I have a 76 and wondered if these alternators are up to the task of running amps or is it more likely my grounds.
The audio sounds ok when the engine isnt running and is ok for about 15 minutes running, then gets a static sound. No whining, but more like a bad radio signal. RCA's run down the opposite side of the car from the speaker wires.
Only one amp is hooked up right now. It's an alpine 4 channel 100watt rms x4.
2 guage runs to a distribution block and then 2 4 guage runs to the trunk. Block is at the firewall.
I posted this in electronics section a few days ago, but things seem pretty slow there. No replies.
Thanks for any ideas.

One of my friends had a similar problem many years ago, here in europe...
Not in a camaro, ok....
It was a bad ground connection.
Try putting a wire from the ground of the amplifier to the negative of battery. If it works ok is the bad ground connection.

Figured I had good ground, but maybe not. I'll have to find some time to mess around it more.
I dont listen to it much in a 4 gear car anyway, but when I hit the highway it would be nice.
Everything worked perfectly in the shop over the winter just hooked to a battery. As the battery got low, I got the same sound. Hook up th charger and it was right back to good sound.
There's a new battery in the car and it's taking a full charge, so ground is where I'll start. Cheaper than an alternator. lol

Thanks

I have a 76 and wondered if these alternators are up to the task of running amps

The GM engineers designed your factory alternator to run the car's electrical needs.
Not the needs of additional large amp drawing stereo equipment.

If you're adding on stereo equipment you need to figure out how much more
juice you need your generator to pump out, to supply enough juice for your amps.

Sure it will work for awhile, but you're not charging the battery like you're supposed to be.
Then your battery will take a sh**. That's basically what's going to happen.....

My suggestion is to just get a CS130 140amp alternator if you're adding one amp.
If you're adding 2 or more, you'll probably need more then that. Louder it gets, the
more juice it sucks.

I wont be listening to it often because I like to hear my car, but I have an Alpine m605-400rms x1 and a mrv345 4 channel-75rms x4.
I've installed many stereo's without any real tech knowledge but this is starting to annoy me. Everything is fine while the vehicle isnt running. 15 minutes into running and it goes for a crap. I swapped the grounds and still have the same issue.
Is there a junk yard upgrade I can grab for an alternator? Bolt in?
I have a 3 wire alternator and am looking for a cheap fix as I have other priorities for the car. It's new to me. :happy:

Also, can I run a 0 guage wire straight to the alternator from power on the battery? Leaving th power to the starter obviously. Will it aid in charging the battery? I did what is referred to as the "big three" on my 93 chevy truck and wondered if there is a simular upgrade for the Camaro

yeah a third gen 105 amp alt is a bolt in, from a pre-serpentine belt car (pre 1988 I think). you just swap out the multi rib pulley for your v belt pulley and wire it accordingly for a CS series upgrade

Got it, thanks.
Full size trucks have them too?
I'm sure they would. I'll know when I hit the bone yard. Need some A pillar trim too, so it's an excuse to go for a stroll.

Appreciate the input fellas. :cool:

Got it, thanks.
Full size trucks have them too?

Yes. I think the newer GM trucks use CS-144's though, and they are big
AMP Generators. The LY6 one I got is 160amp from the factory.

I think someone else told me they go up to 200amp, but not sure if that's true
or what models to find them on.

Do you happen to know off the top of your head if it's the same wiring configuration for these big amp alternators?
I can build a motor, but I cant wire a set of tail lights. lol

It's just 2-3 wires on a modern alternator.

Frankly IMO it's the best way to break the ice for a wiring newbie.
It's so simple that when you're done it will give you more confidence. :bowtie:

Just get the biggest you can that matches your pulley setup and mounts correctly.
Then come here and ask about the pigtail wiring, and we can help.

Ricardo just posted a pigtail site that I rehosted in the High Tech Retrofits sticky.
http://www.qualitypowerauto.com/catalog.php?item=81

Holy moly Ace, He doesnt need but around a 100 amp alt. He's not running 4 15" subs!!! lol Batt should last awhile with a 100 amp alt. The original is 60 amp I believe on my 73 no A/C. not sure if it was different with A/C. I ended up going 100amp when I bought the camaro.

I'm not sure what the amperage was for the factory alternator.
70 something amps ??

I just factor in 2 amps for a stereo on average.
One amp for 4 speakers
One amp for a Subwoofer.

