Back in '85 when I had my engine rebuilt, I left the AIR smog stuff off the engine and plugged the exhaust manifolds with 1/4" pipe plugs.
I used a 1/4" ratchet extention but by the time I got to the last one it of course broke the socket extention. I don't remember if I used Anti-Seize.

But I need to remove them so I can reinstall my SMOG system. I've soaked it with PB Blaster. I was going to find a tool 1st then go for a drive to heat up the manifolds and try and loosen them. If I can't get them loosened then I'll have to go to a buds house to heat the manifold area with a torch to expand the metal around the plug.

Is there a allen type tool I can buy to fit the 1/4" square hole?
http://www.cgenterprises.com/3004.jpg

Not that I'm aware of. Is the end of the 1/4" extension still stuck in the plug?

There are square drives available and you might find one that fits TIGHTLY into the head of the plug, not "sloppy" like the ratchet extension did. So you have the lowest chance possible of just rounding the corners off.

Repeated soakings with PB blaster over a 3 day period (NO DRIVING IT DURING THAT TIME!) and then having at it with heat and the best tool you can find is about your best bet. Beyond that you're probably going to degernate into a "drill and re-tap" oepration.

And don't forget the old mechanic's trick of "back and forth" A straight pull in one drirection doesn't work very well at cracking stuck things apart. It often just breaks tools and strips the heads off of things. Try to tighten first, then loosen, over and over again. Experienced mechanics can often work miracles on stuck parts that will drive a novice up the wall (even if that novice has all the tools in the world at his disposal).

You ever thought of just buying a set of used manifolds that still have their air tubes in tact? Used SBC manifolds can be had for next to nothing and most were used on a millions of similar cars over many model years.

No, it wasn't that tight of a fit. I got them all installed ok in '85. I just don't want to use a socket extension and have it break the extension.
Changing manifolds is just too easy but I want to leave them on the car since they were born with the car.

use a ball end allen wrench

.

Excellent post Damon. Great information.

I bought a socket set years ago with allen, torx & square drive in the kit.
It's like a 15-20 piece set. I don't use it often, but when I do, it sure comes in handy.

.

use a ball end allen wrench

What size allen wrench fits a 1/4" square hole?

#6 metric and it spins. I can buy a easyout that has a 1/4 shaft and grind it down, but then that's 8.00+pst+gst. And if that doesn't work, there goes $ down the drain. How about grinding a bolt at the end of the threads to a square 1/4" end? I did think of welding a 1/4" nut at the end of a bolt, but a 1/4" is pretty small. I'd have to stack a bunch together and weld them and then grind off the excess weld.

a little heat & another 1/4 extension and it'll come out.

They do sell a square drive socket bit set but I'm sure you don't want to hear this... It's from Snap On....

I bought the set years ago and it has been invaluable!

You need a candle and a torch. Heat the pipe plug and the area around it up as hot as you can, remove the torch, apply the candle till it stops melting. Then try to turn the offending pipe plug out. It should back right out as the candle was (parifin) is a great lubricant on cast iron.

Use a 50/50 mix of ATF and Acetone (Nail Polish remover) as your penetrant, it wil work better than the PB Blaster

I heat up the manifold area around the plug only to expand it, correct?

I do have a square drive socket that's used with a magnetic screw driver but I'd only be able to use a closed end 1/4" wrench and there's no leverage compared to a 1/4" drive ratchet with a bar. I'll heat it up with a propane torch tomorrow and see what happens and I'll try the candle. If it's a no go then I'll wait for the rain to go away after a few days and drive to my engine builders place so he can hit it with acetylene. If I would have used those ugly bolt plugs, they'd be out in no time.

http://www.nastyz28.com/~copo/pipe plug.JPG

+1...candle wax. I didn't believe it at first but it works!

i have the square drive socket set,, and also use a snap on reverse twist screw extractor set sometimes. here's one that no one has mentioned....................

get a drift or piece of round metal dowel stock just bigger arround than the plug and flat on the end,,,,,, and smack it repeatedly a few times first. right there on the head of the plug semi hard,, and repeatedly.

it'll do 2 things. first,, it "warms it up" and helps to break up the "now rusted together metal of the plug and manifold",, and second,, it makes the plug square hole a bit tighter so your square drive will hammer in there with more press fit.

and third,, like mentioned,,, always,, and i mean always tighten it first till it "cracks" loose. once you hear the pop,, you can start working it back and forth. if you only try to loosen it,, more than likely after you heat it with a torch,, the hardening will be gone from the plug as it's anealed,, and you'll for sure round out the inside square drive.

when all else fails,, drill that sucker with a 3/8 drill bit to relieve the press fit,, and hammer in that screw extractor.
andy

That sure looks like a square 3/8" You're saying it's 1/4"???

