the valve seats? I read some thread's, asked a few people but never really got a solid answer. I also saw in another thread where a guy resat the valve stem seals and ran the same parts measures up to almost 0.600 of clearance! So here i am posting in the god of vortec head threads for a real answer! Thanks for reading this mess of a post haha

I obtained all these parts through work at almost a steal. Its a budget 10:1 Roller 355 (880 block) single plane and as much nitrous as its going to take till it pops! So i'd like to use it all hopefully :)

movovr
02-03-2013, 02:04:28 AM
Hi, I have just had a cam ground for my stock vortec with an edelbrock performer manifold and 600holley no flash set up .My cam spec is a steel billet Hyd roller cam net lift IN-0.428" EX-0.447" IN-198 Dur EX-208 @.050"cam lift Sep-108 IN & EX .
My jetboat revs to about 4200 ATM WOT and only needs to go as hi as 4800 as the jetunit becomes inefficient .It always felt a bit flat and like it wanted to breath more, so Im wondering is this new ground sound ok and what HP would you expect it to make??
Thanks in advance for your help ,I know its not a Camaro ,but you guys seem to know your stuff
Regards
Shane:bowtie:

Jaseac
02-03-2013, 01:08:56 PM
Was wondering if the vortec heads are a bolt on replacement for the stock heads on a 1992 350 tpi

Dirt Reynolds
02-03-2013, 07:24:17 PM
Hi, I have just had a cam ground for my stock vortec with an edelbrock performer manifold and 600holley no flash set up .My cam spec is a steel billet Hyd roller cam net lift IN-0.428" EX-0.447" IN-198 Dur EX-208 @.050"cam lift Sep-108 IN & EX .
My jetboat revs to about 4200 ATM WOT and only needs to go as hi as 4800 as the jetunit becomes inefficient .It always felt a bit flat and like it wanted to breath more, so Im wondering is this new ground sound ok and what HP would you expect it to make??
Thanks in advance for your help ,I know its not a Camaro ,but you guys seem to know your stuff
Regards
Shane:bowtie:


Hi. That cam spec is very close to the RamJet 350 cam, which is 196°/207°, 431"/.451". The RamJet 350 is actually the same engine as the 325 HP Marine engine with a different intake manifold, so that cam looks suitable for what you are doing [jetboat]. RamJet and 325 HP Marine engines both run Vortec heads.


Was wondering if the vortec heads are a bolt on replacement for the stock heads on a 1992 350 tpi

You need a different lower intake manifold to work with the Vortec bolt pattern. Edelbrock sells a high-flow TPI lower intake for use with Vortec heads.

movovr
02-04-2013, 07:34:05 PM
Awesome Dirt!! you are a wealth of info:p and I enjoy reading your posts, thanks so much for your advice;)

Dirt Reynolds
02-04-2013, 11:10:30 PM
Awesome Dirt!! you are a wealth of info:p and I enjoy reading your posts, thanks so much for your advice;)

You're welcome. Glad to help where I can, good luck with your project. :cool:

dfarr67
02-05-2013, 04:27:04 PM
I had a set of burned vortecs that I had rebuilt years ago with the works- never again...good performers but the costs killed the deal. Changed to RHS 2.02/1.6 vortec's that the machine shop assembled wrong (do not use push rod plates with self aligning rockers- didn't realize what they had done until some guides were wasted) replaced with AFR vortec- very high quality, but I would say the RHS heads were very well research for my application, but the weight difference is worth considering. The big question mark for me is how the GM Fastburns would work- very limited info out there even bought a great book of late heads which included everything but....I decided to pass of the deals as the intake cc scared me.

Huevotoro
02-12-2013, 02:39:49 AM
Dirt, anyone - are the 185cc Small Port Bowtie Vortecs too much for a street performance 327 running around 10:1?

Dirt Reynolds
02-12-2013, 07:57:44 PM
Dirt, anyone - are the 185cc Small Port Bowtie Vortecs too much for a street performance 327 running around 10:1?

We would need more info on your combo before making a recommendation, but as a general comment I would say the 170cc L31 Vortec would be the best choice for a typical street 327, making the most low-mid RPM torque. Saying that, I have not used the 185 Bow Tie Vortecs myself.

