View Full Version : Epoxy Primer


71 Camaro
02-28-2011, 12:31:23 PM
What brands are you guys using? Buying it locally or online? Never sprayed any before so any tips would be appreciated. I'm guessing as soon as get a coat down you need to clean the gun ASAP? Does it come in "hotrod black?" Think might be rocking the murdered out rat rod look this summer.......

76_TypeLT
02-28-2011, 01:08:41 PM
I assume you mean flat black? I have used SPI which is what I'd consider semi-gloss. That is the only version of black epoxy primer they sell (pretty sure anyway). There are other good brands of epoxy primer that others can comment on.

But wouldn't you want the color coat to be flat black or are you talking about the firewall, frame, underside, etc?

Yes, you want to clean the gun ASAP using lacquer thinner.

71 Camaro
02-28-2011, 07:26:12 PM
semi-gloss would be ok, i'd just be happy to have it all one color. immediate goal is to get it drivable and have it not looking like total crap. Bottom of car is done, welding is done. Starting actual bodywork now and want to spray epoxy before bondo.

crystalbluevib
02-28-2011, 07:48:31 PM
Spi.

kawboy
02-28-2011, 08:38:29 PM
SPI.
Just an FYI theirs comes in black, gray and white.

71 Camaro
03-01-2011, 10:34:43 AM
Where you guys getting this SPI stuff?

crystalbluevib
03-01-2011, 10:53:47 AM
Southern Polyurethanes Inc. 404-307-9740 Tech Support..........................................706 781-2220 Corp Headquarters

71 Camaro
03-01-2011, 12:27:43 PM
What about NAPA (Martin Senour) PCC epoxy?

http://www.napaonline.com/Search/Detail.aspx?R=MSRGALPIP101_0000999999

Also what reducer/thinner is required?

earlysecond
03-01-2011, 01:24:56 PM
Just about impossible to beat SPI for quality and value. I also had great results with PPG EPX-900 from their commercial coatings line. It is priced right.

ChevyReb
03-01-2011, 04:27:21 PM
The Dupont Nason line epoxy is good too. If I do another car I'll try the SPI because it gets great reviews and sands easier than others. Although the only thin I sanded of epoxy was for runs.

71 Camaro
03-02-2011, 01:49:42 PM
thinner/reducer for epoxy?

you guys ordering SPI or buying locally? i'm too damn impatient to order stuff, when i want it i usually want it now.

why is SPI superior? i mean it's just primer, what is wrong with other brands?

ChevyReb
03-02-2011, 03:19:35 PM
Epoxy is a two part mix and the Dupont I use mixes 1:1 and does not need any thinner as its pretty thin to start with and runs through a 1.4 tipped gun quite well. I have a mobile SPI jobber that comes to my area every Tuesday. Or for Dupont stuff I can have delivered to my work any day as long as my order is in by 9am or so.

earlysecond
03-02-2011, 09:17:18 PM
Order via phone shows up via brown 2 days later. Shipped free if there is no jobber close. The product cost for 2 sprayable gallons just under $150
Finish is just glossy enough to see remaining flaw. Builds more than other epoxies and sands better than others. Only my opinion but hard to beat easy to spray. Not a spokesperson but when you have a question and call tech support you speak to the owner and the same who mixed the batch! Hope that is enough reason to try a quart

wookie
03-02-2011, 09:47:08 PM
I have shot it all over the years...SPI epoxy gets my vote because epoxy gets sprayed and that is it...No sanding needed, it's not a primer, just a sealer for bare metal that works. Add your favorite high-build over it and BAM! Block party! (Block sanding that is...)

Wookie rates it 5 stars for customer service, value, and ease of use. 1 to 1 mix, even a caveman can use it! (Or a Wookie!)

wookie
03-02-2011, 09:52:52 PM
Builds more than other epoxies and sands better than others.