I used a 3/8 drive ratchet with a 1/4 reducer back in '85, then on the last one the reducer snapped.

I would give what Andy said a try, he knows his stuff!

I used a 3/8 drive ratchet with a 1/4 reducer back in '85, then on the last one the reducer snapped.

thanks cody,,

copo,,,
i'll snap some pics of the different square drive tools i've used over the years. sometimes,, it's almost time saving to just drill them out to relieve the press fit and use one of the screw extractors. the reverse twist snap-on set i have is not the typical swirl twisted one. it's only twisted like 1/8 of a turn. usually it will get them with no drilling and a bit of tapping it with a metal dowel drift. a 3/8" drill bit is slightly bigger than the square drive,, but that's what it takes to thin the wall out enough to relieve the press fit and still leave enough wall thickness that the points of the extractor don't dig into the threads.

the exhaust heat kind of aneals the plugs when they're so close to the flame and excess heat in your case. so,, don't rule out drilling,, and please wait before putting more heat to it. let me get you some pics first. the plugs still looks usable from your pic. hope it helps.
andy

I give up. I tried the heat, tried the wax. Won't budge. I can't get the manifold hot enough using brazing fuel and i don't want to break the 3/8-1/4 drive socket reducer. I'll have to take it to my engine builder to sock the acetylene to it. :whine: I hate running around to get a job done.

I measured the threads on my smog tube threads and they are 1/2 x 18 NC. I'll have to pick up 8 of these bolts to screw back in a couple of turns until I get my smog pipes. Do these need to be special or tapered?

You'all can say what you want.....but I say anybody that has/works on these cars sooner or later needs a MIG welder and a set of acetylene torches. Either of which would have solved your problem long ago.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ken

http://i158.photobucket.com/albums/t110/camaropigs2000/Welder.jpg

I have a mig welder. I could weld a bolt to each hole or grind down a 3/8 bolt to a square and hope the hardness doesn't weaken it from the heat of the grinder. I say it would weaken the hardness and welding a bolt to each plug is not clean enough for a weld, it's just too tight. Heat it is. I've wasted enough time on it. F it. It's going to the torch man.:eek: I gave it 4 days of penetrating fluid. BP and GM brand.
I know a few guys that are just getting fed up these days wrenching on these old cars and going out for a new Challenger or a Stang, or as one Mopar guy did was bought a used Stang with a supercharger on it.

If your a boomer like I am, this crosses your mind many times especially when this kind of snot doesn't work out.

Should I take the manifolds off when I go to my builder to get the plugs removed or leave them on for leverage?

A mig welder, torch set and a Bridgeport ;)

Should I take the manifolds off when I go to my builder to get the plugs removed or leave them on for leverage?
Ask the guy you will be bringing the car to.

Ask the guy who will be burning the car .


Fixed it for you.:o

Thanks Kenny :D

Man you guys are hilarious. In the future if you can't contribute with a sensible answer then don't bother at all. There's a BS section for that.

Man you guys are hilarious. In the future if you can't contribute with a sensible answer then don't bother at all. There's a BS section for that.

i snapped some pics last night. i'll post em' up tonight.
andy

Gonna drop by my builder and see what tool he has cause my 3/8-1/4 reducer is not tight enough and I'll try and see if I can get them to budge cold since I've soaked them for days now.

Should I take the manifolds off when I go to my builder to get the plugs removed or leave them on for leverage?


I would go through the extra effort and take them off the car....no matter what. put them in a vise if holding onto them is a problem.

If something would slip and your paint gets scratched or worse you would be even more pissed off.

Get it REALLY hot, like with an acetylene torch, and spray it with penetrating oil - yes it will steam and smoke badly.. keep soaking it untill it stops smoking and steaming off. This will loosen it up quite quickly. I use this trick at work all the time.

copo, here ya go. i've done the heat like adam mentioned,, but i'm not fond of heating the cast iron like that. it does funny things sometimes when it is cooled to fast. just my opinion.
andy
http://i449.photobucket.com/albums/qq216/superfly_64_fly/tools/pipeplugtools.jpg

I actually should have been more clear, after reading my post, that you want to get the PLUG really hot... concentrate as much of the heat as possible onto the plug itself. Its not hard to get the plug glowing bright red or orange before getting any significant heat into the manifold if you have a good acetylene torch.

When you 'quench' it by spraying the plug with penetrating oil, from how its been explained to me, the vapor actually gets into the tightest spaces where even the liquid oil would have a hard time getting to, and breaks the rust loose. Its also breaks it loose by cooling it down very quickly, though not in the extreme way that water will (which can lead to cracked parts).

