hi,ive been on this site for a while but really havent been on for a while becuase of having no computer but i am back and already have a question.i have a 010 350 4 bolt main block with stock crank and connecting rods cut and balanced with speed pro pistion heads and the block is bored .30 over.i have a elderbrok 750 carb with the performer intake so far from last motor but i am runnin into what to do bout heads,cam,and converter.i have stock heads but i saw summit has cast 2.02s for 600 for a pair and the part# is sum-152123.i also have a th 350 trans and a 10 posi rear with 3.73s in it.thanks

Stay away from ordering those summit heads.Look into vortec heads for your combo,They are one of the best heads right now in that price range.They will perform better then those summit castings.They are I think $365 each,also you have to run the vortec/performer intake for those heads.

Those Summit heads are made by Dart. They're basically a Dart Iron Eagle 165 head. I bought the Summit Vortec heads. They're made by Dart as well. I was mislead when I bought them. About 5 different tech's at Summit all told me they were 100% a Vortec type head. I called last week when I got the heads to ask them a question and a different tech named Larry told me they were made by Dart. He told me not to tell anyone he told me that, said he could get in trouble. I don't like being mislead so Larry can get in trouble. I don't care. Darts version of the Vortec head is, they use a Vortec type intake runner and combustion chamber and a Iron Eagle type exhaust runner. This is all according to Dart. They're still going to work fine for me. The 67cc combustion chamber gives me the exact compression ratio I wanted.

As for your set up. If you don't want to buy a different intake, then I would buy those heads. The price is right. If you don't mind buying a Vortec type intake then absolutely look into a Vortec type head. There are a bunch of different Vortec heads out there. The stock GM Vortec heads are about the same price as the Summit heads you're were looking at. They're only good for around .450" or so lift. Make sure that your compression ratio isn't going to be to high with the Vortec's 64cc combustion chamber. Those Summit heads you're looking at have a 72cc combustion chamber.

Your Performer intake has a idle to 5500 RPM range. Edelbrock's Performer Plus cam or a cam similar to it will work. The 750 carb is a little on the big side IMHO.

Yeah the performer plus cam,dont forget that.

yea nyh1,thats the same thing i heard from a few people thats why i was thinkin of runnin them,so what size cam would go wit these and i just looked at the specs for the performer intake and i need to get a bigger one,so how does a weind air gap sound?also with the cam i guess i would just have to find the specs that fit best for a torque converter.thanks for the help everyone

check these heads out,vortec aluminum , seller has 100% feedback.....cgmmotorsports ( 1486) 100% Positive feedback

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-ALUMINUM-SB-CHEVY-CYLINDER-HEADS-VORTEC-RACE_W0QQitemZ380214974127QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item58869416af

I would run a 2600 stall converter and a nice cam like http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-1107/

these are cast iron but all work has been done , springs 2.02 1.60 ss valves, screw in studs and guide plates....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-CHEVY-PERFORMANCE-302-350-906-VORTEC-CYLINDER-HEADS_W0QQitemZ160400817131QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2558a23beb

yea nyh1,thats the same thing i heard from a few people thats why i was thinkin of runnin them,so what size cam would go wit these and i just looked at the specs for the performer intake and i need to get a bigger one,so how does a weind air gap sound?also with the cam i guess i would just have to find the specs that fit best for a torque converter.thanks for the help everyone
I took my heads apart today so I can gasket match them to my intake and just check everything over. The machine work is really good. The springs were shimmed correctly, the valves are cut back in the runner/pocket area. I think for the money I did really good with these heads. Plus as I mentioned earlier, the 67cc combustion chambers give me 9.1:1 static and 7.9:1 dynamic compression ratio's. That's right where I want it to be.

I'm using a Lunati Voodoo 262/268 series hydraulic flat tappet cam. Spec's are 219/227 dur. @ .050", .468"/.489" lift, 112 LSA, 1400 to 5800 RPM range. I'd look for a cam close to what I'm using. You could go a little bigger if you want to. You have enough gear to. I'm going to use a 2000/2200 RPM stall converter. You'd have to use a higher stall converter then me if you go with a larger cam. My motor is a 385 so the added cubic inch can take a little more cam then a 350.