Huevotoro
02-12-2013, 08:35:41 PM
Dirt - I have a 66 Malibu with a TH-350, 4.11 non-posi, flat top pistons, GM Performance Vortec Dual Plane Intake, Holley 570 and want to run an Isky 270 Mega hydraulic (biggest I can go according to Isky and keep my power brakes). That said, I figured the 170cc stock Vortecs would be the way to go but I want to keep my perimeter bolt valve covers, and have the thicker decks that the Bowtie heads provide. If they are good for my application (and don't kill it from a street performance car point of view) they would allow me to move up in engine size down the road and have the extra breathing ability.....

What other details should I provide? I'd like to get a 1800-2000 stall when I install the cam and maybe an overdrive tranny down the road...

thank you!

Dirt Reynolds
02-12-2013, 09:54:30 PM
Dirt - I have a 66 Malibu with a TH-350, 4.11 non-posi, flat top pistons, GM Performance Vortec Dual Plane Intake, Holley 570 and want to run an Isky 270 Mega hydraulic (biggest I can go according to Isky and keep my power brakes). That said, I figured the 170cc stock Vortecs would be the way to go but I want to keep my perimeter bolt valve covers, and have the thicker decks that the Bowtie heads provide. If they are good for my application (and don't kill it from a street performance car point of view) they would allow me to move up in engine size down the road and have the extra breathing ability.....

What other details should I provide? I'd like to get a 1800-2000 stall when I install the cam and maybe an overdrive tranny down the road...

thank you!

That cam is going to need a bigger converter in my opinion, more like at least a 2800-3000 stall. It's a big cam for a 327. The 4.11s will help a lot. For what you are doing with the CR, cam and gearing, the 185 Bow Tie Vortecs might be a better choice here.

Huevotoro
02-12-2013, 10:03:49 PM
Dirt - I was thinking about 10:1 compression to stay on pump gas but want the car to perform/sound good. Isky said that the 1800-2000 stall would do the trick...I will ask again about the stall as I wasn't sure. I figured since the cam is supposed to come on at 2k that they would have recommended at least a 2200 rpm stall in a 327 (rpm range would move up a little).

my concern is that I don't want the 185cc runners to make the engine sluggish...just wish they were 175 or 180 tops.....

Huevotoro
02-12-2013, 10:05:17 PM
I dont intend to drive the car daily...maybe on the weekends and to work once a week on nice days....

caribbean camaro
02-14-2013, 04:30:36 PM
The best bang for your buck are the H/P Z28 drop-in springs from Scoggin Dickey found here:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/2060/products/81625/1250-H-P-Z28-Drop-in-Valve-Spring.htm
These are good to 0.49" lift and require no modifications. Add a set of valve locks for $7.50 and these LT4 retainers:
http://www.sdpc2000.com/catalog/969/products/2003/GM-Performance-Parts-SB-Chevy-LT4-Valve-Spring-Cap-Kit.htm
and you're at less than $50 for a new high performance valve train. Incidentally, these are the same components that Scoggin Dickey uses on their Upgraded Spring Vortec heads that they charge $339 each for.
-.

I have been trying to piece these items together on Scoggin Dickey for my first try at a Vortec head project

The above quoted links are all dead now - but I managed to search their site and found these :-


1.250 Z28 Valve Spring, Set of 16 - $29.95
https://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-dickey-parts-center/sd1004?line_item_id=17137

Valve Spring Retainers, LT4 Lightweight, Set of 16 - $21.52
https://sdparts.com/details/gm-performance-parts/19171528?line_item_id=17142

7 3/8 Stamped Steel Hardened Valve Locks - $0.55
(32 pieces needed) - $17.60
https://sdparts.com/details/scoggin-dickey-parts-center/sd38?line_item_id=17145

Total: $69.07


The problem I have is the "3/8" measurement on the valve locks -

can these fit the stock vortec head valve?? -

Is there any difference between this measurement and the "11/32" I am accustomed to see mentioned for SBC heads ??

