View Full Version : So back me up on my new motor plans


blake22
03-18-2013, 01:46:01 AM
Im about to start building the new motor for my 79. The block and crank are at the machine shop getting bored and turned. heres my set up

.030 over 010 350 block
cast crank 10/10
stock rods
Dont have pistons yet but im looking at some -3.5cc speed pro hypers
trick flow 195cc 2.02 1.60 72cc chambers
with summits compression calculator i came up with 9.41:1 comp
intake? dont have yet but maybe air gap or the like
shorty headers to 3in dronemasters dumped

Ive been reading around and have my eye on a few cams but i would like to get a second opinion from yall before i order. This is my "daily" really a street strip car. The cam i was looking at is 288/298 214/224@.050 .443/.465 lift and 112lca. Would that be a good choice or should i go a step or two up?

hhott71
03-18-2013, 04:32:01 AM
Part number of the -3.5cc Speed Pro piston.
Is this a flat top piston?
Or a 0.100" dome piston?

Flat tops with 64cc chambers is always 10-10.25:1 compression.
The 0.100 dome makes it 11:1 compression w/64cc chambers.

The 72cc will get you that 9.4 comp w/ flat tops.

Get the 64cc chambers if you can, that extra compression is worth it since you will use premium gas anyway.

Your cam is OK, a bit mild. But great for the street, decent MPG, some rumble and more HP/TQ than stock.
Get real full length 1.625" Hedman Hedders and 2.5" exhaust, H pipr Turbo mufflers, tailpipes optional. You are not going to make power above 5000-5500 rpm with that cam, so make torque with complimentry parts. The Performer Intake is what you need and a QJet or 600 cfm Holley or Edelbrock AFB.
Get a 11" 2500 rpm stall, and 3.42 gears. OR 4.10 gears with an OD transmission. That will add 100 butt dyno HP.

The Carb and Intake can get swapped (and sold) later IF you get aggressive with the cam, converter and rear gears.

blake22
03-18-2013, 11:18:50 AM
Im asking what cam to get so i can do it right the first time and make a good chunk of power. Im not looking for near stock. I want to do the best with the parts i already have. Like the heads. I already have them and thats what they are because i got a good deal on them. I already have 3.42 gears and i like my headers. I have read everyone talking about shorty vs long tube but i picked shorty because of clearance. Anyways i thought the cam selection was rather small too so the next step up that i see is maybe 282/294 216/228 @.050 .435/.480 lift 112lca. This a little beefier? Im looking at elgin cams right now. I have used them in the past and had good luck.
The pistons im looking at are here http://www.ebay.com/itm/SB-Chevy-350-355-3-5cc-Domed-Pistons-Moly-Rings-030-/380556371562?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item589aed666a&vxp=mtr
The head gasket i used for the calculation was .041 compressed and a 4.166 bore dia. Also i used a deck clearance of .045. Is that about right?

blake22
03-18-2013, 11:20:24 AM
The Carb and Intake can ge swapped (and sold) later IF you get aggressive with the cam, converter and rear gears.
So basicly what im saying is lets go aggressive with the cam now:cool:

1971SS
03-18-2013, 12:01:50 PM
with what you have, I'd go with Howards Cams 110991-08, 275/275 221/221 @ 50 .470/.470 lift 108 LSA ...a weiand street warrior intake and a 2000-2500 stall converter...

if I were planning on say, atleast 3:73's at a later date, I'd go with Howards Cams 110951-08, 275/285 221/231@50 .470/.470 lift 108 LSA...same intake but go at least 2500 stall...

Madmike72
03-18-2013, 12:10:58 PM
Trick Flow has top end kits. Check and see what cam they match with your heads and use that as a referance point. they will prob recomend something on the larger size for the rest of your combo (3.42=mild) but its a

Madmike72
03-18-2013, 12:11:49 PM
whoops...its a good starting point

hhott71
03-18-2013, 12:49:06 PM
Im asking what cam to get so i can do it right the first time and make a good chunk of power. Im not looking for near stock. I want to do the best with the parts i already have. Like the heads. I already have them and thats what they are because i got a good deal on them. I already have 3.42 gears and i like my headers. I have read everyone talking about shorty vs long tube but i picked shorty because of clearance. Anyways i thought the cam selection was rather small too so the next step up that i see is maybe 282/294 216/228 @.050 .435/.480 lift 112lca. This a little beefier? Im looking at elgin cams right now. I have used them in the past and had good luck.
The pistons im looking at are here http://www.ebay.com/itm/SB-Chevy-350-355-3-5cc-Domed-Pistons-Moly-Rings-030-/380556371562?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item589aed666a&vxp=mtr
The head gasket i used for the calculation was .041 compressed and a 4.166 bore dia. Also i used a deck clearance of .045. Is that about right?
The 216* cam will add a few more HP but you are limited by the low compression that you have.

