looking at 70 big block car tommorow. the car has no motor. need help IDing it as a real big block car. it has a 12bolt,4spd and fact rear sway bar,but is not an ss or Z28. i was told the box/heater core is different on the firewall because of clearance. is this correct? thanks in advance...

As far as I know on 70+ BB cars didn't get a different heater core box. Also the only way to get a BB was to order the SS option. Look for F41 suspension, Z27 on cowl tag on Norwood cars, Gear ratio on 12 bolt. I don't believe the BB cars could get 3.08 gears. They would have 3:31, 3.55, 3.73, 4.10. Anything else anyone.

Correct. The blacked out tail panel could mean 0 of course. A 5500 tack for L34 cars red line. A big hole in the radiator support like a Z28. I agree the box is the same. Thats all I can think of right now. I hope you get one, Mike
http;//picturetrail.com/michaeljoslynew
To see copy of my cowl tag without Z27

[This message has been edited by Michael Joslyn (edited April 15, 2002).]

Larry,

Not 100% sure but I think the BB Camaro's had a smaller Power Booster? This sound right?

Bob R

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1973 Z28 Original Owner 6 Year Frame Off Restoration
1971 RS Z28 Frame Off Restoration in Progress
http://www.geocities.com/bobr73z28

Since it does not have an engine check the engine frame brackets, the BB(70-71) and Z28(70-71) used different brackets then other engines, these brackets are stamped 3964886(right),3982307(left).




[This message has been edited by LT1M22 (edited April 15, 2002).]

I would think the only true way to tell if it was originally a BB is the trim tag with L34 or L78. Norwood built would be the only one that had this so if it's Van Nuys built (has L in VIN) the only way to tell is the build sheet - it's not on the trim tag. I would think anything else like mounting brackets, blacked out rear, etc could have been added. Maybe lower gas tank slightly for build sheet if you can.

I have a 70 RS/SS 396 Van Nuys built and it's listed on the build sheet. The rear was blackened for 396 only though.

heres the car: fact 12 bolt,and rear sway bar,but has 4,not 5 leaf rear springs. tall spoiler. orig stick shift,console delete. has rs front clip with small radiator cuttout in rad support. fenders have rs/350 emblems,but no ss emblems. vin says V8/LA built car. confused as i am?

[This message has been edited by camaronutz (edited April 16, 2002).]

That 26 inch radiator hole is a must have for a 396 car.Did it have a tack? I have packed mine up but I thought the 5500 red line was unique to L34 cars and a 6000 red line to L78 cars. Both tacks ending at 7000. Also Look under a little of the weather stripping around the trunk. I believe the factory black paint went up following the seams till the trunk opening. Hope this helps, I keep on asking for a player to step up and help me understand the "real" deal on these 396 cars, what gives?

Michael is exactly right about the black rear panel, it does go up to the trunk weatherstrip, and it does cut in towards the center, following the seam. This minor detail could be overlooked by someone trying to clone a big block, but it also could be overlooked by a big block with a re-paint job that didn't spend much time checking.

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Original 71 SS 396(402)
TH400 3.42 posi 10 bolt
14 inch Rally Wheels
Added HEI, Edelbrock 1411, mild cam
http://www.geocities.com/kevinmckeown1/camarofirebird.htm

Well, there is no telling if you went and looked at the car but, the last thing I would tell you is for some reason a lot if not all of these cars ran a stock 14" rim with hubcaps. Normally the racer pulls these rims for something larger. I have seen this many times but what I have also seen is that Joe racer often didn't realize a 15 inch rim would fit since the car didn't come with them. If it has 14s your getting closer.

