Driving the car to the shop (20 ish miles) it was really hot when I pulled in.. I didn't take a peek at the temp. gauge to see, but it was warm.. I have no heat in the car, the heater core, and tubing has all been pulled out before I bought it, and the holes in the water pump, and intake manifold plugged.

After replacing the intake manifold gaskets, putting my carb back on (holley 650 [engine is a 350 bored .30 over]), hooking up the vacuum module (to the trans? th350), and putting everything back together, my auto teacher helped me set the timing. Which we believe was off in the first place. He got it to about 12 degrees advanced, and said we would retard it if necessary later.. It seemed to start up and run better though.

Taking it for a drive after warming it up, and topping off the coolant, the temperature rose to about 220 ish, which the assistant shop teacher riding with me said was too hot.. we drove back, the shop teacher (apparently he's smallblock chevy "pro") said it was fine.. but, to possibly try putting in a new thermostat..

I said okay, as I wasn't planning on driving it much anyways, and left.. the temp. got to around 250 ish after "getting on it a little".. then climbed to a peak of about 270.. Wayy.. too.. hot, keep in mind.. its about 45 outside.

I guess, I'm just wondering what you guys think?.. My dad said to just take the thermostat out seeing the coolant doesnt need to be heated anymore seeing the heater core is gone, but.. I want a second opinion.. lol. Any help would be great, ask away, I'll answer anything if it helps it to run better, as of now, I'm nervous about the heat.

Second.. Sorry about being so long, but I'm trying to be as descriptive as possible..

I pulled into the local mobile station, to go wash the car (about 220-250 degrees still) I took a somewhat good jolt driving over the grate/concrete rain "guide".. the car simply stalled, and I limped in, tryed to start it, and had no such luck. A friend came and jumped me, it started, and I kept driving to meet my girlfriend.

To make a long story short, it seems that everytime I try to shift on my own (transpak kit installed) it wants to die out at stop signs or lights, even when I quickly throw it in neutral and try to revive it. If I keep it in normal drive I don't seem to notice it. My fuel filter has air in it, not sure if that could be the problem?.. Any one possibly know?..

As I said, sorry about the long explinations, but, I figure it'd be easier that trying to explain everything throughout. Could really use some help.

your a bad bad man driving your car so hot....you likely had an airlock after changing the gaskets. but no matter what...driving it to hot will wreck it. lights and guages are not just decoration. and a tow is usually cheaper then a new engine.

Driving the car to the shop (20 ish miles) it was really hot when I pulled in.. I didn't take a peek at the temp. gauge to see, but it was warm.. I have no heat in the car, the heater core, and tubing has all been pulled out before I bought it, and the holes in the water pump, and intake manifold plugged.

After replacing the intake manifold gaskets, putting my carb back on (holley 650 [engine is a 350 bored .30 over]), hooking up the vacuum module (to the trans? th350), and putting everything back together, my auto teacher helped me set the timing. Which we believe was off in the first place. He got it to about 12 degrees advanced, and said we would retard it if necessary later.. It seemed to start up and run better though.

Taking it for a drive after warming it up, and topping off the coolant, the temperature rose to about 220 ish, which the assistant shop teacher riding with me said was too hot.. we drove back, the shop teacher (apparently he's smallblock chevy "pro") said it was fine.. but, to possibly try putting in a new thermostat..

I said okay, as I wasn't planning on driving it much anyways, and left.. the temp. got to around 250 ish after "getting on it a little".. then climbed to a peak of about 270.. Wayy.. too.. hot, keep in mind.. its about 45 outside.

I guess, I'm just wondering what you guys think?.. My dad said to just take the thermostat out seeing the coolant doesnt need to be heated anymore seeing the heater core is gone, but.. I want a second opinion.. lol. Any help would be great, ask away, I'll answer anything if it helps it to run better, as of now, I'm nervous about the heat.

Second.. Sorry about being so long, but I'm trying to be as descriptive as possible..

I pulled into the local mobile station, to go wash the car (about 220-250 degrees still) I took a somewhat good jolt driving over the grate/concrete rain "guide".. the car simply stalled, and I limped in, tryed to start it, and had no such luck. A friend came and jumped me, it started, and I kept driving to meet my girlfriend.

To make a long story short, it seems that everytime I try to shift on my own (transpak kit installed) it wants to die out at stop signs or lights, even when I quickly throw it in neutral and try to revive it. If I keep it in normal drive I don't seem to notice it. My fuel filter has air in it, not sure if that could be the problem?.. Any one possibly know?..

As I said, sorry about the long explinations, but, I figure it'd be easier that trying to explain everything throughout. Could really use some help.

