i know thar the norwood plant specifically put the L78 on the trim tag but did the la plant ever put anything on the trim tags about the L78 or the L34

if not then how do you know that it is a real L78 car from the la plant. is the only way do find out if you dont have the build sheet is to match the engine codes with the vin? what do you do if the car doesnt have the original motor? im stumped?

I'm not sure about 70 Van Nuys cars but the 71 SS cars had nothing on the trim tag distinguishing it as an SS car. You need the build sheet to prove anything on Van Nuys cars. You can see from the pic below of my Van Nuys built 71 396 car that it doesn't have Z-27 or LS-3 on the trim tag but I have the build sheet and the car has it's born with drivetrain.


http://i1009.photobucket.com/albums/af219/tmackg71/Survivor%2071/P8100255.jpg

if not then how do you know that it is a real L78 car from the la plant. is the only way do find out if you dont have the build sheet is to match the engine codes with the vin? what do you do if the car doesnt have the original motor? im stumped?
I'm not sure it really matters at that point because the value is in having the original L-78 engine in the car, if it's gone the car isn't really worth anymore than any other 1970 396 clone imho.

I'm not sure it really matters at that point because the value is in having the original L-78 engine in the car, if it's gone the car isn't really worth anymore than any other 1970 396 clone imho.

Although I can not answer your trim tag question, I could not disagree more with the above referenced statement.

If you had a buildsheet that documents the car as an original L78 car without its original powertrain it is anything but a clone. If restored with a vintage "correct" powertrain it is worth far more than a clone. Not as much as an original powertrain L78, but far more than a clone. JMHO....

are you guys kidding me ??? it falls into that desireable "well , it used to be" class . or the elusive "date coded" class .

I'm not sure it really matters at that point because the value is in having the original L-78 engine in the car, if it's gone the car isn't really worth anymore than any other 1970 396 clone imho.

I hear this all the time. Perhaps you have a documented L78 car for sale with the wrong motor in it for the same price as a six cylinder car with a big block in it. I'll give you 3500 right now.---mike

I hear this all the time. Perhaps you have a documented L78 car for sale with the wrong motor in it for the same price as a six cylinder car with a big block in it. I'll give you 3500 right now.---mike
Maybe you hear this all the time because it's reality. I didn't say the car is worthless, any well done car will have some value in the market whether it's a clone or the real deal but there's a substantial difference in value between a car with the original drivetrain and one without it. I have a pretty substantial collection of cars so I have a pretty good idea of what the prices are in the market as I own everything from untouched survivors to totally custom ones. You make your money on these cars when you buy them not when you sell them, so if you over pay for a car simply because it's got L-78 on the trim tag that's your choice but I certainly wouldn't do it.

I hear this all the time. Perhaps you have a documented L78 car for sale with the wrong motor in it for the same price as a six cylinder car with a big block in it. I'll give you 3500 right now.---mike

It is a fact...here is a perfect example. I have a 1968 Superbee that is a legit J code Hemi car...with a service replacement block...its still worth twice an identical clone and 3 times an original 383 car...because its a legit (i.e.-from the factory) Hemi car. Those cars are easy to document as real because of the 5th digit in the VIN.

A real L78 car is a real L78 car...if you can document how it was built and rebuild it to original specs it still represents the pinnacle of muscle car production in its zentih year and is worth more than a clone...

Stated another way, take 2 identical 396/375 cars side by side, 1 your converted 6 cylinder and 1 with original L78 build sheet, and you are saying that both cars will bring the same dollar?

I'm not sure it really matters at that point because the value is in having the original L-78 engine in the car, if it's gone the car isn't really worth anymore than any other 1970 396 clone imho.

Not worth anymore?? Thats like saying a Yenko or a ZL1 isnt worth more then a clone if it doesnt have the born with engine. Half of them dont,but they still sell for well into 6 figures and the COPO/Yenko cars cant even be documented without their born with engine.

I would say that there are other ways to tell. The engine frame stands,the 12 bolt rear,the SS package would include heavier suspention. A th400 crossmember,3/8 fuel line ect. Like others have said,without a build sheet there isnt much to go on,but that never stopped the maniacs who buy and sell COPO 69 Camaros on a handshake promise that the car is legit.

Or just do like a lot of those guys do and restamp and engine ad make it legit.

