View Full Version : 200r4 question


ctchap70
06-20-2011, 11:49:22 PM
I think I heard somewhere that the 200r4 trans is the same length as the turbo 350 and that you can use your stock drive shaft. Is this true and what should be done to beef it up to handle 400 hp and tourque? Thanks CC

Aceshigh
06-20-2011, 11:54:13 PM
Yes , same length.

What can be done to beef it up to handle over 400hp??
Start reading > http://www.jakesperformance.com/200-4R_Rebuild_Tech.html

The billet forward drum upgrade is the big one.

Patrick73RS
06-21-2011, 01:01:41 AM
+ 1.
Got my 2004R from Chris at CK performance and loved the upgrade.

Brown`77Z28
06-22-2011, 05:59:31 PM
Yep it`s a pretty easy bolt-in and you will looooove that OverDrive ;) :crazy:
I have one from Jake modified and all with all the good parts.

2ndgenguy
06-22-2011, 07:18:45 PM
I did this swap a few weeks ago. It was easy, just had to do a little modification on the cross member. I put it in for power tour, made the tour and blew the front pump on my way home. I had all the upgrade parts but not the time to install them. I am only running 350-375 hp and puked a freshly rebuilt stock one. I was trying to save money and swore I would take it easy on it for the tour, couldn't help playing a bit on the gm proving grounds though. Cost me an extra 1000 miles of driving to go home and get my truck and go back and get it. Lesson learned. Make sure you get the upgrades. Oh, I did get around 20 mpg with a 3.73 rear doing 75-80 on the interstate :)

70 gsconvt
06-22-2011, 10:17:16 PM
I have a 200-4R trans in my Buick GS. From the Buick board, and these transmissions came in all the Grand Nationals, there are only three names that come up as being the best at building one to take abuse.

CK Performance http://www.ckperformance.com/resources/GM2004RCATALOG.html

Janis Transmissions in Akron, OH http://local.yahoo.com/info-15649588-janis-automotive-transmissions-akron

CPT Transmissions in California (Art Carr) http://cpttransmission.com/

I got my parts from CK, and Vince Janis built it for me. His shop is only 25 minutes from my house, so it was a no-brainer for me. Four years in my car behind my 462 cid Buick engine pushing 500 hp and no complaints.

jakeshoe
06-22-2011, 10:58:53 PM
I have a 200-4R trans in my Buick GS. From the Buick board, and these transmissions came in all the Grand Nationals, there are only three names that come up as being the best at building one to take abuse.

CK Performance http://www.ckperformance.com/resources/GM2004RCATALOG.html

Janis Transmissions in Akron, OH http://local.yahoo.com/info-15649588-janis-automotive-transmissions-akron

CPT Transmissions in California (Art Carr) http://cpttransmission.com/

I got my parts from CK, and Vince Janis built it for me. His shop is only 25 minutes from my house, so it was a no-brainer for me. Four years in my car behind my 462 cid Buick engine pushing 500 hp and no complaints.

There are several other good 200-4R builders. Lonnie@ Extreme Automatics is one, Mike Kurtz in Tx, and a handful of others that can make them live.

arick793
06-22-2011, 11:09:04 PM
I've asked this question before, and what I got was "do you really want to use your stock driveshaft b ehind a 400 hp motor?". Driveshafts and U joints are usually one of the first driveline upgrades I guess.

70 gsconvt
06-23-2011, 08:25:59 AM
There are several other good 200-4R builders. Lonnie@ Extreme Automatics is one, Mike Kurtz in Tx, and a handful of others that can make them live.


I'm sure there are other reputable shops that can build them. These are the three that the Buick community always mention when someone wants a good transmission.

jakeshoe
06-23-2011, 03:56:05 PM
I'm sure there are other reputable shops that can build them. These are the three that the Buick community always mention when someone wants a good transmission.

In the Turbobuick community,
I've never seen CPT recommended.

CKPerformance, Extreme Automatics, Vince Janis, Bruce Toelle, David Husek, Jason White, Otto's, and myself were most of the heavy hitters in that market. I quit dealing with them due to demand for my 4L80Es and some issues with the aftermarket parts quality, I believe some of the others have quit or slowed down.