You know how to test a thermostat right? You know, put it in boiling water than see if it opens. And if thats fine just bypass the heater core just in case its clogged. Usually you can tell if your thermostat is junk if the hose from the thermostat to the radiator seems colder than it should to the touch. I cant really think oh anything else that would make your engine overheat like that unless you got a clog somewhere. Could be some gunk in the system or an intake gasket defect.

You know how to test a thermostat right? You know, put it in boiling water than see if it opens. And if thats fine just bypass the heater core just in case its clogged. .

so your telling me that if my heater core is clogged my car will overheat???hmm well alot of people like this dude don't have a heater so whats the difference and cars with a/c often have a valve to close off the heater flow. now im going to have to start to figure this out....

No heater core, its non-existant, all the heating parts are taken out, except for the thermostat. The water pump, and intake manifold "ports" where the lines ran to the heater core have been plugged with just simple engine plugs.

Can I just take the thermostat out?.. seeing I don't need hot coolant in the first place? and should I bypass the old "ports" for the heater core (manifold to water pump) with a piece of tubing? or just leave it plugged with the brass or whatever inserts?

Got a real good radiator?
A great HD Aluminom/plastic one has been discussed at nauseum on here, use the advanced search. Autozone etc sells them for about $100-$120.
USE the fan shroud. USE the original clutch fan.

You must run a thermostat. Explaining it all takes a couple of paragraphs. Just put in a 180* t'stat and you'll have done right.

Overheating problems can be a female dog to find.

Easiest thing to try is changing the thermostat. Buy a new name brand (like Robert Shaw) 180 degree thermostat. Put it in a pan of cold water with a (candy) thermometer and slowly bring it to a boil. Watch it like a hawk to see that it opens somewhat closely to 180 F. Remove from heat and slowly add cold water till it closes. Cycle it a couple of times to verify that it works.


Assuming that a new thermostat doesn't fix, you're now on a quest.

Have the radiator cap tested. It should be a minimum of a 15#. While they're testing the cap, have them pressure test the cooling system.

Does the engine have a fan? What kind? Aftermarket, OEM, Clutch or not, number of blades, kind (steel, stainless steel, fiberglass), electric fans (pushing or pulling AND verify that the fan is indeed blowing in the correct direction= blowing front to back on the radiator).

Does it have a fan shroud that the fan just fits into and does the fan shroud cover the whole radiator?

How many pass is the radiator: two, three, four? With the radiator cap off, can you see coolant flow? Is the radiator air tight to the radiator support? If not, take tin or roof flashing or rubber sheeting and make it as air tight as possible. Take the radiator to a radiator shop and have them test it for flow.

Are you sure that it has the correct rotation water pump? The coolant should be flowing from the driver's side (top hose) to the passenger side (bottom hose). Unfortunately, about the only way to know for sure is to have an old correct rotation pump to compare it to (unless someone here has a better way to verify it).

Is there a spring in the bottom hose or is it one of those corrugated hoses? If it is a smooth hose, it has to have a spring in it. What happens without the spring in the bottom hose is that while running at cruise rpm, the hose collapses = no coolant flow = overheating.

You checked the timing but check it again.

What jets are in the carburetor? Before taking it apart, buy a set of blue Holley bowl gaskets and see what's in there. You can look the carburetor's model number up to see what was original and go from there. Does it have a power valve or are they blocked off? If blocked off, then the jets need to be bumped up a couple of sizes.

How do the spark plugs look? WHITE is too lean. BLACK is too rich. Brown is perfect. Both lean and too rich can cause it to run hot.

I hate to say it, if NONE of the above fixes it, you might have bearing problems. I had a rebuilt 350 that overheated from the second that I started it. My mistake was ASSUMING that the machine shop cleaned everything after they worked on it and ground the crank to the proper dimensions. After weeks of pulling my hair out (and doing ALL of the above), I gave up on it and put another beater motor in the car which ran at normal temperatures. I was so mad that I didn’t look inside that engine for a long time. When I did, I found that ALL of the main bearings were SHOT! Notice that I left this for last as my fingers are crossed that this is NOT the problem.

You must run a thermostat. Explaining it all takes a couple of paragraphs. Just put in a 180* t'stat and you'll have done right.

I don't run a thermostat in my engine. No problems unless it get 90F+. The engine will then run about 215F. But I do run Evans coolant in the engine. I don't know if thats why I don't need a thermostat. The engine is a 454; 070 over.

An engine that warms up and operates at its proper temperature lasts far longer and has the best performance.

A thermostat is also important because it allows time for the coolant to cool off in the radiator when closed. If not used, the hot coolant circulates back into the engine too quickly, resulting in higher than normal temps. It took me a long time to understand this concept, as I always thought the opposite.