cadride
03-10-2013, 11:29:32 AM
I want to say excellent write up on Vortec heads lots of good info. I would like to get your guys input on if Vortec heads are a good for my application or if you suggest making any changes to my current heads. Done a lot of reading through this post but not much info on boosted engines. I am building a 350 TBI motor in a 94 2wd pickup (not the right forum but you guys have very knowledgeable people on Vortec heads). The primary parts to my build 350 .060 over, Vortec heads light port/port match (mostly casting cleanup) bee hive valve springs, GM Vortec/Carb intake, 2.3 Whipple SC 10.5 psi boost, 9.4 CR, long tube W duals, Comp Cams 08-503-8 Roller Cam, 454 TBI bored to 54mm with 80lbs injectors, 3:73 posi, 29” tall tires, 2500 stall added this winter. I had it together once but due to bad tune and some other issues never got it tuned in on the dyno:mad:. It made 425 rwtq and 315 rwhp. I got detonation on cylinder 7 due to high compression and boost had pinched gauge line and thought I was at 7-8 going to the dyno, and lean tune to start with. I have plenty of fuel now added the EBL computer this winter for better tuning with WB. I also pulled the engine this winter and plan on reducing the CR to 9:1 and still running 10 psi boost. I am not building a race car but would like to build power throughout the power bad with both torque and hp close to the same. I am considering also changing the cam if needed; it was suggested by the machine shop and comp cams knowing the whole build. The head castings have been cleaned up and port matched. Here are the results from CCing one of the heads: combustion chamber 65cc intake 174-185cc (plan to make more symmetrical) exhaust 62-64cc. With the current configuration I have static CR 9.54 Dynamic 7.5 Dynamic plus boost 12.7. I would like the TBI to be my hp limiting factor since I already have so much effort in the TBI, intake, and SC. Sorry for long winded post:)

retorq
03-11-2013, 06:50:42 PM
Sounds like a fun engine. So I'm clear, you are running a Carb intake with a TBI to Carb adapter and sitting the TBI whipple on top of that??

cadride
03-11-2013, 10:04:35 PM
Picture does the best explanation. The SC is originally designed for the TBI setup and to get the vortec heads to work along with keeping the EGR for emissions I had to use the GM Vortec to carb intake. I originally had the vortec to TBI intake but the EGR would interfere with the SC. The aluminum plate in the SC adapter is an water to air inner cooler that I made. The TBI bolts on to the back of the SC with out any adapters. The SC draws the air from the windshield cowl to pull cool air in. Plan on cleaning up the engine bay when the motor goes back in.
http://s1292.beta.photobucket.com/user/chodson28/media/2012-07-22033258_zpsf2829e04.jpg.html?sort=3&o=29
http://s1292.beta.photobucket.com/user/chodson28/media/2012-07-30134412_zpsd0c20204.jpg.html?sort=3&o=28

retorq
03-12-2013, 08:47:30 AM
Very cool. :D I have a Vortec head swapped TBI in my Tahoe, surprises alot of people, I want more of course. I'm getting my hands on a 454 here soon so I will probably mod that and drop that in.

SpeedAddict02
04-13-2013, 05:53:07 PM
Been doing some googling and getting conflicting info..

Wondering if anyone here knows for sure...

Have a '78 305 in my car.. Thinking about swapping the stock heads, -450 casting iirc, for a set of vortecs if I can find some in the boneyard..

Will there be clearance issues b/c of the smaller bore in the 305s??

I believe 305 cylinder bore is 3.73".. 350 bore is 4.00"..

I would planning on running them stock, as is, just swap the springs for the cheap spring upgrade, and maybe put a mild cam in.. Like the Summit 1102 cam.. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k1102/overview/make/chevrolet

Just mild upgrade to wake up the 305 a tad.. Complementing the heads and cam are a performer intake and shorty headers I already have..

I just want to be sure I won't have clearance issues..

Later on when I can step up in cubes, I'll already have heads I can just rebuild and swap over..

thanks

1986Z28
04-14-2013, 11:20:52 PM
Finally got it back on the dyno...

http://youtu.be/EvpfMQHM1yM

482HP @ 6000 RPM, 487 ft lbs of TQ at 4700 RPM

Dirt Reynolds
04-26-2013, 08:30:53 PM
Been doing some googling and getting conflicting info..

Wondering if anyone here knows for sure...

Have a '78 305 in my car.. Thinking about swapping the stock heads, -450 casting iirc, for a set of vortecs if I can find some in the boneyard..

Will there be clearance issues b/c of the smaller bore in the 305s??

I believe 305 cylinder bore is 3.73".. 350 bore is 4.00"..

I would planning on running them stock, as is, just swap the springs for the cheap spring upgrade, and maybe put a mild cam in.. Like the Summit 1102 cam.. http://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-k1102/overview/make/chevrolet

Just mild upgrade to wake up the 305 a tad.. Complementing the heads and cam are a performer intake and shorty headers I already have..

I just want to be sure I won't have clearance issues..