The Weiand intakes are supposed to be pretty good. I don't buy Holley products or products made by their partner companies (long story). Weiand is one of their partner companies. I'm going to use an Edelbrock Vortec RPM intake.

Make sure that which ever heads you go with gives you the right compression ratio. To much compression and you won't be able to run pump gas. Not enough compression and your motor won't make good torque or HP. You have to find a happy medium. With iron heads try to keep it in the 9.0:1 to 9.5:1 range. Aluminum heads will let you run a little more compression. Up to 10.25:1 or so.

these are cast iron but all work has been done , springs 2.02 1.60 ss valves, screw in studs and guide plates....
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/NEW-CHEVY-PERFORMANCE-302-350-906-VORTEC-CYLINDER-HEADS_W0QQitemZ160400817131QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item2558a23beb
my only problem is i really dont want to go with vortec is cuz i bought really expensive valve covers and i dont wanna waste them when i could get some other heads.but if u guys are sayin go with vortec,their is a reason,why are these soo good and arent they stock heads and would make me at bought 9.5 to1 right?

check these heads out,vortec aluminum , seller has 100% feedback.....cgmmotorsports ( 1486) 100% Positive feedback

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-ALUMINUM-SB-CHEVY-CYLINDER-HEADS-VORTEC-RACE_W0QQitemZ380214974127QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item58869416af

I would run a 2600 stall converter and a nice cam like http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-1107/
now thewse would need votec valve covers right?

i am really just lost right now on what to do completely cuz alot of pep round me throw big cams in and thats it but i wanna sound good and back it up thats why im tryin to match everythin now and go wit different heads besides the stocks 882s i have

stock 882's are ok for a stock 350. you pt on the vortec heads either cast or aluminum and the right cam, your looking at 75 hp easy... sell the valve covers and buy new ones, but send a email to the guys on the vortec heads, ask if they take both, most aftermarket ones do, and ask about the intake also, some will take both also. vortec heads flow enough stock to support 400 hp... thats why we like them, the ones above are upgrsded bigtime and would support 450 hp or more ....

im prolly goin to call him tomorrow or monday cuz i wanna figure out what would be the best cam to run on them heads.also do u think any heads besides votecs off of summit would work good.and what do u mean take them both?

[QUOTE=z28rod]check these heads out,vortec aluminum , seller has 100% feedback.....cgmmotorsports ( 1486) 100% Positive feedback

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-ALUMINUM-SB-CHEVY-CYLINDER-HEADS-VORTEC-RACE_W0QQitemZ380214974127QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item58869416af

Anyone use these heads? are they the procomps? or a variation of them?

im prolly goin to call him tomorrow or monday cuz i wanna figure out what would be the best cam to run on them heads.also do u think any heads besides votecs off of summit would work good.and what do u mean take them both?

Patriot Vortec heads will take center bolt cover or perimeter.

I bought a set last fall for a roller and they work very well.

With iron heads try to keep it in the 9.0:1 to 9.5:1 range. Aluminum heads will let you run a little more compression. Up to 10.25:1 or so.

i have put several engines together that are 11:1 range on 93 octane with aluminum heads on the street.

11-1 will run with 93 oct and aluminum heads... iron heads keep her under 10-1...

Anyone use these heads? are they the procomps? or a variation of them? i will email the seller...

i have put several engines together that are 11:1 range on 93 octane with aluminum heads on the street.
Like I said, "or so". I've never used aluminum heads. All I know is what I've read or heard. Most say 10.25 to 10.5. Plus the cams he's looking to use are going to have a high dynamic compression ratio. Just trying to play it safe for him! :)

FLAKES81, those heads you're looking at from Summit aren't horribly bad. They're old technology, no doubt. With the exception of Vortec heads they'll probably out flow just about every other small block head Chevy made. They can be used as replacements in stock racing classes requiring stock type heads. So they're not going to set the world on fire.

I have a book here by David Vizard. In it he says out of the box the Dart Iron Eagle 165 heads will out flow the double hump Fuelie heads hands down. And with a little work they can be made to flow a lot better. It really depends on what you're going to use your car for. If you're looking to "warm it over" so to say and just drive it, they'll work fine, especially for the price. If you're looking to make a lot of power, then you'll want to look at something different.