Are you trying to use this epoxy as a primer to find imperfections? Epoxy is simply to seal bare steel and provide a base for high-build primer to block with. (Or topcoat if you go straight to topcoat.) You shouldn't need to sand epoxy unless you wait to coat it for whatever reason, and epoxy isn't designed to fill anything. Simply a coating to seal out moisture to prevent oxidation (corrosion) is all is is intended for..

earlysecond
03-02-2011, 11:10:03 PM
Mark agreed and my statement was unintentionally misleading. SPI builds enough that I have been able to "cheat" some deeper sanding scratches in filler instead of breaking out high build I sanded and resprayed epoxy before topcoating. Not saying that is right. I got the advice directly from the SPI forum. It worked well the couple of times I tried it. I found SPI later than most but like the products.

wookie
03-03-2011, 12:08:53 AM
From the SPI website "Perfect paint job"

It is not necessary to sand the epoxy before applying the fillers as they will bite into the epoxy and feather great. When you have finished sanding all of the bodywork you are likely to have some bare metal spots from sanding. Spray one wet coat of epoxy over all filler spots and over any bare metal spots.

I wouldn't want anyone getting bad information..;)

earlysecond
03-03-2011, 06:47:43 AM
Yeah, gotta watch out for the "bad info" monster.

I lay expoy down on bare, prepped metal before I use filler. It is a great barrier when the surface was pitted or welded. Extra protection from the dreaded oxidation, reduction reaction (rust)
I typically spray the whole panel at the same time and apply filler.
When I am working the filler with air tools, a long board, or blocks, the surrounding epoxy gets sanded as the repair comes in. THIS was the sanding I am referring to. If you use a hard to sand epoxy, in my experience, paper, especially 220 grit clogs and fouls quickly.

SPI epoxy will cover 80 or 100 grit scratches in two coats. Typically I finish with 220 on icing so it is rarely an issue. The product builds well enough that if your bodywork is good then you can escape the need for high build by applying 1 more wet coat (per the quote above).

I do not sand for entertainment, only results.

I think many posters gave many of the reasons that SPI gets the nod. I hope that the OP with have the patience to order it and try it.

71 Camaro
03-03-2011, 02:57:06 PM
honestly guys, i would have never picked a rusty car like this for a project. i really don't see the point in it, but i got it and now i have to fix it. epoxy primer i don't even think existed last time i did any major body repairs, so that is why i be asking all these noobish questions.

low mile car has sat for 27 years. i now have it running and the body rot all cut out and replaced. so have a lot of surface rust as well as considerable bare metal.

so the question is now what? i'm going to try both naval jelly and also rustmort and decide which seems to work better. after reading what you guys have done it seems the smartest idea is to use epoxy primer although i'm tempted to say fuggit and just use normal primer. it will all be covered up later with sandable primer, filler, etc.

i tell you what though at $50/gal the stuff from NAPA sure seems like the way to go. i just don't see myself doing any sanding at all to the epoxy. it is just the first coat right? only thing i care about is getting it to stick.

ChevyReb
03-03-2011, 03:32:36 PM
The epoxy seals the bare metal to keep moisture and oxygen from being able to form rust under the primer. Regular primer does NOT do that!!! I think etch primer will but wait for others who know about that. You can also use filler over epoxy to get your low spots filled in and then use a build primer to cover sand scrathes and other less noticible low spots. Then you block and reapply build primer until that guide coat is removed evenly and then your panel will be flat and ready to paint. I would media blast the surface rust that will not sand off with paper or wire wheel etc, ie. in pitted areas, or creases and such.

IMO If you're going to fix it and are not going to do it right then you might as well just roll on some john deer tractor paint LOL. The epoxy primer should be the solid foundation for a paint job. If you are doing it on the cheep and plan on doing it over in a few years I guess you could skip it. Some people use slicksand high build direct to metal primer as a base. but not all primers will adhere to bare metal. I hope this gives you some insight to go on. You can get great info from knowledgeable folks in here and also you may want to browse the project section on this site and also visit autobody101.com

Good Luck with your project

olstyle
03-15-2011, 04:09:02 PM
Looks like we are having a hard time getting Matrix paint supplies like I used on my car. So for the bus, I thin we are gonna try the SPI epoxy primer and 2K high build primer. Hopefully I can find somewhere local to buy it.

PaulyNY
03-15-2011, 05:26:11 PM
I've sprayed and like the Summit epoxy stuff lays down real nice

71 Camaro
03-18-2011, 01:26:53 PM
I can see why you guys like SPI, it sound ez to use. Filling light scratches is a definite plus, but I've been bitten like that before, I won't depend on paint to fill them anymore.

