I'm looking to restore a 72 which has a cowl tag showing accesssory code Z27 - which would be an SS. The car also has a split bumper - would that make it an RS/SS?

OIC,

Yes, SS/RS combinations were possible. However, a "split bumper" in and of itself does not "prove" that your car left the factory as a Rally Sport. It has become popular to install bumperettes (split bumpers) on non-RS cars also.

Where are your front turn signal lights? If they are round in shape and located up high next to your headlights then chances are you have a Rally Sport. If they are below the bumper and more rectangular in shape then you have a non-RS that someone just put split bumpers on in place of the full length bumpers. Besides the differecne in shape and location of the turn signal lights, true RS cars also had the style trim group RPO Z-21 (bright moldings, slightly different tailamps, and color matched door handles), and hidden wipers. There is some other small stuff I may have left out, but hopefully you get the idea.

The dark red car on top of this page shows what a "real" Rally Sport front end looks like.

[This message has been edited by MikeM79 (edited 01-21-2000).]

Thanks Mike,

It has a much smaller bump of a rear spoiler than the one above - but other that, it's about the same. The VIN 1Q87K2N111504 seems correct!?

I know restoring these cars is supposed to be a labor of love - but.. it needs a complete interior a good bit of body work/paint and who knows what mechanically (it has an auto but came w/stick) and... will this car hold a pretty good resale value?

I've just about decided to go ahead and buy it - the price is $3250 - any comments?

Dont look at it as an investment, look at it as "do i want this car"? if you do then buy it, you'll probably never get your money back. Just buy what you are happy with and dont worry about what its investment value is.


------------------
Will
78 LT with 350SB, TH350, posi, still in the works but, fassstttttt

ok it's in my driveway.. and it looks GOOD!!

OIC,

Congrats on the purchase!! Welcome to the wonderful world of 2gen Camaros!!

If you are going for a "correct" resto, you will need to swap the rear spoiler for the three piece taller version you see above. The shorter one piece type was available from the factory only in 1970 and 71. Personally, I am not originality obsessed, but in case you are I thought you would want to know.

Also, 1972 was a limited production year due to a 117 day UAW strike. Only 68,651 copies were made. When the strike ended Chevy had to scrap 1,100 cars that were stuck on the production line when the strike started because they would not comply with new 1973 bumper and emissions rules. Imagine what the parts from those 1,100 cars are worth today! Chevy should have called MadMike, he would of come to get them and found a way to stuff them all into his two car garage!! BTW, source for this trivia is the White Book.

Re: the vin. The "K" means 350 ci engine, SS model (further proof!). The "N" means Norwood, Ohio manuf plant. The "2" means 1972, so I would say you look like you are in good shape.

[This message has been edited by MikeM79 (edited 01-22-2000).]

I gess I'm confused,a vin# 1Q87k2 would break out as a 72 350-200. If the engine code was L it would be 350-255. Could a SS come with a 200hp or would it have 255hp??

Still confused, how does vin# 1Q87L2 break out???

[This message has been edited by gofish (edited 01-22-2000).]

I own a real 1972 RS/SS, the K does indicate the 350, whereas I believe a U would indicate a 402, the 255hp was for the Z28, first, most of these cars DID NOT come with a rear spoiler, in fact all "real" verifiable 1972 (RS/SS) cars I've seen did not have one at all. (I added one to mine and it was an option) The tall spoiler is the techically correct spoiler but someone added the low one for its looks... The car should have the Z21 brightwork around the doors, tailights etc... The wheels should have been 14" (something I also changed), the wipers are the hidden, black ones, and yes the inside of the door handle should be body color. These are rare cars and with that VIN you've got at least a '72 SS (RS is not verifiable but few people "fake" it completely) It'll take some money and TIME to get this car done but at least you'll have bragging rights that it was one of the few '72 SS cars to be built...no that really doesn't translate into more $$ as far as I've seen, unless it is numbers matching, which is rare in a 28 year old car...

Thanks for all the feedback.. just got done checking out the diff and I was disappointed to find it wasn't a posi - has CLG2571 stamped on the housing.. now why do people get an SS option without a posi??

Also the engine turns out to be a 80-84 305.. puke.

Well I really bought the car for the lines and outwardly I want to maintain an original appearence.. except for that spoiler ( is it true that many SS models came without? I would prefer the bare lines..) A true restoration would seem to be quite an effort and expense.. and I wouldn't be happy without a posi!

So thats my next question - how to best convert to posi - do I swap the whole rear or can I install a new or used posi unit?

..and that brings up another question, the car now has an auto, originaly it came with a 4 speed.. would like to convert back but.. maybe a 5-speed?

OIC,

Three routes that I know of for a five speed:

- snatch one from a third gen car. Bad idea though if you plan on making any decent horsepower. These trannies are weak.