For those that dont already know, I own (one of the very few ??) a 1970 L-78 Survivor. I feel that I'm fairly knowledgeable about the cars, but I just dont everything memorized, etc. 1) The Tach has a 6500 Redline 7000 Max (Z-28 has 6500/8000max) 2) Black Tailpan Paint Line when deck lid is open doesnt necessarily follow the qtr panel/rear tail seam DEAD on......The taping was done freehand and on my car one side is on seam and the other is a litle off seam but parellel with it.......Maybe someday DINO will babysit on how to post pics.....3) The Stock 14x7 BASE(no option charge) body colored wheels and BOWTIE baby moons were ONLY used on 70/71 Camaro and Nova SS's and were coded CL.(I NEED THESE....pay you $$$)
Many cars were optioned ($$$) otherwise with 14x7 Rally Wheels or Wheel Covers.......I still need to check out Bob R's brake booster comment. Its still my opinion that ALL 1970 L-78's were 4 speeds and the standard diff gear ratio was 3:55 (but my own car came with 4:10) .......Only my guess but think L-34 70 would have come with....???? 4 speed 3:31 and Turbo 400 something higher???......Thanks, Chuck

Chuck, I didn't know the L78 redlined so high. Would love to see some pictures of your car. I have never seen a L78 except in books. Did all L78s run a M22?

michael, my L78 has an m20 factory. also has the std 3.55 rear gears. M21,M22 were options at additional cost. tach went so high because it is a solid lifter motor.
chuck, those "CL" wheels also came on base camaros that year with baby moon hub caps.

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1970 Z-28,1970 ss 350 SURVIVOR ,1970 SS396 L78,1972 SS396

Finally a reply to a question that deals with ME trying to gather information on these 396/402 cars. I was just getting ready to again, post a request for any/all info, especially photos, of a CORRECT L34 car. I feel confident that I know most of what I need to to do this car right but would still be very interested in some details. Color of clips on fuel line, brake line. Good shot of bends in fuel line up to carb. Hose placement, markings, etc. What is what paint wise. Goofy stuff like were the pulleys semi gloss or glossy, what carried factory orange overspray, just the manifolds or more? Basically a lot of this stuff went outside the '70 year. Did Camaros get a painted bottom or was it just overspray. Most of my questions revolve around paint it would seem and what gets plated what. I had been told Donahue's book (sp) was a good one but it is out of print and I can't seem to find one. So, tell your friends to e-mail me. In my humble opinion, this is atleast as important as those trim rings that are burning it up. ( I know the topic is actually more about the definition of restoration )

Thunder (aka Mike S) Just looking in Alan Colvins 1970-75 book and he says (so it must be correct....I know, I know) that the "1970 Camaro RPO except SS and Z-28 had a 14xSIX AM coded wheel whereas the 70 and 71 SS had the 14x7 CL wheel unless of course you optioned the rally Wheel or Wheel Covers, which would have still gone on the CL wheel without the baby moon......whatda think!!!!
Mike, I dont plan on coming to the SuperCar ReUnion this year so where will I see you again......Chuck

Chuck, the reason i said what i did, was because i bought a 70' base 307 parts car a few years back, and it had the"CL" 14x7 wheels on it that where painted body color.???? who knows??? i would like to hit a few all camaro shows this year, because i recently finished my 72' LS3 car. not sure where i'm going yet though.
michael. depending on where your 70-73 camaro was built,example... my norwood cars all had the bottoms red oxide finished, because the whole car was dipped in red oxide. my LA cars are black on the bottom. there are several minor differances between cars built in these two plants. most all pullies i have seen are either painted semi flat black and or grey phosphated. fuel lines can be purchased new, from "the right stuff" company or "fine lines". there are as many opinions of what is "correct" as there are cars and people who restore them. however there are certain things most of us know to be factual,eg. floor mounted gas pedal for 70-71 Z28. there is a lot of good info on this site that most are very willing to share.

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1970 Z-28,1970 ss 350 SURVIVOR ,1970 SS396 L78,1972 SS396

THNDER, A couple of new questions since you have already graciously answered my earlier queries. Am I to assume all solid lifter engines redlined at 6500. Granted the L78 is a powerfull beast but I thought it was up at 6000? Clips under the car that secure fuel and brake. Can I assume that the colors are the same '70 to '71 since I have a fine set from a '71. My LA Z28 looks like it's bottom was never painted except by overspray. Did it all wear off or did some not get paint. I have never seen grey phos. on a pulley.Were these on any models imparticular. Lastly, since Chuck seems to have great respect for your cars, and while I don't know Chuck from what he has written he seems like a very knowledgable man with regard to these cars. So,put the two together and I will assume again that you are ultra picky about your cars. So to make a long story short, what do you think of the 396 repo of the fan shroud in Classic?
Thank you, Mike