Later on when I can step up in cubes, I'll already have heads I can just rebuild and swap over..

thanks

Car Craft did a dyno test of L31 Vortecs on a 305 several years ago. You can read about it here:

325 HP 305ci with bolt-ons (http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_9903_305_chevy_small_block_engine_build/viewall.html)


Finally got it back on the dyno...

http://youtu.be/EvpfMQHM1yM

482HP @ 6000 RPM, 487 ft lbs of TQ at 4700 RPM

Nice! That engine is making some good power. :bowtie:

EvpfMQHM1yM

sooner
04-26-2013, 09:38:40 PM
Finally got it back on the dyno...

http://youtu.be/EvpfMQHM1yM

482HP @ 6000 RPM, 487 ft lbs of TQ at 4700 RPM

Is that with the same 224/229 camshaft?

That's impressive, nice work.

EricLee6072
04-27-2013, 09:34:07 AM
"Car Craft did a dyno test of L31 Vortecs on a 305 several years ago. You can read about it here:

325 HP 305ci with bolt-ons"
Well thank ya Dirt Reynolds, lol, yep I read it. Enjoyed it a little too much, hmm, yep my wife will understand another project I got to do...

law70son
04-28-2013, 06:39:28 PM
does anyone know what engine suffix is ucx

99 to Life
04-29-2013, 06:07:56 PM
hi guys, getting closer to finally getting to my 350 full roller engine with vortec heads going. I'v narrowed the cam to lt4 hotcam, I like the sounds of it and all the specs and the price of it. 5800rpm, 218/228 dur .492/.492 lift and for $236 (would like a split cam and a 110* lobe sep, but I can sacrifice)

So that being said .492 lift with my 1.6 roller rockers (assuming .030 extra lift) and these drop in springs/retainers from Alex's parts which allow for .550 lift and .050 for coil bind, I'd be over my limit by about .022 correct? But would I subtract .020 for my valve lash from that number?
so I could essentially run this cam/spring combo with no machining? I am on the right track here? I still have to get the parts and check it all on the engine. I planned on reusing the roller lifters.

http://www.alexsparts.com/valve-spring-kit-sb-chevy-vortec-hi-perf-hyd-roller/ best bang for buck without machining that I'v found.
also I feel these springs have been proven nicely by greggy on post 876

Dumb question does the headgasket play into effect with valve lift? I'll be running a .015 felpro gasket if my deck height is .025, with stock pistons, so I can get around 9.5:1 static compression.

I have both 062's and 906 castings to choose from, I'll bore out pushrod hole and I'm running screw in studs. I wanted to run 1.6 rollers since I already have them, could do 1.5's if needed. I will be checking springs for proper installed height and was going to purchase shims incase I need them.

any thoughts would help, this is my first in depth engine build that I'm trying to do right.

retorq
05-01-2013, 10:00:08 AM
hi guys, getting closer to finally getting to my 350 full roller engine with vortec heads going. I'v narrowed the cam to lt4 hotcam, I like the sounds of it and all the specs and the price of it. 5800rpm, 218/228 dur .492/.492 lift and for $236 (would like a split cam and a 110* lobe sep, but I can sacrifice)

So that being said .492 lift with my 1.6 roller rockers (assuming .030 extra lift) and these drop in springs/retainers from Alex's parts which allow for .550 lift and .050 for coil bind, I'd be over my limit by about .022 correct? But would I subtract .020 for my valve lash from that number?
so I could essentially run this cam/spring combo with no machining? I am on the right track here? I still have to get the parts and check it all on the engine. I planned on reusing the roller lifters.

http://www.alexsparts.com/valve-spring-kit-sb-chevy-vortec-hi-perf-hyd-roller/ best bang for buck without machining that I'v found.
also I feel these springs have been proven nicely by greggy on post 876

Dumb question does the headgasket play into effect with valve lift? I'll be running a .015 felpro gasket if my deck height is .025, with stock pistons, so I can get around 9.5:1 static compression.

I have both 062's and 906 castings to choose from, I'll bore out pushrod hole and I'm running screw in studs. I wanted to run 1.6 rollers since I already have them, could do 1.5's if needed. I will be checking springs for proper installed height and was going to purchase shims incase I need them.

any thoughts would help, this is my first in depth engine build that I'm trying to do right.

Where did you get .492 lift for the LT4 Hot cam, I've always seen it listed as .525 with 1.6 rockers.

As for the Alex's part link, he "producting a special retainer" .. meaning he ghetto grinds the stock retainers. I can't believe anyone would pay for someone else to do that while they are building their own engine ...