140 amps puts you in the clear with a little room for growth. :)
I'm putting my CB radio in my Camaro again. LOL

xnRwQjTYfGI

lol, been awhile since I seen that movie. Classic

If I go the junk yard route, I'll make sure I get the connector and hard wire it to the existing harness.
Will the fuseable link have to upgraded or will it be ok?
Shyte...I'll have to look around the wire pile. I bought a 350 last year just because it was cheap and it was complete with alternator and starter. Parted it out, but I still have the harness somewhere. :cool:

Here's a quick way to figure out what size alternator to run.

If you're running a 100 watt, 4 channel amp (25 watts at each channel) all you gotta do is divide the wattage by the amp's efficiency, then divide that by the voltage.

Since this is a 4 channel amp, it's probably a class A/B amp. Those run ~60% efficient.

100 watts ÷ 0.6 (<- 60% in decimal form) = 166 watts
166 watts ÷ 13.5 volts = 12.3 amperes

That's at full volume.

If it's an amp that puts out 100 watts at EACH channel (400 watt amp), then it'll require, basically, four times as much current.

400 watts ÷ .6 = 667
667 watts ÷ 13.5 = 49.4 amperes

Again, that's at full volume.

Without having fuel injection, with every option in the car on (headlights, rear window def., heater blower full blast, and the stereo at full tilt) I'd go out on a limb and say you might actually need a larger alternator than the stock 60 amp if that amp is a 100 watt x 4 channel amplifier.

If not, and it's only 25 watts x 4 channels, no worries. The stock 60 amp will be fine.

It's 75 rms x4 at 4ohm and 150 x4 at 2 ohm load
The mono is 400rms x1 at 4ohm and 600rms x1 at 2ohm load.

Damn, I just polished and anodized this alternator. lol

AJ is a very astute student of stereo theories.

I've always been told you go by your fuse ratings on the Amp itself.
This one has 20A x 2 so they said 40Amp directly from the manufacturer.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-rBblvWF6OhR/p_206ZX3504/Kicker-ZX350-4.html

I'm going to start a thread asking you or Batman :D

might his static noise come from another source like a bad condensor in the ingition or so?

I have a 76 and wondered if these alternators are up to the task of running amps or is it more likely my grounds.
The audio sounds ok when the engine isnt running and is ok for about 15 minutes running, then gets a static sound. No whining, but more like a bad radio signal. RCA's run down the opposite side of the car from the speaker wires.
Only one amp is hooked up right now. It's an alpine 4 channel 100watt rms x4.
2 guage runs to a distribution block and then 2 4 guage runs to the trunk. Block is at the firewall.
I posted this in electronics section a few days ago, but things seem pretty slow there. No replies.
Thanks for any ideas.

If you're getting noise 15 minutes AFTER the car's been running, then it's something in the car that's causing RFI (radio frequency interference) or else the amp's got an internal issue that only shows itself when it gets up to temperature, or a combination. Some things to try are:

1. Disconnect the RCA's and see if the amp stays on. It's possible you have a bad ground and the amp's trying to get its ground through the RCA's. It'll work for low power draw, but once you get above the limit the RCA cable can give you'll have some issues, including the cables melting. I've seen it more often than you'd think!

2. If the amp stayed on when you disconnected the RCA's, hook up a walkman, Ipod, or other MP3 player to the amp to see if the sound's coming through the RCA's or if it's in the amp itself.

3. If the issue is internal to the amp, it should still have issues once it's warmed up. Crank the system so that the amp really gets warm. Then turn off the car and still play the system. Still have the noise?

4. Run the power for the amp (I've used jumper cables to do this) to another car that's turned off. This way you can isolate the voltage supply. Still have the noise?

This process of elimination, while not 100%, should isolate the problem and as to where it's coming from. Once we know where it's coming from, we can help eliminate it. Hope that helps.

AJ is a very astute student of stereo theories.
Astute? You make is sound like I'm a con artist. ;)

You are quite the opposite. Very vague rules of thumbs which "I've always been told". Just because you're mamma always said you are a handsome boy, doesn't mean it's true. LOL

Using the same math, and using 14.5 volts (I use 13.5 to be safe), it comes out exactly to 40 amps on that amp you listed, Ace.

175 x channels = 350 watts.

350 watts ÷ .6 efficiency = 583 watts

583 ÷ 14.5 volts = 40.21 amperes

These are mathematical formulas used in electricity. They're not "theories". I'm more of a "teach a man how to fish" guy, opposed to "give a man a fish".

Thanks Batman. Great places to start looking that I had no clue about.
I get it all except how to hook another source to the amp. I'm an old guy and my toys are just as old. But I do have an ipod I can swipe from the wife.