Other than reasons stated, is there any real advantage one epoxy has over another? Maybe this is over simplifying, but epoxy is glue and sticks like crazy, so would seem one would work as good as another once applied.

earlysecond
03-19-2011, 12:47:53 AM
71,

You could try a couple of different brands. It really depends on what your first considerations are. Instead of price I try to focus on value.

I have been pretty vocal and given my reasons. I have undertated how much I "abuse" SPI epoxy (recommendations provided on the manufactures website often by the owner). It seems to do more than other epoxies. The real reason to choose epoxy is because of all the benefits it provides.

Maybe if you get your hands on some you will become much more confident. SPI will see you quarts, it is a pain to pour off and ship or I would give you some to try.

I have used epoxy primers from Transtar, Omni, PPG Commerical coatings EPX 900 and SPI. All are were different. They had one thing in common, they bond well to bare metal without etching, they all seal out moisture and they all were decent choices. I have never sprayed and probably will not spend the money to spray "top line" epoxies from the majors.

Not sure exactly what you are hunting or if you have additional concerns.

71 Camaro
03-19-2011, 01:03:57 PM
Just trying to to get panels sealed while leaving a little money in my pocket. Of course sometimes there are really good reasons not to use a cheap product. For example if you buy cheap house paint, it has less pigment and you need more paint and additional coats. With the epoxy I'm still waiting for a reason to use expensive kind other than personal preference. Don't get me wrong I respect you guys who use the better stuff and just like expensive "bondo" I figure it is superior, but the cheaper stuff should yield the same results although a little more labor may be involved.

I tend to do things my own way and have learned that 95% of the people are wrong most of the time, so there is many times something to be gained by thinking outside the box. Many more people would rather just go with the flow then to actually weigh options and take a chance.

Whatever I end up doing I'll document and if anybody is betting against me, you prob will lose. I have a good track record of accomplishing tasks unconventionally. No glory in being a follower!

blackl78
03-20-2011, 12:31:45 AM
Hey earlysecond.... my buddy layed down transtar on my 67 camaro. Your saying this is a good product ....right? Im a little worried. I hope its good. I will have him use the SPI on my 70 after reading this, but to late for the 67.

n2hcky
03-28-2011, 10:59:08 PM
I used Kirker epoxy and was very pleased with it.
Good price, sprayed well and in some places I had to sand, it didn't clog and gum up the paper.
Made a great sealer just before base color too.

71 Camaro
03-29-2011, 02:35:46 PM
Where do you get Kirker? I found this link: http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/kirker-enduro-prime-epoxy-primer-gray-ep611-p-12620.aspx

but prefer to buy locally when possible.

n2hcky
03-31-2011, 05:45:53 PM
Where do you get Kirker? I found this link: http://www.autobodytoolmart.com/kirker-enduro-prime-epoxy-primer-gray-ep611-p-12620.aspx

but prefer to buy locally when possible.

I am not sure if they have local jobbers or not. Not in my area so I used...
http://smartshoppersinc.com/Kirker/primers.html

earlysecond
04-02-2011, 11:24:51 AM
Hey earlysecond.... my buddy layed down transtar on my 67 camaro. Your saying this is a good product ....right? Im a little worried. I hope its good. I will have him use the SPI on my 70 after reading this, but to late for the 67.


Transtar is just fine. Less viscous (not allowed to say thinner any more) flows out well. Of all of the epoxies I have used, this one seems to get the hardest. It is flat out not sandable.

dcart1
04-02-2011, 02:03:09 PM
I have summits own brand that I was going to use today, but its too cold, so maybe next weekend. I ordered several things from them 2 couple month ago when they had free shipping. Cannot recommend as this point, just using on firewall. Point is, mine say you can want up to 4 days without sanding to paint over it.

71 Camaro
04-02-2011, 10:52:13 PM
Interesting to hear experiences with other products. It is especially helpful to hear from guys who have used several. Too ez to say hey all I use is brand x, therefore it is the best.

BusDriver
04-04-2011, 02:22:00 PM
My limited advice is the SPI. It's easy to mix, sprays easy, and looks good.

It's very VERY tough, so if you are looking for a durable coating to sit under bodywork and protect the car as it's worked on, you're not gonna get much better.

Not many real epoxies out there that cost less, either.