99 to Life
05-01-2013, 11:18:49 AM
retorq, thanks for the response, I could have worded my question better.

I stated .492 meaning 1.5 rocker, and assuming .030 for the 1.6 compensation = .522, so I was close to the .525 lift your stating

As for the Alex parts, its a good deal if 1. you don't have springs or retainers and locks. In my case I actually do on all my sets.

So upon looking more into scoggin dickey (most their links on here went bad)
I found SD 1005 https://sdparts.com/index.php?q=details/scoggin-dickey-parts-center/sd1005 stock diameter and 130# @ 1.8 install height with .600 max lift and for $53 plus shipping, seems like a little safer bet for me.

But still with alex's parts for $100, say I bought the springs for 60 bucks, thats 40 bucks for retainers and locks, which is about what it would cost to get them from anyone else. So its basically just a package deal and saves someone from grinding down the retainers, that sadly doesn't have a bench grinder at the moment, like me!!

wayfast84
05-07-2013, 09:58:48 AM
I had vortecs machined for my sbc around 6 years ago and it's popped 3 rocker arm studs and pushrods with the very little time I used the car(It hasn't been fixed in 4 years). This is my set up.
Motor is a 400sbc
Vortec heads
234/244 @ .050" .488"/.510", 114 LSA cam
Performer RPM intake
Speed demon 750

I was wondering if I could get some opinions here. At the time I had the heads machined I supplied the machinist with Crane springs that needed no machine work on the guide clearance, he said he couldn't use them and used his own. He would have checked this clearance right? Could my issue be caused by this?

I had 1.6 ratio rocker arms on it and I didn't have the heads machined for it and I've since got 1.5 ratio's. I don't have guide plates as I self aligning rocker arms. My only other guess is pushrod length?

If the pushrod length is correct. What springs can I do that require no machining and doesn't need me to remove the heads? I was looking at the alex option but I'm not sure if I need to have the heads removed.

Any help is appreciated. I am looking forward to enjoying a reliable cruiser finally!

retorq
05-08-2013, 09:09:38 AM
Stock push in studs still??

AlwaysWaven
05-08-2013, 12:04:27 PM
This may have been posted before, but I did not know we could use LS6 or LS1 springs on Vortec heads -

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/vortec_valve_spring_upgrade/

retorq
05-08-2013, 09:04:26 PM
This may have been posted before, but I did not know we could use LS6 or LS1 springs on Vortec heads -

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/vortec_valve_spring_upgrade/

Yeah that's what I did, it's burried in here somewhere ...

1986Z28
05-09-2013, 02:30:22 AM
Is that with the same 224/229 camshaft?

That's impressive, nice work.

Yes its still the 224/229 cam.

wayfast84
05-09-2013, 09:46:32 AM
Also thank god I have screw ins!
Yeah that's what I did, it's burried in here somewhere ...
How big is your cam? I had an LSx I was going to swap a cam into and read a lot about breaking.

AlwaysWaven
05-09-2013, 10:07:47 AM
Yeah that's what I did, it's burried in here somewhere ...

I figured, but after all the reading I have been doing this semester I was not about to add 60 pages of vortec head info.

Just make sure that you do not buy used ones from 02 - 03 ZO6s.

retorq
05-10-2013, 09:43:47 AM
Also thank god I have screw ins!

How big is your cam? I had an LSx I was going to swap a cam into and read a lot about breaking.

It's small, one of the old school 214/224 grinds.

retorq
05-10-2013, 09:45:23 AM
I figured, but after all the reading I have been doing this semester I was not about to add 60 pages of vortec head info.

Just make sure that you do not buy used ones from 02 - 03 ZO6s.

LOL I don't blame you!

Mine were fresh from the GM parts place, I wouldn't use used springs for this, they were only $75ish for all of them if I remember right.

AlwaysWaven
05-10-2013, 10:07:07 AM
LOL I don't blame you!

Mine were fresh from the GM parts place, I wouldn't use used springs for this, they were only $75ish for all of them if I remember right.

That is my thought too, but I am almost sure that someone, when I was researching, wrote that he bought used springs off eBay. Saving $45 is not worth worrying about catastrophic failure all the time.

Urban Samurai
09-05-2013, 11:48:02 PM
I am putting together a different project, 79 corvette. I decided to upgrade the 195 HP motor with something with a little more pep.