Aj and aces, I appreciate the info. Same answer different approach.
I too prefer to know the math end of it. It might make me look smart at some point. lol
So I seem to be drawing around 100 amps between the two amplifiers. Does having the gains turned down change my bottom line?

If that's a class d mono amp, figure 75 percent efficiency.

Thanks Batman. Great places to start looking that I had no clue about.
I get it all except how to hook another source to the amp. I'm an old guy and my toys are just as old. But I do have an ipod I can swipe from the wife.

Aj and aces, I appreciate the info. Same answer different approach.
I too prefer to know the math end of it. It might make me look smart at some point. lol
So I seem to be drawing around 100 amps between the two amplifiers. Does having the gains turned down change my bottom line?

Go to Radio Shack, Walmart, etc. and get yourself a cable that's got a headphone plug on one end to 2-RCA's on the other, like this...

http://lh4.googleusercontent.com/public/pRFV1LXSSXisu-ICmGPHJkK518X51yWRxt0u4VvNGhEh0UxMV3PJKIVEns6eP9_qoezXoVBfdPT6y9Hjz4G0_M4LUYnxs5qgGbi83rPv-s7DwTtpY_SQ7xZKsQDjjxl5Jyoh42ux4ujU

Hook the headphone end into an MP3 player and the RCA's into the amp. Important: TURN THE VOLUME DOWN ON THE MP3 PLAYER!! Start the car and turn on the radio; that'll turn on the amp. Press play on the MP3 player and adjust the volume. Let it go for 20 minutes or so. If no static where you're playing it at the same volume that you would have static in the car after the same time, then the problem's not in the amp, but rather the RCA cables or the radio itself.

Astute? You make is sound like I'm a con artist. ;)

You are quite the opposite. Very vague rules of thumbs which "I've always been told". Just because you're mamma always said you are a handsome boy, doesn't mean it's true. LOL

I pay you a compliment and you retort with an insult. LOL

BTW my mother said I looked like Eddie Munster as a kid.

It's only an insult if it's true. ;)

Just bustin' yur chops, holmes. You know how it is.

As RXL pointed out, the "rule of thumb" you heard is pretty much true. I was just showing why.

It's actually an easy way to find out the TRUE wattage of those POS amps like Pyle, Soundstorm, Autotek, Boss, Crunch, etc. Just do the opposite.

If an amp only has a 40 ampere fuse hangin' off the side, then you know it doesn't really put out 2,000 watts (peak or otherwise).

14.5 VDC x 40A = 580 watts
580 x .6 efficiency = 340 watts

That's if those POS amps are actually 60% efficient. Highly doubtful.

And now you know, the rest of the story.

I know, no worries. Jason explained this math theory to me
Before as well as classes (efficiency) of various amps but I
Never remember it. I should write it down

I've always looked at the fuses on the amp too. ;)

Thanks Batman, I think there might be a couple of those around here. Kids have all the tech toys.
I have the motor all tore apart right now, but I'll be sure to look back on this.
Started cleaning things up abit, and well.....I'm sure you've been there a time or two. 3 days later.....lol

Pet peave of mine is folks who dont post up when they have resolved a problem.
I still havent got to my audio. Everytime I look into somthing on the car,I find out what kiind of butcher owned it previously.
Removed the rear bumper 3 days ago and just got it back on last night. Of course with repairs comes cleaning and painting of everything I can get to on all these little projects. I'm starting to see why folks get frustrated and do an off frame.

LOL

I know what you mean about people not following up.

The only problem I seem to have with car audio is, I can't get enough of it.

There's so much I do it's crazy. I change amps like it's going out of style. I just bought a new head unit last weekend, and there's nothing wrong with the old one.

The worst part is, this is in my daily driver. I'm hesitant to put anything in my Camaro because I know I'll never be satisfied.

I like a nice clean sounding system too. Something that I can hear going down the highway with the windows down and isnt a big ball of distortion when I slow down. lol
As it turns out, the Alpine mrv-f345 has the 1/2 channels blown. I bench tested it last night. Nothing but high pitched distortion from some 6x9's that are known good speakers.
Still has 2 good channels on the bridgeable 3/4 channels though. One of my kids can use it for a sub. I have an old Coustic 4 channel thats a nice clean amp.
I have a ground problem at the HU thats so bad it pops in the speakers though. I have never had so many grounding issues in any other vehicle.
Time to break out the zero guage and beef up the cars grounds. If it even has any. lol
I know I have an iffy ground or power problem at the starter. Once in awhile the car wont turn over and if I disco the power at the battery and put it back on, the interior light comes on but still just a click from the starter. So far a good twist and pull on the cable has got me going, but for how long. lol
On the list of repairs it is. Headers make it a real pita to get to. I'm sure they are the wrong headers for the car. Actually touching the solenoid.