Car is jacked up at the front. The exhaust pipes are going to get dropped and the manifolds are coming off. I've got a 1/4x1/4 lathe bit and a socket. I'm going to heat the manifold area only so it expands using an acetylene torch. If the plugs come out, I'll chase them with a tap to clean up the threads.

Hey, Rat, that's quite the Dr. Tools you have. Wish my old neighbor lived across from me. He had everything including the plugs which I now wish I didn't use and used the bolt head type that were ugly and would probably be a snap to remove. I didn't ever expect to put my smog back on when they came off in '85. I drove the car for 5 yrs with the pump functional when I bought the car back in '81.

Why I'm doing this is so in case I get pulled over by the smog Police, so I don't get a $350.00 fine for missing my smog pump/pipes. I only have 1 item missing. Others who have been pulled over have had a heavier fine, some with a warning and X amount of days to get it fixed.

If all these were missing off of 1 car then the $350 would be multiplied by each infraction.
If you don't have a PCV, that's $350., if no pipe from the breather to the valve cover that's another $350, if you have a open oil breather, that's another $350, if your car didn't come with an open air breather, there's another $350., no cats that's $350 etc, etc. What came on it from the factory has to be back on. How they know? They have a database and when they come across a car that is not in their database then this is when they call General Motors. I smell a money grab.

I just bought this cheap set to remove a 5/16" plug from an LT1 head. Oddball size. No heat, no lube, just a 1/2" impact gun and the correct socket took it out no problem. It was a ugly rusted one too, much worse than yours to remove. Impact gun is the trick, the hammering while turning really works.

http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/GPC-1308P.html

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/drptop70ss/gpc-1308p.gif

The exhaust pipes are going to get dropped and the manifolds are coming off.

makes it lots easier in the long run taking it off the car. i'm following along with ya.

i'd use a fairly big crescent like a 12",,, and put the wrench down as close to the plug as you can on the lathe bit,, right on top just above the plug if possible. allow no bending action,, stay completely square,, only pure rotation of the quarter by quarter lathe bit arround the centerline axis of the bit. those lathe bits if carbide,, are fairly brittle as well. be careful with that.

one step at a time though. getting the manifolds off can be a chore sometimes as well,, after they've been on there since 1985. lol. keep your wits about you,, it'll get done even if you have to drill it in the end. i try removers, extractors, then drill it out and use extractors if needed. always in those steps of order. start simple first. the heat may get it.
andy

I actually should have been more clear, after reading my post, that you want to get the PLUG really hot... concentrate as much of the heat as possible onto the plug itself. Its not hard to get the plug glowing bright red or orange before getting any significant heat into the manifold if you have a good acetylene torch.

When you 'quench' it by spraying the plug with penetrating oil, from how its been explained to me, the vapor actually gets into the tightest spaces where even the liquid oil would have a hard time getting to, and breaks the rust loose. Its also breaks it loose by cooling it down very quickly, though not in the extreme way that water will (which can lead to cracked parts).


This is exactly what i do when nothing else works. Heat the plug, spray the plug, and quickly unscrew. The heat pulls the penetrant into the thread by capillary action, just like solder into a pipe joint. You can turn it with two fingers. I use wd-40 in a spray bottle, without any propellant, but i imagine anything similar would do.

We'll try that if heating outside the plug doesn't work, I didn't really want to heat the plug and weaken it.

I just bought this cheap set to remove a 5/16" plug from an LT1 head. Oddball size. No heat, no lube, just a 1/2" impact gun and the correct socket took it out no problem. It was a ugly rusted one too, much worse than yours to remove. Impact gun is the trick, the hammering while turning really works.

http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/GPC-1308P.html

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/drptop70ss/gpc-1308p.gif

Sheet, too bad you don't live near me.
Is it a snug fit? Snugger than a 1/4 drive ratchet?

Anyone know who sells these in singles or by the kit in Canada? Home Depot? Canadian Tire. That would be perfect. I have an electric 1/2" drive 240 ft lb impact gun. And the manifolds could stay on. Damn, if I bought them in the US it would cost probably double after all the taxes and duties? Free trade again, where is it and the dollar is almost at par. I'll have to make some phone calls tomorrow to some tool places around here. If anyone knows of any places east of Toronto that would be great.

Keep in mind that heating the plug and spraying penetrating lube on it may shock it, but the lube doesn't usually get into the threads, it just evaporates off.

Wax (beeswax is what machinists use) will get into the threads and stay there and act as a lubricant.