Aceshigh
06-23-2011, 04:37:08 PM
Dave Husek from Husek Performance out of NY is a great guy. Same day shipping.
I turned to him for parts after CK was taking too long. Their shipping can take weeks.

CK Performance has a great reputation, but I gotta be honest peeps. I had some real difficulties waiting for parts from them for weeks , nearly months. My level II rebuild kit came with stuff missing. Took 3 weeks to get those parts in the mail. I ordered more things, took weeks to get those as well.

So if you're a shop looking to do builds, be advised. There's threads from other builders out there saying this too. He's got a phenomenal 200 page performance manual (http://www.ckperformance.com/resources/GM2004RTECHNICALMANUAL.html) that's $70 and priceless to own if you're doing a build though. Took me 2.5 months to get it because it was being reprinted. As a hobbyist, I had more time to wait. It was still very much so a PITA.

jakeshoe
06-23-2011, 07:51:53 PM
Dave Husek from Husek Performance out of NY is a great guy. Same day shipping.
I turned to him for parts after CK was taking too long. Their shipping can take weeks.

CK Performance has a great reputation, but I gotta be honest peeps. I had some real difficulties waiting for parts from them for weeks , nearly months. My level II rebuild kit came with stuff missing. Took 3 weeks to get those parts in the mail. I ordered more things, took weeks to get those as well.

So if you're a shop looking to do builds, be advised. There's threads from other builders out there saying this too. He's got a phenomenal 200 page performance manual (http://www.ckperformance.com/resources/GM2004RTECHNICALMANUAL.html) that's $70 and priceless to own if you're doing a build though. Took me 2.5 months to get it because it was being reprinted. As a hobbyist, I had more time to wait. It was still very much so a PITA.

Stace,
I've had the same issues with CK over the years, plus others that caused me to quit doing business with him, hence part of the reason I don't do 200-4Rs.
I think Chris is a sharp guy and means well but gets over his head at times.

I will also say for the general knowledge of the forum,
when you are dealing with specialty parts, such as Chris, myself, and others make, sometimes it is hard to set a timeline.

An example,
I have 7 4L80Es waiting on input shafts. 5 of these are already built, waiting on shafts, one has been waiting for almost 2 months now. I FINALLY got 2 shafts today. Customers get irate when they think you are yanking there chain, when in fact your stuck waiting on a specialty part. I've been there too many times.

I make some of my own stuff now. Pretty much an ongoing list of stuff being made in a small run for prototype and testing purposes.

My 4L80E transbrake seperator plates, I ordered another 100 to be made a month ago, still waiting on them.

Jake

70 gsconvt
06-24-2011, 07:15:10 AM
In the Turbobuick community,
I've never seen CPT recommended.

CKPerformance, Extreme Automatics, Vince Janis, Bruce Toelle, David Husek, Jason White, Otto's, and myself were most of the heavy hitters in that market. I quit dealing with them due to demand for my 4L80Es and some issues with the aftermarket parts quality, I believe some of the others have quit or slowed down.



CPT is Art Carr. He is considered by many to be the authority in high performance transmissions. He used to have a shop called Art Carr Transmissions. But he sold it to some people that relied on the name recognition for business and put that company right in the toilet. CPT is Art's new business.

jakeshoe
06-24-2011, 06:24:30 PM
CPT is Art Carr. He is considered by many to be the authority in high performance transmissions. He used to have a shop called Art Carr Transmissions. But he sold it to some people that relied on the name recognition for business and put that company right in the toilet. CPT is Art's new business.
:rolleyes:
I'm more than familiar with the who's who of the performance trans industry.

1BAD78
06-24-2011, 07:01:50 PM
Hey Jake how do you find a 200-4R. My local performance tranny shop said they are hard to come by. Is this true?

jakeshoe
06-24-2011, 07:57:44 PM
Hey Jake how do you find a 200-4R. My local performance tranny shop said they are hard to come by. Is this true?

The cores are getting more scarce but I still have a decent supplier.