You better have 0.025" deck height. You should use the Felpro 1094 0.015" thick gaskets. You have to have 0.35-.050" quench, the 1094 gaskets give you 0.040" Chevy used embossed steel shim gaskets (like the 1094's) for decades on the SBC. The composite gaskets are NOT an improvement. IF you deck the block 0.025" those Blue rebuilder 0.41" gaskets will be OK. It's cheaper to buy the 1094's.

The proper quench allows higher compression.

The 0.100" domes those ebay pistons have should give you about 10 to 10.4:1 with the proper 0.040" quench and your 72cc heads.
You could step up to a cam with 230* Intake duration. Add in a 10" TCI Super Streetfighter converter.
Yes its about $500 but it does kick ass.
The Crane 284 Energizer it is .480" lift, 228* Dur, 112* LC, you can get this cam with 106* LC and it will be a rougher idling cam with a strong midrange torque, also availaable with 110* LC.
I went low to mid 11's with a 10:1 motor and that cam in a 2800lb Vega, a 3300 lb Camaro would go 11.60-11.80 with a decent chassis.

BondoSpecial
03-18-2013, 03:22:45 PM
aftermarket heads and such a small cam is a waste of good heads. I won't pick a specific cam b/c everyone has a different idea of what is correct but if you have such good heads and run much under .500 lift you are just leaving so much on the table

76z28
03-18-2013, 07:59:35 PM
I would get something in between the xe268/274. Pretty much my set up minus the compression(I'm around 10.5:1) and mine will lay rubber all day but I do have 3.73s and a 3500 stall

blake22
03-18-2013, 11:13:24 PM
I guess ill try and explain what im trying to do in more detail. The car was my only daily till recently when i got my truck rolling. So now i want a nice hot rod i can drive around when i feel like it and go to the track and run at least in the eights but idealy the high 7s. (1/8 mile). So heres what i already have..

.030 block
crank
rods
195cc trick flow heads
1.5 full roller rockers
headers
3.42 gears
th350 with stock stall

What i dont have and need to decide on what to get is..

pistons
intake
cam and lifters
carb
other small stuff

I am on a budget but im willing to spend what it takes to build a decent small block. I want to be able to run 93 octane pump gas on the street easily. Most people say dont go over 10:1 with pump gas. I am also not buying forged pistons im getting hyper. I understand ill need a stall but im going to address that later. I would rather keep my 3.42 gears since im already turning 3000rpm at about 65. Lower gears and a 6 spd might be in the future. Im fine with buying the correct quinch head gaskets i have just never had to do that before so i used that style for my compression calculation. So after reading what yall had to say if i used the pistons i posted and the 1094 head gaskets that would put me around 10:1. Then if i used a 288/288 230/230 at .050 .480/.480 lift on a 109lca cam along with a 2500 stall i should be about right?

1971SS
03-19-2013, 07:56:42 AM
from your signature, the "81 Camaro z28 drag - 355 4 bolt/th400/4.56 10 bolt" sould tell ya something what's needed to run the 1/8th like your wanting...

blake22
03-19-2013, 09:43:31 AM
from your signature, the "81 Camaro z28 drag - 355 4 bolt/th400/4.56 10 bolt" sould tell ya something what's needed to run the 1/8th like your wanting...
Guess i need to update that. We sold the car to fund another project. But it did run 8.9 with a stock motor besides 305 heads intake carb and headers.

blake22
03-20-2013, 02:15:46 AM
Any more input on the last cam specs i posted and plans?

TheMeat
03-23-2013, 11:18:38 AM
As mentioned above, everyone is going to have a different opinion on which cam to run.


MY recommendation; call http://www.jonescams.com/2006catalog_001.htm and get a custom spec'd cam for a few dollars more.

Next thing I see is your converter. HUGE gains to be had spending some $$ on a quality higher RPM stall converter.

Get your heads, cam, and converter matched up to compliment one another and the rest should be easy.

woody80z28
03-23-2013, 12:04:09 PM
I am on a budget but im willing to spend what it takes to build a decent small block. I want to be able to run 93 octane pump gas on the street easily. Most people say dont go over 10:1 with pump gas. I am also not buying forged pistons im getting hyper. I understand ill need a stall but im going to address that later. I would rather keep my 3.42 gears since im already turning 3000rpm at about 65. Lower gears and a 6 spd might be in the future. Im fine with buying the correct quinch head gaskets i have just never had to do that before so i used that style for my compression calculation. So after reading what yall had to say if i used the pistons i posted and the 1094 head gaskets that would put me around 10:1. Then if i used a 288/288 230/230 at .050 .480/.480 lift on a 109lca cam along with a 2500 stall i should be about right?