I have enjoyed the thread and picked up a set of 906 that have had some minor port work with 2.05 intake and 1.60 exhaust valves. I thought I would share. I will probably run a mild cam such as a xe284 or 294. :crazy:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc222/urban-samurai/vortec.jpeg (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/urban-samurai/media/vortec.jpeg.html)

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc222/urban-samurai/vortec1.jpeg (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/urban-samurai/media/vortec1.jpeg.html)

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc222/urban-samurai/vortecint2.jpeg (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/urban-samurai/media/vortecint2.jpeg.html)

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc222/urban-samurai/vortecexah.jpeg (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/urban-samurai/media/vortecexah.jpeg.html)

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc222/urban-samurai/vortec3.jpeg (http://s214.photobucket.com/user/urban-samurai/media/vortec3.jpeg.html)

Sbc rocker
11-23-2013, 06:46:31 PM
Hey guys I'm new to the site and I have a question. I just pulled a vortec 350 out of a 2000 2500. The kid said you pull the motor and you can have it for 50 bucks. I said deal, better yet he told me his dad put a jasper crate in it 30000 miles ago. They blew the trans and wanted to put a cummins in it. Anyways now I got this complete jasper vortec. What makes it better is I'm 15 and this kids 16 and is an idiot.I wanna put the heads on my freshly rebuilt 350, fresh as in it has 12 miles on it. I need to know what axactly what I need to buy spring and shim wise. I put an xtreme 4x4 comp cam in it with 454 int 462 axh. Also do I need to drill out the pushrods guides with this low of lift. It's a hyd flat tappet.
Thanks

58Chev
11-24-2013, 09:00:35 PM
HI Folks,
I joined this site because of the wealth of knowledge posted in this thread.
First off, I do not have a Camaro, My project is a 58 Chevy Delray. Approx curb weight of 3400 lbs. I am in the process of rebuilding a 1969 250-275hp 350 (0010 block) that came with it. The suffix code tells me that it is from a Caprice or other passenger car.

Primary use will be street/highway, cruising the town, no strip/drag at all. Using a rebuilt '99 TH700r4.

I would like to liven up the current block. I will be purchasing a set of used Vortec heads, #906 from a local wrecker. Hope to just bolt them on with no modifications if possible.

List of add-on’s that I’d like some input on as to whether the combination would work or not:
Edelbrock 2716 Performer EPS Vortec Intake Manifold
Edelbrock 1805 Thunder Series AVS 650 CFM Card, Manual Choke
I’ll most likely purchase the intake & carb kit, comes with gaskets & installation hardware.
My dilemma is in what cam selection would be best for street performance? Once again, keep in mind NO Mods to the Vortec Heads, block has not been decked at all either.

Comp Cams K12-210-2 "High Energy" Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft and Kit
Fits 1955-1998, Chevrolet 265-400 cu.in. V8s

RPM Range: 1,500 to 5,500 rpm
Duration @ .050" lift: 218/218 (int/exh)
Valve lift: .454/.454 (int/exh)
Good street performance with stock converter, choppy idle.

Comp Cams K12-207-2 "Dual Energy" Hydraulic Flat Tappet Camshaft and Kit
Fits 1955-1998, Chevrolet 265-400 cu.in. V8s

RPM range: 1,200 to 5,500 rpm
Duration @ .050" lift: 203/212 (int/exh)
Valve lift: .421/.451 (int/exh)
Good torque, good mileage.
Good RV & towing cam. Smooth idle.

Or stick with a complete Edelbrock top end?

Edelbrock 2102 Performer Plus cam kit for use in 1957-1986, 265-350 Chevy V8

Duration (in degrees): 278/288, lift: .280/.295 (int/exh)
Use only stock ratio rocker arms
Do not use dual springs

The Comp Cams are complete kits, should I even be looking at complete kits or just camshafts with lifters?
I have read that with the Comp Cams I should replace the timing chain & gears with appropriate hardware.

I'd appreciate any input on selection and \or changes to my selection.

ThanX
Frank

Sbc rocker
11-26-2013, 04:50:55 PM
I'm not sure if this thread is still alive anymore:whine:

FatnLow
11-26-2013, 05:10:17 PM
From first post. Valve lift max for heads. Crane sells cheap springs also.

Mike - thanks for the sticky. :cool:

I'm sure anyone interested in Vortec heads will find this thread to be quite useful and informative for their own Vortec engine build and questions concerning using the same. The idea is for anyone with Vortec experience and/or info to post here in this thread so as to pool our Vortec knowledge. Anything Vortec-related is welcome.