- Doug Nash tranny. Fifth gear in these is not overdrive, it is 1:1, same as a regular 4 speed. The extra gear is the first gear which is a high numerically which means you can run a low numeric rear, like a 2.41 for example. This is good if you already have a low numeric gear out back.

- Tremec. F*rd installed these in their Cobra-R cars. Despite that, they are nice trannies. Fifth is .67 overdrive. Look in the back of any of the Chevy mags for an ad from Forte's Parts. Call and speak to Mike Forte, he sets these trannies up with Chevy input shaft, taps holes for Chevy tranny mounts etc. I have one of these in my ride. Nice box.

Re: posi. A good way to go is to look around for a used posi rear out of a 2gen car. I have seen some for sale in the past on the swap meet section. This would be a good time to figure out what ratio gears yu want to use out back also.

[This message has been edited by MikeM79 (edited 01-22-2000).]

Just to help confuse matters regarding as to a genuine '72 RS/SS ever having a 'factory'rear spoiler: mine does, verified by the build sheet. It also a front valance spoiler, which I believe was now part of RPO D80.

My car also has an open rear end, so you're not alone. The good news is that the SS got a 3.42 ratio with the 4 speed.

As 72Heaven said, the '72 is a rare car (last year for SS), so it's worth the effort and money it will cost. OTHER people in your family may not quite understand that but WE sure do...

------------------
'72 RS/SS 350 4sp

Yes, posi was an option even on the Z28, most people forget that the SS was mainly just a trim package, it was given a 4bbl for greater perfomance, but it was more about looks than performance. a rear sway bar was optional, also. Mine was outfitted with 350/4speed, posi rear, but did not have a gauge package (yep, U14 was an option) only idiot lights, and no rear spoiler. Also came with a vinyl roof (now missing http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/smile.gif ). It's from a time when you really could order a car exactly how you wanted it (not the way I would have ordered it but oh well). On the five speed, it'll take some time and a ton of $$$, to convert it, you might look at the faq about putting in a six-speed, which is what will eventually grace my Z28, the 1972 SS is getting an M21 back.

Hey thanks for all the great info! I'm starting with the diff.. found an auburn posi unit and will stick with the 3.42 gears..

If I do stick a Muncie back in - what's best to go with - M21 or M22 and anyone recommend a source?

No build sheet to be found but it looks like I have a RS/SS.. no spoiler, posi or rear sway bar but has idiot lights - never would have believed they'd build a car like that.

If it's an SS, it should have sway bars.

------------------
Original 71 SS 396(402)
TH400 3.42 posi 10 bolt
14 inch Rally Wheels
Added HEI, mild cam

No sway bar.. and the diff (CLG2571) and all numbers seem ok..

and that brings up another question regarding the posi swap - I'm assuming above diff has 28 spline axles??

Thanks

Mine had the bar (well, someone removed it with a blue wrench, http://www.nastyz28.com/ubb/frown.gif but it did have one) but I've seen others, with build sheet that did not have a sway bar installed, It wasn't required for the SS option in '72, remember that alot of cars ended up half built and there were lots of labor difficulties in '71 and '72, so what was on the brochure and what ended up in Joe Consumer's hands were somewhat different. However I haven't ever seen a real '70 SS without a rear sway bar (of course I've seen far fewer '70s since I really like the '72 model year, see handle) Power Brakes were required though! On the tranny question, the M22 is a KILLER tranny they don't call them a ROCKCRUSHER for nothing, however they are expensive to buy... Your car probably came with an M20 or an M21, the M21 close ratio is basically the smallblock version of the M22, it has the same gear ratio as the M22 but not the straight cut gears. It is a weaker tranny but still very durable and a great street tranny. The M20 was the wide ratio box, It has a lower first gear and has the same final drive as the M21, and M22 1:1, the least expensive gearbox to buy mostly because of the "wide ratio" moniker Beware, almost everyone who is selling a Muncie transmission advertises it as the M22 Rockcrusher, usually it turns out to be an M20. Do some research, it'll save you alot of cash. I bought my M21 for a song because the guy couldn't tell an M20 and a M21 apart... Oh yeah, if you decide to go without the spoiler you'll get alot of flack about not having one...people just like these cars with them...Oh yeah check out MadMike's 1971 SS brochure, it shows a SS396 rear without the spoiler...

Just to add one thing to the trans info. If your set on an M-22, all M-22's do not have ID rings cut into the spline of the input shaft while M-21's have one ID ring and all M-20's, except for 1963-65, have 2 ID rings.
Also M-22's came with a drain plug and fill plug on the main case whereas unless they were modified, M-20's and M-21's only had a fill plug.
By the way,I have the M-20 with the 3:42 and a 402 engine, very reliable and it's a nice combo .

[This message has been edited by ChrisS (edited 01-23-2000).]