Half of them dont,but they still sell for well into 6 figures and the COPO/Yenko cars cant even be documented without their born with engine.

Really? That is news to me and probably to those with COPO/Yenkos without there born with engines.

Rick H.

Without paperwork,thats the case. There is nothing in the VIN or trim tag that will tell you if a car came from the factory with a 427. The ZL-1 cars were recorded by GM,and the COPO cars that Yenko sold at his dealership were mostly documented,but non of the COPO cars ordered by Yenko and sold at other dealerships were ever recorded. 20 years ago the statistic was that there were only 200 Camaros made with a factory installed iron 427 engine,10 years ago the number was 1000 cars,today the number is 2000 and climbing. GM never kept records of these cars. Build sheets can be forged, engines are restamped,the internet has made it easier then ever to procure date code correct parts for rare cars. Pretty much all you need is a car with a V-8 VIN and the desire to own a rare car. At least with the Z/28 they had X codes for some of the eraly cars and the Z28 on the 2nd gens.

Like others have said,without a build sheet there isnt much to go on,but that never stopped the maniacs who buy and sell COPO 69Camaros on a handshake promise that the car is legit.

I agree completely, although the hand shake deals are a different case.

Plently of documented COPOs sell for huge money without their "born with" engine...exactly my point.

However, if you are buying one without documentation, but rather based upon indicators (i.e. heavy duty suspension, 3/8 fuel line, etc...) you should not pay nearly the same money.

The same applies to an L78 car.

Is an L78 car without the numbers matching engine , but with a build sheet ( Or GM of Canada docs ) still a documented L78 car ? I would say it is worth significantly more than a non documented L78 car , Thats like saying a non numbers matching Z/28 is not worth anymore than a clone . what if there is no docs other than previous owners testimonials that you can trace back to when the car is new ? Iam sure there is the odd L78 car out there that might have left the factory with a CE engine , if there was problems with noise or leakage at final assy . . just my " uneducated " opinion

Is an L78 car without the numbers matching engine , but with a build sheet ( Or GM of Canada docs ) still a documented L78 car ? I would say it is worth significantly more than a non documented L78 car , Thats like saying a non numbers matching Z/28 is not worth anymore than a clone .

Agreed. That is exactly what I and others have been saying...

what if there is no docs other than previous owners testimonials that you can trace back to when the car is new ?

Thats a tough one...if I came across an L78 car that had all the indicators and then tracked down the original owner who confirmd it was an L78 car off the showroom floor I would meticously document every fact in a notorized affidavit...

That is exactly what I did with my Norwood built Z28 "Company Car" and I have the notorized affidavit from the owner who drove it off the lot that it was striped and had Z28 emblems on it...that car does have paper documentation and it original powertrain as well to support it...

But back to your L78 car, if you had the indicators, no origianl motor or buildsheet but the original owners affidavit it would still be greeted with some skeptizism but should have a value more than a clone but less than the L78 car, no origianl motor that has a build sheet.

Iam sure there is the odd L78 car out there that might have left the factory with a CE engine , if there was problems with noise or leakage at final assy . . just my " uneducated " opinion

Yet another issue completely...factory anamolies exist...everyone know that... but documenting them is difficult...it would depend on your proofs...

Okay, just so I understand... You have nothing on the trim tag, no matching numbers on the motor or trans, and no documentation from the very first owner (probably doesn't really mean a lot without pics anyway). But, what you do have is a beefed up front suspension and some larger fuel lines. Sounds like to me you have either an expensive clone or cheap L78 car. Either way I think if it is done right you could pull more than most clones but never come close to the value of a true proven L78. The only way to really have anything that may work with other buyers is have the car certified and appraised.There is a 70 L78 on ebay right now certified by Jerry MacNeish.

There is a 70 L78 on ebay right now certified by Jerry MacNeish.

Yes, that Rich's car and a very special one...

All I have been saying is that an L78 car that is documented but no longer has its "born with" powertrain is worth more than a 6 cylinder with a 502 stuffed in it...to the right person, of course, as some one might prefer the 502clone that they can thrash...

But for the numbers crunching, OCD types like myself...the L78 is worth far more...

If the EBAY L-78 Camaro had been certified by Jack Seymour or Mike Steitz would it be worth less ???????? Hmmmmmmmm !!!!!!!!!

Yeah I know some people have earned the right to walk on water.