So -- without any further ado, I'll start things off. :cool:


What exactly are "Vortec heads"?

Beginning in 1996 to '00, L-31 Vortec heads were installed from the factory on GM truck and van 350 engines. These newly designed for 1996, state of the art heads are made from cast iron and replaced the former swirl-port TBI heads that had been previously used on the GM truck 350. Instantly the HP rating increased 55HP to 255 HP primarily from the power of these cylinder heads.

What makes Vortec heads any different from other GM steel heads?

Pretty much everything. Beginning with the intake port, which is 170cc with a cast-in 'ski jump' on the port roof which is there to increase port flow velocity, port flow was designed to be high in the .300"-.500" valve lift area to make power with relatively low-lift truck camshafts. The bowl area is wide around the guide - much wider than the old 'camel-hump' heads from back in the day - and the intake valve seat has a 3-angle grind from the factory. The intake valve is also back-cut as is the exhaust. The exhaust port, considered to be the "weak" part of the otherwise steller-flowing Vortec head, actually does not flow that bad but because the intake port is so good, responds better to port work than does the intake and there is a strong feeling in some camps that these heads make best power with a split-duration camshaft because of this aspect. The exhaust valve seat also comes from the factory with a 3-angle grind and back-cut valve (except as noted below). The combustion chamber design was a radical departure from anything GM cast in iron prior to the introduction of these heads, and is of a 'double-quench' design. Highly efficient, best power is made with 32° total timing, although these heads can make power with timing reduced to 29° when used with short-duration camshafts.

How many versions are there of 'Vortec' heads?

Realizing that today, several manufacturers have tooled-up their own reponses to GMPP's highly successful debut of the L-31 Vortec for the budget small block crowd, thus far we have several versions to choose from in the performance aftermarket:

GM L-31 Vortec
GMPP 'small port' Vortec Bow Tie
GMPP 'large port' Vortec Bow Tie
GMPP 'Fast Burn'
Edelbrock E-Tec 170
Edelbrock E-Tec 200
Dart Vortec replacement head
RHS Vortec
EQ Cylinder Heads Vortec

L-31 Vortecs -- there are two castings with two versions of one of these castings (#906). The two castings are the #062 and #906. The #906 is the same as the 062 with the exception as noted below. Using the 906 heads myself, I can safely say do not worry about any percieved weakness in HP potential in comparison to the 062. They both make the same amount of power. The 062 is the head you will get when buying the Vortecs from the dealership/GMPP.

Vortec heads were designed based on the 1996 Caprice 9C1/Impala SS LT1 cast-iron head castings. The only difference is the water jacket revision so these heads could be used on conventionally-cooled small blocks. The 1996 LT1 cast-iron head was the highest-flowing LT1 head used by GM. These heads outflowed the Corvette/f-body aluminum LT1 heads reportedly by 20 cfm on the intake side. The cast-iron head was in development 6 months longer than the aluminum head and during that time GM engineers tweaked the ports for the additional flow.
Two Vortec castings were used from 1996-99 on GM CK trucks ('00 in vans) and SUV's utilizing the Vortec 5700 350 engine. The #906 and #062. The #906 casting head was available in two versions. One has an Inconel exhaust seat with a single angle grind, and the other has the conventional 3-angle grind on the exhausts as per the #062. The #906 with Inconel seat does not intrude into the exhaust port. It was used primarily on the HD and 1-ton truck applications where sustained towing of heavy loads & weight up inclines could cause eventual damage to a standard induction-hardened exhaust seat from excessive heat.
The only difference between the #062 and #906 Vortec head is in the exhaust seat of the HD/1-ton truck #906 version, as described above. The #062 has a 3-angle grind on a standard induction-hardened seat, as does the non-HD #906 head. The 062 does flow slightly better on the exhaust side at low lifts but the advantage over a 906 is very slight. They both utilize back-cut exhaust valves. They both have 3-angle grind seats on the intakes with back-cut intake valves. Both heads make the same power in stock form.
Vortec heads were used exclusively in trucks and SUV's. No passenger cars were equipped with these heads.
Stock out-of-the-box Vortec heads have approx. 480HP potential naturally-aspirated. Fully race-ported flowing 275 cfm @ 28" water with 2.055/1.60 valves, potential is approx. 580 HP. There are reports of some shops getting close to 300 cfm out of these heads in fully-ported form.
Retainer to guide clearance is the primary Achille's Heel of the Vortec. For valve lifts above .460" they need to be checked for R-G clearance. This varies from head to head. Some find they can get .480" and slightly more valve lift fine. Others will find .460" about the limit. Always check R-G with any performance cam above .460".Great, I'm interested in Vortec heads, but am concerned about retainer to guide clearance. What can be done about this, and, are there any places I can buy Vortecs already modified for use with high-lift camshafts?