MIKE, Here is how my L78 tach reads. yellow starts at 5700. red line at 6500. 7000 total.My 70 Z28 red lines at 6500, 8000 total.fuel and brkline clips on my 70 Z28 are silver. i have seen smog pump pullies finished in grey phosphate. And lastly, my 72' has a repop fan shroud, because thats all i have been able to find up to this point. still looking though. my L78 car is in need of total rest, so the floor pan is in original condition. i may have misled you a little. the color i can best say it is is a very dark grey to black color primer. hope this helps. mike.

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1970 Z-28,1970 ss 350 SURVIVOR ,1970 SS396 L78,1972 SS396

Mike, my L-34 (LA built SS/RS TH400 3:31 12 bolt) has rubberized coating basically above the trans that is black, the rest is semi-flat black (or some sort of shade of black) - body color is Muslane Blue. Not sure about wheels (original was not there when bought). Build sheet says Tire Description - F70X14 7B-2S2-BB-LTR (2S2 may be 2E2) AND another box labled Tires L8DS 5. It's LA built and an SS/RS. Rear tail panel is black. Tach redlines at 5500 - max 7000. If you find out about paint color let me know.

Chuck, do you have pics of yours or where to get original info?

Mark

Mike, the clips from the '71 are blue and I think yellow. Is it your opinion that all '70 cars had silver clips or only cars with 3/8 fuel line? If this was the case yor 396 as well as Marks would have silver clips( jump in at any time please Mark ) By the way Mark, your car is very similar to mine only mine is a NOR car. Have you ever recorded any 1/4 mile times? Also Mike, you are comfortable with the shroud or just keeping it untill....? Mark, is your car done? Any pictures available that might help me? Both of you guys have been very helpful, Thank you. Lastly, I have been cursed not only with no 396 shroud but also with the V03 option. Does anybody know where I can find some great old bumpers with the strips or the stripping NOS? Drop me a line, Mike

Mike below is an old shot of my L-34 motor. While my car is not a survivor like Chuck's L-78, I've tried to keep everything like I found it. My car is a LA car with a Semi-gloss black bottom and the rubberized coating like BandOfGypsys talked about. The fan shroud on my car is a repop that I got from Moementum Camaro and it looks just like my cracked original shroud....w/o the crack. http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/smile.gif If I remimber right the brake line clips on my car are blue and the fuel clips are green........but don't hold me to that. I promissed Chuck some detail shots of my motor, I will also send them to you if you want. Hope this helped a little.


http://www.chevy-depot.com/gallery/images/ward70rsss_3.jpg

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SScott Ward
1970 RS/SS 396
31,100 Original Miles

I just got mine a few months ago. It's been sitting for 10 years or so and am in the process of restoring it. Did not come with the original engine unfortunately just an older 396. Know anyone selling a 70 L-34? Believe the suffix code is CJI.
I'll have to check the clips and lines this weekend.
Looks great Scott! My firewall is flat black or some shade. What's a good paint (and correct shade) to use, Eastwood?

Mark, Thanks for the info and Scott your car looks tremendous, great job. Mark, Pat Elam has a complete "70 402 30 over I believe. I don't remember the code but he was going to put it with a 4 speed. I am not sure that he wants to part with it since he has a lot invested and who wouldn't want to keep a L34 around? If you are looking to spend some coin I could send him a message if you don't already know him. Mike

New member here. Spicewood1 introduced me to site. I have an original early production 1970 SS/L34. The trim tag has L34 on the third line. Also recently at a car show I ran across another L34 Norwood car. It also had the same 3rd line ID as mine. As far as only things on the car, it has factory F41 suspension and 3.31 12 bolt. Hopes this helps.

New member, Eddie? Do you have any photos of your engine? Thanks. How early was your car, what month? Mike

I don't who Pat is Micheal. If you could ask him if he would like to sell it then that would be great. Did yours come with the original engine? If I didn't find the build sheets in my car I guess there would have been no way to tell for sure it is a L-34 RS/SS.

Nice to see there are a few L-34/78's still alive.

