View Full Version : Dayum, Check out this thread on cheating
06-21-2002, 12:34:00 PM
Check out this thread on cheating
31 pages !!
06-22-2002, 08:35:00 AM
After having read the whole thing...
That shit makes me sad.
Just plain old sad..
06-22-2002, 11:28:00 AM
Here's a description of a device we built as a lab project at DeVry in 1976 and used in my '68 Plymouth. Our device was basically a hard-wired 16 bit multiplier/comparator that compared the distance left in the quarter with the product of the speed and time remaining. When speed x time left exceeded the distance left, we turned off the power to the light-triggered ignition. It worked okay, but was never used effectively because of the hard limiting and inconsistent driving. The circuit board had over 100 TTL chips, we used BCD thumbwheel switches to input the data, and a 4096 bit incremental encoder for the distance measurement which gave us a resolution of about .020".
The right front spindle was drilled out and a speedometer coupler fitting installed on the back. A rod brazed to the dust cap went through the spindle into the speedo coupling, then via cable to the encoder. An incremental encoder generates a continuous string of pulses, so zero can be anywhere, and with a 26" tire we got about 50 pulses per inch. We had BCD switch inputs for elapsed time, rollout and total distance. 4 digits (9999) for e.t., 3 digits (999) for rollout and 6 digits (999,999) for total distance. The zero button also operated the line lock, so releasing the button started the car rolling. When the rollout got to zero, the clock started counting down, the distance started counting down, and the multiplier started up, multiplying the speed ( in pulses per .01 sec ) by the time remaining ( in .01 seconds) and comparing it to the distance remaining. At some point the distance remaining is less than the speed-time product and it's time to slow down. The car popped and bucked a lot at the top end, no soft limiter, just on and off.
As far as detecting the starting lights, You don't really want to detect the light, you want to detect the heat. The NHRA uses floodlamps at the starting line that produce much more heat energy than light energy. I did some lab studies on lamps many years ago and developed a trigger circuit that could detect a 25 watt lamp from a distance of 100' in broad daylight. Now you can buy a detector for your porch light that can detect the heat from a man from 50' away.
06-23-2002, 08:01:00 AM
The thing is..
Racer are by default a diehard band.
Diehard in the sense that we tend to keep with what works more often then not.
The simple fact that telemetry could be used to control ANYTHING on a car today is a simple reality.
Just take a look at a common cell phone thatīs sold for a few bux.
Hell..it sports a 48 layer card.
A palm pilot..need i go on?
Lasers are friggin everywhere-and theyīre a dime a dozen.
That a talented(and not even that a necessity) racer could dream up stuff to "bend" the rules?
Youīd better believe it or be stuck behind him!
IMO it goes to hell in a handbasket the moment the big bux arrive on the scene.
Racers are racers and always have been.
That means that we can honestly survive WITHOUT the vast amounts of money in racing today.
Price check doesnīt HAVE to say 50000 dollars.
06-24-2002, 12:29:00 PM
I hate to say it, but cheating is as old as racing. Hell just last year in F1 McLaren got busted for altered fuel...
Everyone looks at Smokey Yunick's old NASCAR antics as cute and innovative, but image if you has to run against that guy.
Early Trans-Am guys got busted constantly for acid dipping body panels ect...
Don't get me started on the SCCA Solo II boys
They can stop cheating in the NHRA, its easy... just elminate all on-board electronics. No data logging expect for units installed by track officials. If you want to run fuel injection, teams must supply a detailed wiring diagram to track officials, which is subject to real-world verification prior to staging.
06-24-2002, 12:47:00 PM
Sorry Lowend,but i donīt agree with you.
To me the prob is on another level.
A man i got to know personaly and truly respect wrote a book entitled "to ride,shoot straight and speak the truth".
Mr Jeff Cooper.
Thatīs what the prob at hand is.
Get rid of the object that sustains the greed i say(the money involved).
As for running EFI.
1/The era of the BB;s are about all gone in pro racing.
2/Electronics are here to stay.
3/A talented racer could VERY well hide any and all telemetry WITHIN the ECU schematics.
4/Disrupting signals is not an option-as one looks at all the legal issues involved.
5/Insisting on everyone running carbs and "basic" ignition would be trying to get the evolution of things to run backwards.Ie;not possible either.
Weīre simply confronted with the fact of dishonest racers.Simple.
I donīt by any means feel that money is the root of all evil,not by a lightyear.
Racers are racers.That means that the TRUE racers do this for their OWN souls and hearts.Most of us still are that kind(just take a look at all the "grassroot" racing going on).
Not that itīs EVER going to happen,but hey..
495 cubic inches of fogger injected Viking thunder in a 71 z-28.
Viking thunder (http://home.swipnet.se/mechanixracing)
Mail me at
06-26-2002, 11:36:00 AM
Wow. Kind of sad.. not unexpected, but sad. I've lost some respect for the drivers if this is all true. I used to think they were super-human ripping off consistant .500-.510 lights. Hell, if I'm pulling under a .550 for the night I'm doing great !
But, like the guy who started that thread said, if you get beat by a cheater enough times you don't care about it yourself. And I'll add, especially if your personal income/lifestyle depends on it.
What blows me away is the level of sophistication they've gone to.. Using a handheld camera to read the lights, and then launch the car via the driver's helmet radio ? I guess you could run wires down the inside of the fire-suit to the finger tips ( or boot heels, or right/left palms ) and have that be the link to the onboard electronics... Of course, just screw that and hide a radio inside the roll cage tubing. You'd need to X-ray the entire car to find it. Like that guy said, the driver is just along for the ride.
You CAN'T get rid of the money. Who'd pay for the parts without some way to re-coup the loss. Not to mention insurance on the strips, fans, and racers to stop every sue happy moron...
Maybe they need an IROC type thing for Drag racing. Identical cars, prepped by a third party or sanctioning body. And you don't even know what car you're getting that day, or even that ROUND until you walk up to it. Maybe that'll work. I guess until they start putting implants IN the drivers...
355, Solid Lifter 278/288 .490 cam, Sportsmen II heads, Edel. Perf. RPM, Edel 750, HEI, TH-400 w/2000 stall, 3.73 diff w/ Powertrax locker.
06-26-2002, 10:08:00 PM
My73LT,, I must be EXTRA SUPER HUMAN. Most of last year I was cutting .490 to .495 lights,,, consistantly!!!! (DOH!)
I think it's obvious the technology is out there for the cheaters. Fortunately where I race everybody is either too broke or too stupid to be concerned about anybody having such trinketry on their car.
06-27-2002, 11:26:00 AM
I disagree with you point as well, lets just back to horse and buggy racing.
There are just too many ways to hide things these days, some of the smallest microchips can fit on the head of a pin. putting a ban on all electronics will make more people cheat or use "unapproved" devices and worst part you can't see them.
There are good driver who can cut a light on a consistant basis, remember for some of these drivers, bracket racing is how they make a living. Cutting a light is one thing but its the finish line driving that sets these guys away from the pack.
Cheating is out there, no doubt, but the other racers should step-up and speak out if they see something highly questionable.
06-27-2002, 01:09:00 PM
Don't get me wrong
I'm not saying that everyone has to go back to carbs and 12" clutch 4spds.
I think that the majority of electronics on the car are use for data logging.
If that is the case, why not have a mandated data logging system that is controlled by the track officials (like restrictor plates in NASCAR).
Ban radios from the cars... what reason (or time) does a driver have to talk to his crew during a 7 second pass anyways??