I ran a similar cam with Vortecs and .039 quench at 10.55:1 in my 355 and never had any issues on 93. Great little street engine. With your Trick Flows it should be even better.

blake22
03-23-2013, 11:56:10 PM
Cool deal. Got the block and crank back from the machine shop. Pulling the trigger on the pistons and rest of the parts right now! ill report back with progress and times! Thanks for all the input!

blake22
03-27-2013, 12:33:25 AM
What should i run for a fuel pump? I would like to stay mechanical for now but i guess i wouldnt totally be against setting up an electric. I had a holley blue on my drag car and it was a peice of junk.

hhott71
03-27-2013, 08:47:58 AM
What should i run for a fuel pump? I would like to stay mechanical for now but i guess i wouldnt totally be against setting up an electric. I had a holley blue on my drag car and it was a peice of junk.

The Carter pump is great.

The Carter mechanical will satisfy most any very high powered engine.
Some folks will back up that pump with the Cater Electric pump.

I know of a few 10 and 11 second Bracket racers who have gone through a few Holley blue pumps and decided to give the Carter pump a try. They are still using that Carter electric pump.

Blown Camaro
03-27-2013, 03:52:29 PM
I am a little agressive on my builds but here is what I suggest for a hot street car:

9.5-10.0 compression
Zero deck with flat tops
.040-.045 quench
234-244 @ .050 duration
.500 lift
180cc intake heads 2.02/1.60
Locked timing @ 34 degrees
with start retard
Performer RPM intake
750 Holley DP
3500 stall 10 inch converter
3.73 gears

If this doesn't run low 12's, you did something wrong!

AJ_72
03-27-2013, 04:52:23 PM
I'm going to tell you what I did to my car. I was on a very limited budget and just scoured and scraped what I had and what I could afford to make my car driveable and fun without breaking the bank (or putting me in the dog house) so take it for what it's worth.

My car had a rod knock since I bought it but I ran it how it was. With crappy mufflers, rusty headers, Performer intake and Vortec heads and a "480 lift cam" (quoting previous owner). Other than that, I knew very little about the engine, stall speed and rear end other than it was a posi rear end.

After freshening everything up (hoses, belts, fluids, etc.) I took it to the strip and ran it how it was. It ran a 13.8 ET @ 99.15 MPH. I ran that twice out of 3 runs. The third run I ran over a spot of water someone slung onto the track after dragging their front tires through the water box. :rolleyes:

Keep in mind, that was on 87 octane with the timing dialed back to 33* total timing.

After finally scoring a free short block out of a '91 Z28 I yanked the engine that was in the car (the one with a rod knock) and tore it down. I found out it had .030" over dished pistons (I'm gonna guess -12cc's), Felpro 1003 gaskets (.041" thick) and the "480" lift cam was actually a Magnum 280 (230* @.050" and .480" lift). I have no idea what compression was, but I know it ran great on 87 and still had plenty of torque to roast the hides when I wanted to, even though I pulled a 2.00 second 60' time. Figure that one out. :screwup:

The Z28 short block has straight flat top pistons with 4 eyebrows, so I'm guessing -5.5 to -6.5 cc's. I used some cheap Rohl .044" thick gaskets to help keep the compression in check (Uh-oh, here comes the quench police :rolleyes: ). If the deck height truly is .025" above the pistons, I figure I'm running between 9.4:1 and 9.6:1 (depending of if the Vortec heads are 64cc or 62cc).

I still run it on 87 octane with slightly more timing, at 34* total.

I haven't had it to the track since then, but with all that stuff changed, freer flowing mufflers (Thrush welded), rebuilt rear end (stuck with 3.42 gears) and a 3,000 stall converter (the one in there was labeled as a 3,000 also, but was very, very loose) it's a lot snappier and healthier. If I ride out 1st gear to a nice casual 20mph then hammer the throttle, the BFG's scream in protest through the rest of 1st gear.

If I ever do get it to the track I have a feeling traction is going to become a serious issue.

Anyway, there are many, many things people can tell you that are easy for them to say because they get to spend your money for you. As I implied earlier, I know my quench is thick enough to hide a stack of dimes, but I did what I could with what I had. Sometimes bending the rules and going against the norm doesn't always mean catastrophe. It may not be optimum, but neither is everyone's budget.

blake22
04-19-2013, 03:14:02 PM
Thanks for the input AJ 72. I agree. Do what you can wih what you have. I have now have the short block together. Few more weeks and it should be in my car. The rebuild is going real slow since it seems like im always forgetting a bolt or some small par at home and having to wait till the next day to work on it again. Ill keep yall updated