Good question, easy answer.

Scoggin-Dickey sells Vortec heads already correctly modified for use with high-lift performance camshafts. They also sell a complete kit which has the modified Vortecs, intake manifold (Edelbrock Vortec), rocker arms, etc to basically bolted on your existing short block.

Sallee Chevrolet has an interesting solution to this problem (from their website):

The Sallee Chevrolet solution is to use Crane Cam’s 10309-1 drop-in valve spring and retainer kit which is good for .550” lift with no machining. The installed height for this Crane Cams kit is taller and the lower part of the retainer is shorter. The “AVERAGE” clearance between the retainer and seal is .575” for this kit. We have found that some of the Vortec heads, coming from the factory, do not have the valve seals driven on all the way. You need to check that they are before installing this kit. If they need to be driven on all the way, we have found that a 3/8” drive - 1/2” socket fits the valve seal just about perfect.As with all modifications to performance engines though, you should always measure to assure that there is proper clearance and fit.

Comp Cams sells a tool that will cut down the size of the Vortec valve guide and is around $50 or so.

Another method is the infamous Vortec retainer "ghetto grind". If the camshaft being used only requires a stock 1.25" diameter single-wound valvespring, it is possible to only need to grind off approximately 3/32" off the bottoms of the stock Vortec retainers with a grinder or on a grinding wheel to achieve enough R-G clearance to run up to approximately .530" -.540" safely. I must caution here that R-G clearance must ALWAYS be checked to verify that there is in fact enough clearance - also include allowing for coil bind. One other thing - you must remove the dampner in this modification. Don't worry -- the stock Vortec valveguide being much larger in diameter than other SB heads will act as sort of a dampner and I never noticed any RPM issues related to lack of running one when I did this mod. Although myself and others who have done it this way have had no problems, I must caution this basically for those on a strict budget and cutting down the guides either with the Comp tool or at a machine shop is the best way to go. However, I'm of the opinion that since it works well within the noted constraints, then you're really only out your time to grind down the retainers. The choice is yours.

More to follow. :cool:

retorq
11-29-2013, 06:10:55 PM
I'm not sure if this thread is still alive anymore:whine:

It's alive, all the questions you asked have already been asked and answered.

ez2cdave
03-26-2014, 02:03:10 PM
Well, here is the first post for 2014 . . . What an excellent thread, full of valuable info !

manicmechanic
04-07-2014, 10:45:41 PM
I have seen a lot of posts about spark plugs for these heads and thread depth and how far they stick into the chamber. Here is a shot of R44LTS installed in a vortec head:
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l240/Stinkfngr/IMAG1408_zpsbcxsywda.jpg (http://s97.photobucket.com/user/Stinkfngr/media/IMAG1408_zpsbcxsywda.jpg.html)

4 speed
05-30-2014, 09:23:58 AM
hopefully someone here may be able to help me out.

looking at a set of vortec's with a casting # 16185906 he says they are large port after market heads but he doesn't remember the brand. there is no GM cast into the head anywhere. they are 2.02 heads

CorkyE
05-30-2014, 09:37:12 AM
What's your question? *906 is a GM Vortec number but I didn't find those prefix number on mortec.com

Could be some type of aftermarket head.

Redfred
10-14-2014, 05:38:43 PM
Hopefully I didn't just miss it but does this thread address what headers seal up best with vortec heads? All I understand right now is to match the gasket to the header tube shape, not the port shape of the heads. I'm in the market for a basic set of long tube 1-5/8" primary headers for my vortec heads but I'm not clear on the primary tube shape I should be shopping for. Any info on this would be great. There are many contradicting opinions on the web.

grzewnicki
10-14-2014, 07:23:42 PM
I have the Hedman elites 1 5/8 tube-round, and haven't had any issues with sealing.

Redfred
10-15-2014, 06:44:58 AM
Ok. I'll contact Hedman to see if they have a set for my application.

Did you use the gaskets that came with the headers?