I just bought this cheap set to remove a 5/16" plug from an LT1 head. Oddball size. No heat, no lube, just a 1/2" impact gun and the correct socket took it out no problem. It was a ugly rusted one too, much worse than yours to remove. Impact gun is the trick, the hammering while turning really works.

http://www.ntxtools.com/network-tool-warehouse/GPC-1308P.html

http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d136/drptop70ss/gpc-1308p.gif
Geez thanks a lot, now I need to buy another tool I can't possibly live without :D

That is a sweet set and it will fit the pipe plug much better than an extension or ratchet head. I should have bought one years ago to remove the oil galley plugs.

http://www.mytoolstore.com/sk/sk03221.html

Sheet, too bad you don't live near me.
Is it a snug fit? Snugger than a 1/4 drive ratchet?

Anyone know who sells these in singles or by the kit in Canada? Home Depot? Canadian Tire. That would be perfect. I have an electric 1/2" drive 240 ft lb impact gun. And the manifolds could stay on. Damn, if I bought them in the US it would cost probably double after all the taxes and duties? Free trade again, where is it and the dollar is almost at par. I'll have to make some phone calls tomorrow to some tool places around here. If anyone knows of any places east of Toronto that would be great.

The one socket I used so far worked great, I considered the SK ones originally but didnt want to use one in an impact gun. Plus the SKs are around $12 each and this whole kit was on sale for $38 and should last me a long time for the few times I will need it.

Geez thanks a lot, now I need to buy another tool I can't possibly live without :D

That is a sweet set and it will fit the pipe plug much better than an extension or ratchet head. I should have bought one years ago to remove the oil galley plugs.

:) yep, I should of bought one awhile ago too, I always got away with using ratchets until I ran into a 5/16" plug. The right tool always make the work easier.

I would think the SK would break since it's probably not as strong as the impact plug socket.
I called up a friend of mine who's into 67 RS Camaros and one has a 427 in it. He has the black strong pipe plug socket with the male 1/4 end and uses it to remove cam plugs with a breaker bar. Plus has heat if we need it. If the tool breaks, I'd rather have it break with him using it. And of course I'll pay for a new one.

What state are you in that you are finding people are getting tickets for this kind of stuff?

^^ Ontario Canada.

you gotta be carefull if your going to armdrop...they set up mto and moe to get everyone.

Armdrop? Hope that's not a name of a town?

no....cyagua event....aka pinks.

got it. I've heard them sitting and waiting outside tracks such as Cayuga race track and up the street from your local car cruise night.
Just read, max $500. fine.

COPO, You said you got a MIG Welder???

Get a large washer and hex nut that fits over the plug.
Plug weld inside the pipe plug to attach it fully to the inside of the nut.
Let it cool off and back it out.

This is a trick used for removing broken off bolts or studs.

Replace them with a set of inverted flare plugs and anti-seize! They fit better, seal on the face and give you less problems removing them.

74RAT, that's the same sets I bought have used them so many times! Worth every penny to all my friends I've bailed out with them!!!

74RAT, that's the same sets I bought have used them so many times! Worth every penny to all my friends I've bailed out with them!!!

yep,, couple of those sets are at least 20 years old. still work fine. i've been loving that left handed bit set (my second set of them,, can only sharpen them so many times!!). was a bonus that it came with the extractors that i haven't used yet. sometimes the heat from drilling will back em' on out with the bit spinning to the left.
andy

A 1/4 in. square carbide that machinist use and a impact socket.

I do have a carbide bit but a friend of mine has the correct hardened tool he uses to get cam plugs out using a breaker bar and acetylene just in case to use on my plugs.

Got 7 out of 8 with acetylene using a lathe bit and socket and breaker bar. Took 1-2 times heating it red on the drivers side. The other side was a different story. All were a freakin bitch. Eventually found a square long EZ-out that bit in after heating it up 3-4 times. The 2nd one from the front did not come out but split at the corners. FFF me. We didn't have time today to pull the manifold off to heat the manifold real good and go from there.

Ways to get the last one out:


1. Weld the lathe bit in the plug and apply heat as before.
2. Remove the manifold and heat the plug and hit it with a brass punch first from the front then from the rear repeating this for 1 min. Then reheat and try and remove it with the welded bit on the front.
3. Drill a hole smaller than the 7/16 original hole and heating up the plug red, then smacking the square easyout so it forms a square, then let it cool then try and turn it with a long adjustable.
4. Using a smaller drill bit than the 7/16 original hole and drill it out and hope the drill stays straight and use a chisel to spin the waste out.
I think this way the threads will be buggered up.
or
5. Weld a washer to the remaining pipe and a nut on top.


http://www.nastyz28.com/~copo/plug.jpg

I don't want to damage the threads or I'll need to use an extra manifold i have but it needs some metal build up near one of the mounting holes and a resurface to get rid of the pitting.

Any better ideas?