Call them (number in thread earlier) and ask if there's a jobber in your area.

grzewnicki
04-05-2011, 08:32:40 AM
Just trying to to get panels sealed while leaving a little money in my pocket. Of course sometimes there are really good reasons not to use a cheap product. For example if you buy cheap house paint, it has less pigment and you need more paint and additional coats. With the epoxy I'm still waiting for a reason to use expensive kind other than personal preference. Don't get me wrong I respect you guys who use the better stuff and just like expensive "bondo" I figure it is superior, but the cheaper stuff should yield the same results although a little more labor may be involved.

I tend to do things my own way and have learned that 95% of the people are wrong most of the time, so there is many times something to be gained by thinking outside the box. Many more people would rather just go with the flow then to actually weigh options and take a chance.

Whatever I end up doing I'll document and if anybody is betting against me, you prob will lose. I have a good track record of accomplishing tasks unconventionally. No glory in being a follower!

There are times to save money and times to bite the bullet and spend a little bit more, really do you want to skimp on the first thing on top of bare metal? And 2 gallons of SPI for $150, wish I had known about it before is spent double that on half the amount of PPG. Free shipping in 2 days, man you don't even have to leave the house. As far as the SPI, seems the consensus is lays down great, easy to sand, covers some sanding scratches, (somewhere I read it also has some zinc phosphate in it so it also self etches)overall great product in most peoples view but then you go on to say 95% of people are wrong....so why even bothering asking for an opinion. Seems like you want to say what you want to use or do and then have someone come along and agree with you. I may be wrong but that is how your reply above sounds to me. Just had to get that off my chest.

71 Camaro
04-05-2011, 12:20:54 PM
I stand by my statement that 95% of people are wrong most of the time. If you doubt that just look at the idiots that get elected to office these days. Many just parrot what they've heard. Or strive to be PC, not accurate. I wasn't put on this earth to make everyone feel warm and fuzzy. I just try to be fair and honest, if that doesn't work for you, get over it.

btw, if SPI does contain zinc I think that makes it incompatible with some rust removing/stabilizing products. If so, that pretty much affirms my statement that most people are wrong about most things.

Not hear to pick fights, just looking to figure out what works and what doesn't and maybe come up with some new ideas.

ChevyReb
04-05-2011, 12:23:39 PM
Good points above...added my 2 cents worth as well.

Just trying to to get panels sealed while leaving a little money in my pocket. Of course sometimes there are really good reasons not to use a cheap product. For example if you buy cheap house paint, it has less pigment and you need more paint and additional coats. With the epoxy I'm still waiting for a reason to use expensive kind other than personal preference. Don't get me wrong I respect you guys who use the better stuff and just like expensive "bondo" I figure it is superior, but the cheaper stuff should yield the same results although a little more labor may be involved.

I tend to do things my own way and have learned that 95% of the people are wrong most of the time, so there is many times something to be gained by thinking outside the box. Many more people would rather just go with the flow then to actually weigh options and take a chance.

Whatever I end up doing I'll document and if anybody is betting against me, you prob will lose. I have a good track record of accomplishing tasks unconventionally. No glory in being a follower!

Not always true on cheaper paints needing less coats. I just got done using Dupont Chromabase and it does not cover as well as Matrix brand.

On the bondo yes it will stick and takes more effort and sand paper but will work.

I personally would never venture outside the box on an untested product that is going to be the foundation of my paint! That's just way beyond ridiculous.

There is no glory in paint pealing off of you car and having to re-do it.

If you're going to invent and test a new product and it works and holds up for years then there's glory in that. Otherwise why not follow and use tried and true products that are known to work well and hold up over time?

71 Camaro
04-13-2011, 03:13:42 PM
OK guys, you all pretty much sold me on SPI. Was just interesting to hear experiences of people who used competing products.

Now I'd like to add something here that really should have been addressed already. IF YOU USE SPI EPOXY PRIMER YOU CANNOT USE RUST CONVERTERS. THEY ARE NOT COMPATIBLE.

So if you gentleman will excuse me I have to go remove that stuff. Luckily I did not do a huge area and also thanks to the tech support at SPI for saving me from a major screwup. Now other than using SPI and perhaps other epoxy primers (not sure about this), rust converters are awesome products. Just never have used epoxy primer before and honestly am a little surprised they are not compatible. Converters are supposed to be compatible with primers and fillers and are in themselves a great primer for most all finishes, just apparently not epoxy.