70 gsconvt
06-24-2011, 08:16:15 PM
Almost always something for sale here: http://www.turbobuick.com/forums/

70 gsconvt
06-24-2011, 08:27:57 PM
:rolleyes:
I'm more than familiar with the who's who of the performance trans industry.

And you've never heard of Art Carr?? He's only been referenced in may car magazine articles out there, such as this:

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/ccrp_0909_overdrive_transmission_swap/index.html

Aceshigh
06-25-2011, 12:21:23 AM
And you've never heard of Art Carr??

That's not what he said, This is what he said.
In the Turbobuick community,
I've never seen CPT recommended.
Everyone in the GM transmission world has heard of Art Carr.
He's just not referred to very often at all on the TurboBuick forums.

Jake is our resident trans expert on this, and several other forums.
Look at his siggy.

351maverick
06-25-2011, 12:45:52 AM
one of the reasons I picked up my 86 monte was the factory 200r

they're out there, you just have to look

GeauxTiger
06-25-2011, 10:18:14 AM
I think I heard somewhere that the 200r4 trans is the same length as the turbo 350 and that you can use your stock drive shaft. Is this true and what should be done to beef it up to handle 400 hp and tourque? Thanks CC

Plenty of info on the subject (search is your friend) I believe Jake has covered most of it for sure.

Where is Fort Necessity??? Ft. Polk??? Providing it is these guys are roughly 120 miles from you.

Every Transmission Tester on the PATC Dyno.

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/

ordered this and 3 days later it was in Tampa!

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/200-4r.htm#Level 3:happy: :happy: :happy:

Good luck!

jakeshoe
06-25-2011, 05:42:22 PM
That's not what he said, This is what he said.

Everyone in the GM transmission world has heard of Art Carr.
He's just not referred to very often at all on the TurboBuick forums.

Jake is our resident trans expert on this, and several other forums.
Look at his siggy.

I'm glad there are still some people who can read and understand English.

Brown`77Z28
06-25-2011, 06:05:29 PM
Heyy Jake,

My 200-4R is still going strong and I`m loving it almost every day, I think it`s one of my best investments for my car if not THE BEST ;) :crazy: :happy:

Take care
Rene

Jason7504
06-25-2011, 07:17:21 PM
I got mine from Lonnie at Extreme Automatics..would have gotten it from Jake but he stopped..It should be here next Thursday. can't wait :)

ctchap70
06-29-2011, 11:16:29 AM
Plenty of info on the subject (search is your friend) I believe Jake has covered most of it for sure.

Where is Fort Necessity??? Ft. Polk??? Providing it is these guys are roughly 120 miles from you.

Every Transmission Tester on the PATC Dyno.

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/

ordered this and 3 days later it was in Tampa!

http://www.transmissioncenter.net/200-4r.htm#Level 3:happy: :happy: :happy:

Good luck!

Fort Necessity is in North Louisiana south of Monroe. Thanks CC

ctchap70
06-29-2011, 11:28:29 AM
Thanks everyone for the responses. Thanks for the link Geaux Tiger. You must be from around here.

So are the 200r4's from S10 trucks worth rebuilding? If so, any years better than others? Charlton

ZS10
06-29-2011, 02:33:29 PM
So are the 200r4's from S10 trucks worth rebuilding? If so, any years better than others? Charlton
Don't think you'll find any in S10 trucks.

ctchap70
06-29-2011, 05:03:55 PM
Don't think you'll find any in S10 trucks.

Dang, what do they have in them? All along I have been thinking that is what the automatic ones had and I know where three of them are sitting in the weeds. Charlton

XxWickedz28xX
06-29-2011, 05:25:33 PM
They came in monte carlos, buick regals/grand nationals, and buick roadmasters to name a few.

GeauxTiger
06-29-2011, 06:01:34 PM
[QUOTE=ctchap70]Thanks everyone for the responses. Thanks for the link Geaux Tiger. You must be from around here.


Your welcome and yes I'm from around there about 60 miles west of Alexanderia. Leesville, a small town where the women are few and the sheep are nervous.

Good luck with your plan. I actually just took a short spin the tranny feels good and always feels ready! Like a little voice saying go ahead I'm here for you!

