so my motor is brand new and on the stand im running a pretty lopey hydraulic cam and i was wondering if i could adjust the lifters dry?

yes. But you're supposed to soak them in oil for a while before putting them in.

Yes you can adjust them dry. I do not pre pump lifters. If you adjust the lifters with the engine off, doing the EOIC method, the spring inside the lifter holds the cup all the way up anyway and having no oil in them will not affect your preload settings.

You just have to pay a little more attention. The internal spring in the lifter is the only thing keeping the plunger from moving down- it doesn't take much force to do that. So you just have to be more careful about finding the zero lash point from which you measure your pre-load.

i do all mine dry inside the lifters. i let the oil primer fill em' up, as damon mentioned. that way you're not actually opening up valves on the preload. oil pump will "fill em' up to the correct height" and it won't pop a bit on startup from valves hanging open that wouldn't bleed down. my 2 cents.
andy

At my job i adjusted 550 to 600 new dry 350 bases when i turned our left hands to right hand engines.

i do all mine dry inside the lifters. i let the oil primer fill em' up, as damon mentioned. that way you're not actually opening up valves on the preload. oil pump will "fill em' up to the correct height" and it won't pop a bit on startup from valves hanging open that wouldn't bleed down. my 2 cents.
andy


Same here ,worth more than 2 cents though ;) Atleast $3.50 if it was in a book :)

Always try to do mine before putting the intake on. Get the lifter on the cam base. Turn the nut down until the plunger just starts to move down, then the preload.

thanks for the help guys, so if i have the motor on the stand and adjust them to where there is sero lash between the rocker tip and the valve then how much should i go? i was planning to do this just so there wasnt a crazy stressfull mess when i go to break it in, ive heard people talk about the distance in the lifter plunger being something like .60 and correct adjustment is about half that?

Lifter preload is to some degree, manufacturer specific. That said, most lifters of the hyd conventional type are probably 20-40 thou preload, which ends up being about 1/2 turn on your stock studs. I am running Comp pro magnum hyd. lifters which are 0.002-0.004" preload (not even 1/8 turn) but that's an extreme example.

hmmm ok im using comp as well but not magnum they are the high energy hardened tip ones nothing special i think shall i try 1/2 turn after 0 lash?

yeah that will work, make sure you adjust Exhaust Opening Intake Closing method though, you can't just set them all without turning the engine over to get the cam lobes on the base circle for each one you set though. When an exhaust valve starts opening on a particular cylinder, you set the preload on the intake valve on that same cyl, and when an intake valve has nosed over peak lift and is most of the way back closed, adjust the exhaust valve preload on that corresponding cyl.

yup understood thanks alot! hopefully this wont make my break-in as stressfull

yeah that will work, make sure you adjust Exhaust Opening Intake Closing method though, you can't just set them all without turning the engine over to get the cam lobes on the base circle for each one you set though. When an exhaust valve starts opening on a particular cylinder, you set the preload on the intake valve on that same cyl, and when an intake valve has nosed over peak lift and is most of the way back closed, adjust the exhaust valve preload on that corresponding cyl.

I'm with you two things to add mark the rockers as you set them [magic marker , paint stick , crayon ] dosen't matter what it just makes it easier to keep track where you are as you go or when somebody interupts you [that never happens does it ] and also when you are done do a quick count of the visable threads , if you are using stamped steel rocker you can count the theads above the not , if it's rollers you can count the number inside the nut , they are usually all within about 1/2 a thread if one looks to be way different take the time to go back and redo it [it could be right ,but most likely it isn't and this way you will know for sure ]

yeah that will work, make sure you adjust Exhaust Opening Intake Closing method though, you can't just set them all without turning the engine over to get the cam lobes on the base circle for each one you set though. When an exhaust valve starts opening on a particular cylinder, you set the preload on the intake valve on that same cyl, and when an intake valve has nosed over peak lift and is most of the way back closed, adjust the exhaust valve preload on that corresponding cyl.
I'm with you two things to add mark the rockers as you set them [magic marker , paint stick , crayon ] dosen't matter what it just makes it easier to keep track where you are as you go or when somebody interupts you [that never happens does it ] and also when you are done do a quick count of the visable threads , if you are using stamped steel rocker you can count the theads above the not , if it's rollers you can count the number inside the nut , they are usually all within about 1/2 a thread if one looks to be way different take the time to go back and redo it [it could be right ,but most likely it isn't and this way you will know for sure ]
Thanks guys, I'm going to be doing mine pretty soon, so you helped me out too! :D

yeah thanks again logical helpfull advice is not something you find on alot of forums...sadly

Is it a good idea or is there anything to gain by letting them soak in oil or to pump them up before installing them? Lunati recommends that I soak my double roller timing chain in oil for a while before they get installed. Come to think of it, I haven't even opened the box my lifter came in. I should probably do that pretty soon LOL. :confused:

Is it a good idea or is there anything to gain by letting them soak in oil or to pump them up before installing them? Lunati recommends that I soak my double roller timing chain in oil for a while before they get installed. Come to think of it, I haven't even opened the box my lifter came in. I should probably do that pretty soon LOL. :confused:

i've experienced that if you soak them in oil,, sometimes here and there you may find that one or two lifters won't bleed back down from a light spring pressure with the thick cold oil. with preloading,, it can open that valve.

that can make it not seal the valve,, and can disturb manifold vacuum on first start up,, weather it's popping out the intake or out the exhaust,, while it is holding the excess spring force of the lifter on the lobe all the way arround it,, including while on the base circle,, till it bleeds down. not good on a fresh cam in my opinion.