B.o.g, I do have the original engine. i got lucky and found it in the machine shop the guy I bought the basket case from was storing parts. I checked it over and found the VIN in the rough casting by the oil filter, that was a great moment. Lord only knows what else was there, maybe my shroud but this shop was in a rough part of St. louis so I didn't want to start pushing my luck. I am still waiting to restore the car as I collect parts. Unfortunately the body was to far gone with almost all structural metal gone so it will have to be a borrowed body restoration. Believe me I agonized and spent large amounts of cash to try and salvage the shell but it wasn't to be. Since the car has no build sheet and I never saw the POP the car wouldn't have ever really held up as a marketable L34 anyway. But, all that aside, how could you throw a car like that away? Build them for yourself I say but never lie about what you got if you decide to sell. As for Pat I'll see whats up. I have seen the motor, It's nice and I believe coded correct. Later, Mike

MJ, checked my break line clips and they are silver. Forgot about the fuel line though.

scott. how bout a pic of the rest of the car? looks nice

I'd like some pics too if possible, but mine is a 71 LS3. Any detailed pics will help, even L34 and L78.
Hey Larry, give me a call.

Mike

camaronutz/j44mph there are a couple of nice shots of my car on the Moementum Camaro page. (http://www.chevy-depot.com/gallery/index1.shtml) At this time I don't have a web site to post my photos but that soon to change. You can also check it out in the member section (70rsss) of houston-f-body.org page. (http://www.houston-f-body.org/members/member_detail.php?ID=173)


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SScott Ward
1970 RS/SS 396
31,100 Original Miles

Looking for a 1970 L-34 Aircleaner Base (or complete) as pictured on page TWO(2) of this subject........Not certain but with the angle of vent tube facing heater box I've been saying/thinking this is one year only....I want this for my L-78 Car when not displaying with "Valuable" Dual Snorkel enclosed element air cleaner.....Thanks, Chuck

Chuck, do you have a part number for the base? Have you checked to see if there were any other applications, i.e. 1970 LS-5 Corvette, Chevelle, etc.

1970 Camaro Assy Manual...UPC L-34/A7 shows Air Cleaner as part # 6485239.......I have no idea how to cross ref with any other possible G.M. application....it appears that rubber 90 degree hose and metal valve cover elbow is same as L-78 (same as L-34).....Chuck

Michael Joslyn and others.....regarding the repro BB fan shroud, I have NEVER closely seen one, but have only heard negative comments about its appearance.....any more comments here????......I feel that finding a quality ORIGINAL BB fan shroud is one of the most difficult 70-72 Camaro parts you can search for......My own L-78 has a very good but not perfect one and I hope to improve that situation over time....Chuck/Seattle

Chuck, my 1972 Corvette parts book shows part #6485239 as being the air cleaner assembly used in 1971 w/Sp.H/Per.(454), a.k.a. LS-6. I would have thought it unlikely that it would be reproduced as there were only 188 1971 LS-6s made, but to my surprise Paragon appears to have a listing for the base. They also list several other applications for the same part including 1970 454/LS-5 and 1968-69 427/L-36 but the GM parts book shows different numbers for those applications. It is difficult to determine the position of the tube from the picture in the Paragon catalog. I'll be up in Wisconsin this weekend for an NCRS meet and I'll look into it more with the shark cars.

Chuck, while I was at Madison there was a 1970 454/390 there. I got to check and photograph the underside configuration of the air cleaner base. Unfortunately my good 35mm flash unit encountered some problems and I had to use a backup so I don't know how well the photo will turnout. As soon as it gets developed I'll send a scan. The tube seemed to be angeled more in the direction of #8 cylinder versus the firewall area between the distributor and the A/C evaporator that Scott's photo on page 2 appears to show. The original part number for all 68-72 big-block Corvette crankcase to air cleaner hose is 3916380. Is this the same part number for '70 L-34? Both engines used the same configured Rochester and intake manifold casting so if the hose is the same I would think the air cleaner base should be the same. I'm sure GM wanted to use as many applications for a specific part as possible to cut down on costs. As far as the quality of the reproduction part goes, I'll have to do more checking.