Widowmaker01
06-29-2011, 08:36:36 PM
Dang, what do they have in them? All along I have been thinking that is what the automatic ones had and I know where three of them are sitting in the weeds. Charlton

700R4's.

ctchap70
06-29-2011, 08:51:56 PM
700R4's.

Widowmaker, do you know if they are the good 700R4's or the ones to avoid?

Anyone else know? Thanks Charlton

Aceshigh
06-29-2011, 11:56:57 PM
Any 700R4 made after 1987 or 1988 are the better cores.

They came in monte carlos, buick regals/grand nationals, and buick roadmasters to name a few.

I have a page in my 2004R booklet that ID's every year and vehicle they came in.

I'll try to remember to scan it and post it.

ctchap70
06-30-2011, 01:17:53 AM
So a 87 model good or bad?

Aceshigh
06-30-2011, 01:24:47 AM
Yes.

Read post # 4

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195932

ctchap70
06-30-2011, 11:17:32 AM
Thanks for the link Aceshigh. CC

Leonards78LT
07-01-2011, 01:04:47 PM
So a 87 model good or bad?

The 87 model is a decent one to use only if you have a mild engine behind them, around 300 rwhp. There are harden parts (sunshell, ouput shaft etc.,) that can be purchased to beef them up, along with a transgo shift reprogramming kit, sonnax corvette servo and oil pump mods which will live behind 400 rwhp. I think the last year of the 200R4 was around 1991?

Several years back, my local yard had TONS of these, and went largely ignored while people were yanking the 700's left and right.

IMO- the 200R4 is just as good if not better than a 700R4 compared stock to stock and the 200r has a more even gearing, while he 700r has a more agressive 1st gear (2.94 vs. 3.06), while in OD the 200r has a 67% OD, compared to the 700's 70% OD. Does not sound like much, but does make a difference.

There is a guy on this forum named Jakeshoe, he's the one I would get in touch with.

Jason7504
07-01-2011, 03:11:17 PM
^the 200-4R has a 2.74 first gear not 2.94 :crazy:

Leonards78LT
07-02-2011, 01:12:01 AM
^the 200-4R has a 2.74 first gear not 2.94 :crazy:

Oops! Where in the heck did I get 2.94?:confused:

TexasT
08-06-2011, 10:37:02 AM
Hey Jake how do you find a 200-4R. My local performance tranny shop said they are hard to come by. Is this true?

while I'm not Jake here is a suggestion.

http://i444.photobucket.com/albums/qq167/texastandgransport/9f59ff58007aPanIdpic.jpg

Look under some cadillacs, the big rwd ones of course. Some of the mid eighties wagons too, and while you are under the wagon check it for an 8.5 with a posi.

dcart1
08-06-2011, 12:29:04 PM
some people say the buick one will bolt on to the 350 and others say not. Do they all all the several bolt patterns for chevy and buiick etc?

Aceshigh
08-06-2011, 12:48:33 PM
some people say the buick one will bolt on to the 350 and others say not. Do they all all the several bolt patterns for chevy and buiick etc?



There's 3 different kinds of 200-4R bellhousing bolt patterns.

If it's the BOP specific it won't bolt to a chevy.
If it's the BOP & Chevy it will.

http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/transmission/32608-200-4r-tips-tricks-saved-tools-i-learned.html#post259346

TexasT
08-06-2011, 12:54:30 PM
There's 3 different kinds of 200-4R bellhousing bolt patterns.

If it's the BOP specific it won't bolt to a chevy.
If it's the BOP & Chevy it will.

http://classicoldsmobile.com/forums/transmission/32608-200-4r-tips-tricks-saved-tools-i-learned.html#post259346

All the ones I have pulled from Cadillacs n Buicks have chevy and BOP bellhousing patterns. I keep hearing about the BOP only but I've never come across one.

Aceshigh
08-06-2011, 12:55:42 PM
I keep hearing about the BOP only but I've never come across one.

I'd venture a guess that this was one of the EARLY 200-4R's , then GM
realized it was probably better to just make the dual-point bellhousing.

Just speculation tho.....

Someone said it was only made in 1983 for Caddy's.....not sure if that's true.