You said your shop teacher helped you, and was a small block chevy pro? If this is the case, I'm sure that he would know what he was doing. I'm betting on an airlock. I'd spend money on a new rad cap, the ones with the lever that let you release the pressure into the overflow, allowing you to remove the cap when hot without burning yourself. Get it up to temp, if it climbs over 200, release the pressure, remove the cover, and verify fluid is topped up. let it idle for a while and watch. You'll know if the t-stat is working because the top hose should be hot. Try shutting off the car with the cap off, parked on an upward incline so that rad is the highest point. Any air should escape this way. If this still doesn't work than I'd look into a more serious matter. Newly rebuild engines get hotter faster, so they need to be cooled better as well. Make sure you fan shroud and fan are up to the task as well. Cruddy old radiators don't work that well either.

Addition; the previous owner said (not sure how well i believe him..) the engine was rebuilt 1k ago.. still applies with the "new engine" theory?

Thanks for everything guys.. i really do appreciate it.

No heater core, its non-existant, all the heating parts are taken out, except for the thermostat. The water pump, and intake manifold "ports" where the lines ran to the heater core have been plugged with just simple engine plugs.

Can I just take the thermostat out?.. seeing I don't need hot coolant in the first place? and should I bypass the old "ports" for the heater core (manifold to water pump) with a piece of tubing? or just leave it plugged with the brass or whatever inserts?

The water pump, and intake manifold "ports" where the lines ran to the heater core have been plugged, I dont think you can just plug these ports, You should try running a bypass pipe like I did>>>>http://i880.photobucket.com/albums/ac6/bigblock665/383stroaker.jpg, the hose loops off the pic but its just too long, you can use a shorter pipe, dont make it kink! And yes you can take the thermostat out, its only good in cold weather so your engine doesn't take too long to warm up.

probably need to burp the air out of the cooling system !!!

.

There are 10's of thousands of cars with the heater core removed and the lines plugged.
Do not even consider that has anything to do with the engine over heating this much:rolleyes: :screwup: :rolleyes:
When I lived in San Diego, there were ton's of us with the heater core removed and plugged on our daily drivers.

I was a big fan of a 160* therm when I drove on the street.
You might lose a touch of efficiency, but the added safety margin was worth it to me.
I would rather keep my heads a little cooler, and then when I hammer it, I'm safe.
I also ran without a therm, but I never went far, and only 70* or above.
I never had a problem without running a therm.

As mentioned, is the radiator up to the job. Enough volume, no blockages, no corrosion ect ect.

Good luck,

.

Okay, quick and to the point, shooting for a direct response :)

1. Thermostat.. take it out? leave it in? replace with the $6 "high flow" from the parts store?

2. I'll try to burp out the air in event of an airlock, thank you.

3. Running a bypass, like bigblock655 has in his pic, what I'm also thinking, its not going to hurt anything to make sure, correct? couple bucks to do. Yes or no? I'm worried less about 10 bucks than 1800 on a rebuild.

4. Purchasing a "lever style" rad. cap. thanks.

5. "New rebuilds run hotter", only have a 1k on this motor, is 220 ish okay/normal?

6. Original fan and shroud on, along with electric cooling fan on radiator. Thanks.

7. Double checking timing, try to get it closer, also planning on swapping out old plugs with e3 diamondfire's.

Anything else?

1. Keep the thermostat.

2. yes, remove as much air from the system as possible.

3. Don't worry with the bypass, not necessary, just leave the holes plugged, all the extra loops of hose is just good for cluttering things up.


I've got the heater core removed on mine and all the holes are plugged with pipe plugs. This is in a 406 sbc making well over 400 hp in south Texas (it gets hot here). Mine has a 180 stat and never sees temps over 190.

If it runs over 200* consistently something isn't right.

1. Keep the thermostat.

2. yes, remove as much air from the system as possible.

3. Don't worry with the bypass, not necessary, just leave the holes plugged, all the extra loops of hose is just good for cluttering things up.


I've got the heater core removed on mine and all the holes are plugged with pipe plugs. This is in a 406 sbc making well over 400 hp in south Texas (it gets hot here). Mine has a 180 stat and never sees temps over 190.

If it runs over 200* consistently something isn't right.

Is a bypass not necessary? So your saying I could just plub the ports on the intake and water pump that go to the heater core? I thought you atleast had to have flow between these two points? If so I guess you lean something new everyday. Im gonna research this now, I wanna be sure.