i zero lash spinning the pushrod with the lobe on the base circle,, then preload. on break in for a hydraulic cam,, i only go zero lash plus a bump. just enough to get the lifter plunger down away form the snap ring/circlip. then i go back after the 30 minute run-in and adjust again. at least i know that they can't pump up past that point if i'm basically zero lashed.

it also can eliminate heat transfer problems through the valve stems to valve guides if one is hanging open slightly,, where it can aggrivate sticking a valve in the guide. the valve seat itself must seat and seal to the head to transfer the heat to the valve seat in the head,, otherwise,, it will swell the valve stem.

on a cold engine/head,, the stem will grow pretty widly if the valve seat itself can't seal to the head. that heat has to go somewhere from the valve head and if it can't seat and seal perfectly and is hanging open slightly,, it goes upward up the stem. heat it and it will expand!! lol. hope it helps.
andy

oh,, after the valves are adjusted,, i install the oil pump primer and spin it with an air drill till i see some oil from a few rockers. only a few will oil.
then i rotate the crank 1/4 turn. then spin some more. as you go this time,, some more different lifters will oil through the pushrods and rockers.
then 1/4 turn more. same as above till you rotate the crank 2 times.
gradually as you do the 1/4 turn and prime thing,, each lifter will make it to the base circle and take the pressure off the check ball in the lifter and allow it to oil. they only oil when down on the base circle.
it's important to go at least 2 turns of the crank so each lifter will make it to the base circle and oil through the pushrods and rockers.
hope it helps.
andy

so 74zrat what do you reccomend for preload? 1/2 turn after 0lash? something like that? ive got roller tip rockers and i machined in my arp rocker studs if that chanes anything

so 74zrat what do you reccomend for preload? 1/2 turn after 0lash? something like that? ive got roller tip rockers and i machined in my arp rocker studs if that chanes anything

basically i do zero lash and a bump for break in as mentioned above. then i only go down 1/8-1/4 max for perfomance use. that's just me. there's 100000000000000000000 different idea's on how folks "like it". that's just my way....... if one is still ticking slightly,, maybe try a little bit more at a time. the more you tighten them, the more they can pump up and take away piston to valve clearance......................

don't forget to include lifter pump up into your piston to valve equation. if you're running .040 lifter preload,, you have to multiply your preload of .040 times the rocker ratio of 1.5 = .060,, and add that .060 extra into your piston to valve clearance equation,, in case the lifters pump up solid to the top of the snap ring/circlip. most forget about that. it can bite you with a hydraulic if not checked and you're on the limit.

excessive oil pressure CAN in some cases overcome the lifter and pump them up solid with hydraulics. i've seen it with hydraulic lifters and a bbc pump used in a sbc,, and street tight bearing clearances. could only run zero lash. it has happened to me.

on overhead cam valve jobs with lifters in the head,, like quad 4 heads, mitsubishi, 2300 fort, etc.. i pull the lifters and bleed them down before the customer gets them back. they pump back up to the correct height as normal.

same with valve jobs with the heads pulled only and the block stays in the car,, especially with surfaced heads,, or unknown gasket thicknesses. with hydraulics,, i pull the lifters and bleed them down in the vice with a 3/8" bolt in the pushrod seat. start from scratch and let em' pump up or prime it again. again,, this is just my way. there will be a bunch of other ways people will swear by.
andy

Andy always nice to read someone else doing almost word for word what I've been doing for years , most of the cam and lifter companies advise against pumping the lifters up before installation now a days for the reason that you give they claim that they have improved the tolerences now to the point they will not bleed down properly if pumped up , something that holds true when you try to bleed down many of the newer OHC heads , I've had the odd bucket style lifters for heads that I've done for some of the car dealers that I finally gave up on and told them to get a warrenty set

what do u mean by a bump?

what do u mean by a bump?

kind of like a smidge. a tweek, a hitch ,not quite a twist:D

ok so a tid-bit but not really a little, haha clear as mud :bowtie:

Thanks again Andy. You're a big help! :bowtie:

i've experienced that if you soak them in oil,, sometimes here and there you may find that one or two lifters won't bleed back down from a light spring pressure with the thick cold oil. with preloading,, it can open that valve.
This is true and not a big deal if you expect it, and realize what's happening. You go to zero lash and then crank another half turn and see it move the rocker opening the valve a little. After a minute or so it magically loosens and the valve closes as the oil bleeds out. It can get a bit confusing if you're using used lifters and they're all full of oil. Just have to trust what you're doing. It isn't rocket science.

It is easier to just lube the lifters, drop them in and do it dry. They'll fill up pretty quick when you prime the oil system. Even better to do it with the intake off so you can see the lifter plunger moving as you preload, and make sure the lifter is on the base, not the lobe.

This is true and not a big deal if you expect it, and realize what's happening. You go to zero lash and then crank another half turn and see it move the rocker opening the valve a little. After a minute or so it magically loosens and the valve closes as the oil bleeds out. It can get a bit confusing if you're using used lifters and they're all full of oil. Just have to trust what you're doing. It isn't rocket science.

It is easier to just lube the lifters, drop them in and do it dry. They'll fill up pretty quick when you prime the oil system. Even better to do it with the intake off so you can see the lifter plunger moving as you preload, and make sure the lifter is on the base, not the lobe.

If manifold is sealed on then yes just air gun the oil pump and move motor aover two times. She gets oiled really well from that pump thru rockers and into valley.

You'll be fine.