[This message has been edited by ChrisS (edited 01-23-2000).]

Well this topic has developed no shortage of input. A number of items have been left out, the vin# K engine was a 200 hp 4bbl most common as standard V8 in SS. There are 72 SS with L engine, 255 hp 4bbl. the cowel tag clearly shows Z27 and the vin # has a "L". The build sheet also list F41 sport suspension which was standard with SS $ Z28. This info is also confirmed in Chevrolet BY the Numbers, page 9 and camaro buyer's guide 3rd edition. I don't know if only one SB engine was avalible in SS but I do know a SS with a 255hp "L" engine was made. I hope this has some use, Thanks for the great forum

Hey thanks for all the great info.. I've got a line on a posi, next will be the Muncie and then the engine.. not sure what I'll do there..

But wish I had a garage, it's been pouring since Sat..

Gear Ratios ('66-74) see http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/1980/muncietxt.htm

You will shift sooner between 1-2-3 gears with the M20 than the M21,M22. M21,M22 are only good if you have 4.10 or lower gears or else you'll be reving from a stop to get the car moving. So with the 3.42 I would find a M20.

Email Tom Parsons, a reputable Muncie rebuilder who has Muncie 4-spds ready to buy.
Tom.Parsons@worldnet.att.net

My Muncie pics M20,M21,M22 http://www.geocities.com/MotorCity/Downs/1980/muncie.htm

The older M22 did not have a drain plug.
For Muncie id see http://www.gearzone.net/ and select rebuilt kits and go to CLICK HERE TO LEARN TO IDENTIFY MUNCIE 4 SPEEDS.


Mark



[This message has been edited by COPO (edited 01-25-2000).]

hey mike finally on board now! what can you make of this vin# 1Q87L2N163884....... it my 1972 ss with a 350 four speed...... strange thing though, i cant find any numbers on the engine anywhere?.......thanks.......john

[This message has been edited by john72ss (edited 01-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by john72ss (edited 01-26-2000).]

} 1Q87L2N163884

Whoops, isn't this a 1972 Z28? If that's the case, it can't be a SS.

With that out of the way, the engine probably doesn't have any visible numbers because the block has been decked. That machining operation flattens the surface of the deck and in the process wipes off whatever was stamped on the block. (this is a guess on my part).

Glad you got signed up ok....

just wondering why i have all the ss markings fender, grill, steering wheel, also belive i have the dash with extra gauges what number in the vin# says z 28? its not on the cowl tag!

The 5th letter "L", codes as a 255hp motor, found in the Z28 (only?). Since this is a Z only motor, the car must be a Z. Or so the theory goes.

As previously mentioned, someone (gofish) said there is a KNOWN "L" code which is an SS. And apparently you may have one too. So, either it's not as rare as one would think, or, the car is a Z28 and someone put SS badges all over it (easy), or "L" isn't just for Z28's.

I'll see what I can dig up, including looking at the references gofish entered. Since your car was built in Norwood, it should have either Z28 or Z27 on the cowl tag. My 72SS has Z27 on it. The engine code is K.

oops, my mistake! mike, i goofed the # is really 1Q87H2N163884........ 'H' not 'L' had the seats all redone and saw no biuld sheet there! do not that its got a 79 T10 borg warner 4-speed

hope this is not a repost! but did not see it... sorry mike, i had the wrong vin # it should read 1Q87 H 2N163884 with a 79 b,w, super T 10 trans... had the seats rebuilt and didnt see a biuld sheet... thanks... really getting a lot of info from this site!!! keep it coming.........john

Well, what a fine mess I have created!!! Lets define "known". I have a 72 SS, defined by cowl tag. It also has a clear "L" in the vin#, I'm the third owner, I have talked directly with the second owner, who appeared to be very open as to his part of the history. There is many items that are original, interior, sheet metal, under carrage, but the engine is not one of them, it currently has a LS-6 454, not a bad trade off! I have to admit this car is almost identical to my 73 RS/LT/Z28 (except the RS part) which I bought from the original owner, and looks almost identical (mechanicaly), in every way. I always said no person in there right mind would take a perfectly good Z28 and change it to a SS, including a cowl tag change out. I could have been taken by a person selling a converted Z28 as a SS, which if true I will gladly pay to change it back. I gess this is a good problem, trying to determine if it is a SS or a Z28, Life is GOOD !!!
The trans is a TH400??
I have read everything I could find on 72 SS/Z28 and nothing can confirm how a SS could have the letter "L" in the vin#. Some books don't even list "L" engine code, (white book) in 1972. other than deception is there any other way this combination was possible? I would like to clear-up this mess and look forward to all the feed back this BB can offer on the issue. Thanks to all who have helped to date.

[This message has been edited by gofish (edited 01-26-2000).]

[This message has been edited by gofish (edited 01-29-2000).]