Sorry to bump this old thread, but wanted to add this important bit of information since rust removal and epoxy primers are of interest to most all of us.

hoov81
04-13-2011, 08:20:55 PM
SPI is the way to go. Good luck

70-SS/RS-L78
04-14-2011, 10:03:43 PM
Order via phone shows up via brown 2 days later. Shipped free if there is no jobber close. The product cost for 2 sprayable gallons just under $150
Finish is just glossy enough to see remaining flaw. Builds more than other epoxies and sands better than others. Only my opinion but hard to beat easy to spray. Not a spokesperson but when you have a question and call tech support you speak to the owner and the same who mixed the batch! Hope that is enough reason to try a quart

Let me get this right, The owner does Tech Support-Phone Orders-Mixes the all of the products???? Hey I think the SPI line works great but if I am reading this right he wears a LOT of hats…. He also posts at HAMB where I am a member… Where does he find the time? I need to know his secret. LOL;)

kawboy
04-15-2011, 02:18:21 PM
Barry is a great guy and yes he does wear alot of hats.

earlysecond
04-16-2011, 09:09:20 AM
Mark,

I do not know Barry personally, I have spoken to him on severl occasions. He must have found the fountain of youth becase he is always available. Ususally Andy, his son takes orders and can answer questions.

Sounds cheesy but I honestly think that Barry Kives is DRIVEN by passion to create the best product, at the best price that yeilds the best results and he may sacrifice sleep to reach that goal.

In the past several year SPI has multiple Pebble Beach cars. If you have not tried their products you may consider them. There are only a few SPI jobbers of which I am because I live in the sticks. If there is not a jobber close to you, SPI will ship for free to your shop!

I recall that Barry has worked for at least one major. He knows his stuff and is a smat man who has grown his business thru knowledge and customer service. . . just like many successful business owners.

That is all I know but you can ask the man. He has spoken, on the phone, to answer all types of questions to 6 or more members on this board of which I am aware alone. He welcomes the opportunity to speak with shop owner AND hobbyists, a pretty rare combination. . . as a hobbyist I do not have a PPG rep and usually my paint rep is not quite so responsive-haha Check SPI out, what it is NOT is bath tub quality nor is it bottom end priced. Right in the middle with great performance so it is a great value.

70-SS/RS-L78
04-16-2011, 10:22:59 PM
Mark,

I do not know Barry personally, I have spoken to him on severl occasions. He must have found the fountain of youth becase he is always available. Ususally Andy, his son takes orders and can answer questions.

Sounds cheesy but I honestly think that Barry Kives is DRIVEN by passion to create the best product, at the best price that yeilds the best results and he may sacrifice sleep to reach that goal.

In the past several year SPI has multiple Pebble Beach cars. If you have not tried their products you may consider them. There are only a few SPI jobbers of which I am because I live in the sticks. If there is not a jobber close to you, SPI will ship for free to your shop!

I recall that Barry has worked for at least one major. He knows his stuff and is a smat man who has grown his business thru knowledge and customer service. . . just like many successful business owners.

That is all I know but you can ask the man. He has spoken, on the phone, to answer all types of questions to 6 or more members on this board of which I am aware alone. He welcomes the opportunity to speak with shop owner AND hobbyists, a pretty rare combination. . . as a hobbyist I do not have a PPG rep and usually my paint rep is not quite so responsive-haha Check SPI out, what it is NOT is bath tub quality nor is it bottom end priced. Right in the middle with great performance so it is a great value.

I agree Brent, Barry seems like a knowlegble heads up guy. I have used the clear and it was not bad, I have had it with PPG and I dont use the PPG epoxys, I have allways used Sikkens epoxys. I recently tried the Trans Star which worked fine. We are tossing the PPG Global system out of the collision shop next week. Enough is Enough.. Putting in a BASF water system. One of our techs wired tied a 1/4 nut to the paint reps drive shaft last week. What a howl..... He was pissed....

earlysecond
04-17-2011, 12:05:37 AM
Mark,
I am getting the idea that you no longer can hack PPG or your paint rep.-haha