My situation was I had no parts except my block to start with. So I had to buy everything, my rotating assembly, heads, intake, valve covers the whole nine yards....everything. I chose the Summit Vortec heads. They were in my price range. Like I said, I took them apart yesterday and the machine work seems really good. For the money I spent, I'm more then happy!

Figure out what operating range you want to have and go from there. The bigger the cam the more you'll more your power range up needing more stall converter ect.

Buy a few books and you'll see what different people say. You'll see where a lot of times they say the same things and then there will be times where they say different things. Pretty much all of them said the same thing about the Dart Iron Eagle 165 and even the World Products S/R Torquer heads. It's good to have different peoples opinion on these type of things! :bowtie:

FLAKES81, those heads you're looking at from Summit aren't horribly bad. They're old technology, no doubt. With the exception of Vortec heads they'll probably out flow just about every other small block head Chevy made. They can be used as replacements in stock racing classes requiring stock type heads. So they're not going to set the world on fire.

I have a book here by David Vizard. In it he says out of the box the Dart Iron Eagle 165 heads will out flow the double hump Fuelie heads hands down. And with a little work they can be made to flow a lot better. It really depends on what you're going to use your car for. If you're looking to "warm it over" so to say and just drive it, they'll work fine, especially for the price. If you're looking to make a lot of power, then you'll want to look at something different.

My situation was I had no parts except my block to start with. So I had to buy everything, my rotating assembly, heads, intake, valve covers the whole nine yards....everything. I chose the Summit Vortec heads. They were in my price range. Like I said, I took them apart yesterday and the machine work seems really good. For the money I spent, I'm more then happy!

Figure out what operating range you want to have and go from there. The bigger the cam the more you'll more your power range up needing more stall converter ect.

Buy a few books and you'll see what different people say. You'll see where a lot of times they say the same things and then there will be times where they say different things. Pretty much all of them said the same thing about the Dart Iron Eagle 165 and even the World Products S/R Torquer heads. It's good to have different peoples opinion on these type of things! :bowtie:


how long ago were all these books wrote that your reading?

FLAKES81, those heads you're looking at from Summit aren't horribly bad. They're old technology, no doubt. With the exception of Vortec heads they'll probably out flow just about every other small block head Chevy made. They can be used as replacements in stock racing classes requiring stock type heads. So they're not going to set the world on fire.

I have a book here by David Vizard. In it he says out of the box the Dart Iron Eagle 165 heads will out flow the double hump Fuelie heads hands down. And with a little work they can be made to flow a lot better. It really depends on what you're going to use your car for. If you're looking to "warm it over" so to say and just drive it, they'll work fine, especially for the price. If you're looking to make a lot of power, then you'll want to look at something different.

My situation was I had no parts except my block to start with. So I had to buy everything, my rotating assembly, heads, intake, valve covers the whole nine yards....everything. I chose the Summit Vortec heads. They were in my price range. Like I said, I took them apart yesterday and the machine work seems really good. For the money I spent, I'm more then happy!

Figure out what operating range you want to have and go from there. The bigger the cam the more you'll more your power range up needing more stall converter ect.

Buy a few books and you'll see what different people say. You'll see where a lot of times they say the same things and then there will be times where they say different things. Pretty much all of them said the same thing about the Dart Iron Eagle 165 and even the World Products S/R Torquer heads. It's good to have different peoples opinion on these type of things! :bowtie:
well im tryin to hit bought 450 out of my car right now until later on.i am just lost right now on what to use.im goin to be drivin it almost daily until winter and takin it to the track,i would like to run now bout 12,2s

how long ago were all these books wrote that your reading?
My book by David Vizard "How To Build Max-Performance Chevy Small-Blocks On A Budget" was released in 2009. It's a SA Design Book PT# SA57. And he was referring to the World Produsts S/R Torquer heads.

I have another book at my parents. It's more of a engine building book It's a SA Design book too. "How To Rebuild The Small-Block Chevy" PT# SA26 I believe. He's go's into great detail about assembling. I forgot the guys name that wrote it and I don't know the date it was released. IIRC he talks about the Dart Iron Eagle heads.