Whats on everyones favorites list for head units?
I've had them all I think, and Pioneer always seems to offer up a great sounding unit at a great price. I just tossed an Alpine IVA d310 7" touch screen dvd in a pile and opted for a Pioneer DEH-5900IB I had laying around. It crushes the Alpine for sound quality hands down. This is a $200 head unit. :confused:

I just installed a double din, touch screen, nav, and DVD Pioneer with blue tooth and back up camera into a 2009 Impreza with steering wheel controls. This radio is AMAZING and the picture is just the same!!!!

Here's a link to the radio on Crutchfield, it's the AVIC-X930BT........

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-fJdJPtg4UV8/p_130AVIC930/Pioneer-AVIC-X930BT.html

It does everything but flushes the toilet when you're done!!!!

I have never had so many grounding issues in any other vehicle.
I would guess this has to do with the body mounts. The battery is ground through the front chassis. Anything hooked in the rear (including tail lights) has to run through the bolts that tie the front chassis to the body.

I'm just speculating though. I've never hooked up a system in a 2nd gen F-body so I have yet to run into a problem.

At least I know what to look forward to when I do something in my car.

I cleaned up the exsisting grounds the other day but still havent added any. Started trying to resolve an off idle hesitation that snowballed. Can a bad plug cause some radio noise?

Dedicated grounds in the trunk area, dash, and engine bay are a good idea..After X amount of years corrosion plays hell with them..

Agree'd. I'm adding a minimum of 2 more from frame to body, front and rear.

Ok, added some grounds.
Engine to chassis, battery to chassis, battery to body, body to chassis.
I still have an "INTERMITTENT" crackle from the head unit that is only coming from the HU's internal amp. In other words, the crackle is only audible in the speakers hooked to the HU's outputs.
I have it grounded to the body in the same place as the battery is grounded, so technically, grounded to the battery and chassis.
It only happens with the engine running.
Can the source be from the power?? Could my fuse block have a bad ground?
Scratching my head here.
Next step is to power it straight from the battery and see how that goes.

Block ground and body to chassis ground just went to 00 welding cable. So far, so good.

Alright, what the #*!*^# is going on now. :mad:
Everything was good for abit and now more grief.
Nothing has changed as far as equipment or wiring goes.

My fronts started to pop on and off. They are wired to the HU and the rears are to an amp. With the volume all the way down, I can hear a crackle in the speakers. Popping sound and speakers go off and on rapidly. The kicker is this.
I turned the sub off and tried to fade to the front to hear things better and the volume dropped slightly, but the rears were still on as well.
Any idea's? Bad RCA cable to the amp that runs the rears?
Also, the rear speaker amp is a 4 channel with the two front outputs blown and the rears running off the rear outputs that are also bridgeable. Could something be back feeding to the HU from this amp?

Kind of confused on what you're saying about the amp. Two of the channels in the amplifier are blown, as in don't work, but you're using the other two channels to run the rear speakers? Is this correct?

The first thing I'd look for is no metal to metal contact at the connections of the RCA cables. They could be touching each other, a speaker wire or possibly ground out on the chassis. If they're ok, trace the RCA cables and make sure they didn't get pinched somewhere. It doesn't even have to go through the insulation to cause a problem.

Same thing with the speaker wires. Make sure they didn't get pinched anywhere.

Correct on the amp.
I have 3 sets of rca'srunning to the trunk and have tried them all on the amp. No difference. Tried with no signal to the amp and still get the noise from the speakers on the head unit. No pinched wires anywhere.
I'm starting to think my head unit is taking a dump.
I'm going to play with it some more as I get time and as it decides to act up.
Only thing left to try is disconnecting one speaker at a time from the head unit and see if it's one of them causing grief. I cant get any better ground but can try power straight from the battery. If none of those work, then I swap in an old head unit. If that fails, I guess it's a complete tear out and bench test.:mad:

I think I have it narrowed down to the sub. I started disconnecting speakers and amps today as the system acted up. I believe it's down to the sub set up. Disco'd the rca's from the rear of the HU and the popping went away. Not the first time I've been fooled by this problem, but 3 hours running time, and no popping. It's grounded with another amp that isnt acting up, so I'm guessing it's the rca cable.
We'll see when I get to run another temp rca. Fingers crossed.

Finally got it sorted out. It was the grounds on the rca's coming off the headunit. Guess it got banged around too much going from one vehicle to another for a few years. Love the unit so I fixed it and have nice clean sound now.
Thanks for all your help folks.