SA Design also has a book on SBC heads. It's called "high-Performance Small-Block Cylinder Heads" PT# SA125 I believe. That book says the same things about the Iron Eagle 165 heads that David Vizard says about the WP S/R heads. I didn't buy that one, I was looking through it at Barnes and Nobles.

well im tryin to hit bought 450 out of my car right now until later on.i am just lost right now on what to use.im goin to be drivin it almost daily until winter and takin it to the track,i would like to run now bout 12,2sIf you want to make 450 HP you're going to spend a lot more money on heads then either of the iron Summit heads. How much money are you willing to spend on heads? And your Performer intake definitely isn't going to work.

The Iron eagle ss heads are only about 7 cfm better (210 cfm vs 203 cfm) than the gm 441/882's at .500 lift on the intake side, and virtually the same at the other lift points. It is slightly better on the exhaust. The iron eagles do have an improved combustion chamber as compared to the 882's but to me the bang for the buck is just not there.

The RHS iron lightning heads are around $250-300 more than what you would spend on the summit heads, but are a more performance oriented head with alot better flow #'s.

The Iron eagle ss heads are only about 7 cfm better (210 cfm vs 203 cfm) than the gm 441/882's at .500 lift on the intake side, and virtually the same at the other lift points. It is slightly better on the exhaust. The iron eagles do have an improved combustion chamber as compared to the 882's but to me the bang for the buck is just not there.

The RHS iron lightning heads are around $250-300 more than what you would spend on the summit heads, but are a more performance oriented head with alot better flow #'s.
$620 for brand new pair of assembled heads that need no work and are thicker in the crack prone areas of factory heads. To me they're worth it when you're on an extreme budget and every penny counts.

I can't say anything about the RHS heads. I couldn't afford heads that cost $250-300 more then the Summit Vortec heads I bought. My budget is extremely tight and I'm only looking to get about 350 HP out of my motor.

I figured since FLAKES81 mentioned those heads he was on a budget like I am. If I knew he wanted to make 450 HP, as I said earlier, we wouldn't even be talking about Iron Eagle 165 heads. We'd be talking Iron Eagle 180/200's or something like that.

Just my $.02, YMMV.

Iron Eagle 180/200's . these are very nice heads and should support 450hp no problemo...

Yeah, they should work fine. There are a bunch of other good heads out there that other guys know more about then I do. The WP Sportsman II head would probably work too. :bowtie:

WP Sportsman II excellent head, iron eagles are more current technology..

Now I'm p!ssed LOL!

I talked to my best friend tonight. I've haven't talked to him in almost a month. His new shop is a ways away so I don't get to see him that often. Lately we just text each other, and it's usually jokes we send back and forth.

The last time he called me, he had a set of GM L98 aluminum heads off a customers ZZ4 crate engine. They were about a year old and his customer would've sold them to me for $500. I didn't want them. Vortec heads flow better then them. And I really wanted to use iron heads.

Well he also had a set of "like new" Dart Iron Eagle 200 heads he isn't going to use. After he asked me if I wanted the L98 heads we started BSing and he forgot to ask me if I wanted them. He would have sold them to me for $500 too.

I don't know, they might be a little over kill for what I'm going to be doing. It still would've been nice to think about it for a day or two or three LOL. :confused:

just keep in touch with him and tell him when he gets heads in to email you...

He still has the Iron Eagle heads and the RPM intake that was going to go with them. I already bought a set of Summit Vortec heads and a Vortec RPM intake though.

I have to take my son (he's 8) out to his shop pretty soon. He likes to see all his new projects. Plus we take his little ATV out there so he gets to ride a little bit too. :)

very cool, those summit heads should be great, give a post when you get her going..

If I can figure out how to LOL. My wife can do it I think. :bowtie:

Have a bowl port done to them, its not that expensive and can give you 30hp. Make sure the guy knows what he is doing. Usually roundy round machine shop guys can port well. just check their rep out before you give them your brand new heads...

If you want to make 450 HP you're going to spend a lot more money on heads then either of the iron Summit heads. How much money are you willing to spend on heads? And your Performer intake definitely isn't going to work.
sorry,lot of stuff goin on right but ill spend like 1200 on heads right and i deff kno the performer is out

If you want to make 450 HP you're going to spend a lot more money on heads then either of the iron Summit heads. How much money are you willing to spend on heads? And your Performer intake definitely isn't going to work.
and i was on a budget but just got aproved for summits c.c so