Called my uncle, he's worked on cars for 35+ years. He says;

-Take the thermostat out (summer driving anyways)
-No bypass
-Doubts its air lock, as "it would come out when the temp housing was unhooked" but to attempt anyways, "whatever" he says.
-Retard timing, 12 is too high, should be around 4-7 max.
-Hook up Flex fan. and make sure the electric is blowing, not sucking.

It may also be a blockage somewhere, water pump internal prob., or even a kinked hose "doesnt hurt to check". I really have no idea what else it can be aside for the things mentioned. Good luck, hope you get it worked out.

Is a bypass not necessary? So your saying I could just plub the ports on the intake and water pump that go to the heater core? I thought you atleast had to have flow between these two points? If so I guess you lean something new everyday. Im gonna research this now, I wanna be sure.

research away ....it works for everyone else in the world...

If you're going to remove the thermostat, at least knock the center out of the old stat and install the ring. The ring will restrict the flow and help slow the flow through the radiator a little, aiding in cooling a little better.

I'm betting it's either a blockage in the radiator, a sticking thermostat, or a faulty water pump.

research away ....it works for everyone else in the world...

Looks like im wrong, my bad. Bypass not needed, just plug and go!:screwup: :screwup: :screwup:

If you're going to remove the thermostat, at least knock the center out of the old stat and install the ring. The ring will restrict the flow and help slow the flow through the radiator a little, aiding in cooling a little better.

I'm betting it's either a blockage in the radiator, a sticking thermostat, or a faulty water pump.
+1

1. Stick a 180 t-stat in it. Without 1, the longer you drive the hotter it will get and stay hot.

2. Dont worry about the bypass. Let 'em plugged.

3. I wouldnt retard your timing that far. There may be others here that disagree. The bone stock 305 in my Nova ran hot (210 ish) at 5*, I bumped the timing up to 14* (a member here advised me to do so) and it didnt run hot anymore, never goes past 190 no matter how hot it is outside or how long I drive it. Didnt make any other changes aside from timing.

New engines do run hotter than normal, just not as hot as yours. Replace your t-stat and rad cap, doublecheck your airflow through your rad. A quick way to do it is fire up the engine and let it idle (if you have an electric fan, turn it on). Take a rag or paper towel and put it on the grill in front of the radiator. If you have adequate airflow it should stick to the grill and should "peel" off like a piece of tape. A heavy sweatshirt sticks to mine.

I'm still betting you have a bad t-stat though. Good luck.

You are using normal rotation water pump, aren't you?

.

Something is definitely not right.
You have some kind of flow, volume, blockage issue of some kind??

.

A thermostat is also important because it allows time for the coolant to cool off in the radiator when closed. If not used, the hot coolant circulates back into the engine too quickly, resulting in higher than normal temps. It took me a long time to understand this concept, as I always thought the opposite.

not so. if the airflow through the radiator core is correct,, and everything is properly sized,, an engine will never heat up without a t-stat. the t-stat is designed to make/trap heat in the engine for warmup and maintain heat. the faster you circulate it,, the more it cools the coolant,, providing you have ample airflow through the radiator. fact.
andy

The water pump, and intake manifold "ports" where the lines ran to the heater core have been plugged, I dont think you can just plug these ports, You should try running a bypass pipe like I did>>>>

the sbc has the "bypass made into the passenger side head and block deck. it bypasses through "extra" hole in the passenger side water pump mounting gasket.
blocking the heater hoses will not effect bypas whatsoever.
fact.
andy

oh,, stop circulating the water alltogether and tell me what happens??? or lower the airflow across/through the radiator core?
andy

oh,, stop circulating the water alltogether and tell me what happens???
andy

heck ......im so old i have saw old cars that don't even run a water pump that are liquid cooled. :):):)

Follow my list and you can't go wrong. I have 45+ years of experince with all kinds of problems with all kinds of machines.

heck ......im so old i have saw old cars that don't even run a water pump that are liquid cooled. :):):)

he he,, gotta love it. my lawnmower still works like that!! lots of oil in there.
andy

the sbc has the "bypass made into the passenger side head and block deck. it bypasses through "extra" hole in the passenger side water pump mounting gasket.
blocking the heater hoses will not effect bypas whatsoever.
fact.
andy

Noted, Thanx andy... Ill be taking off my bypass hose since it not needed.

Thabx again for the correction

Joe.

The myth about water speed, surfaces again. "Slowing the coolant down so it cools better", is a complete fallacy. Any basic understanding of thermodynamics will quickly dismiss the idea. Not going to get into it, other than to say, its entirely BS.

Removing the 'stat isn't a great idea, its there for a reason, to get the engine up to temp quickly because cold loose fitting parts wear quickly, and thick oil is hard to pump and is designed to lubricate at running temp. A properly working 'stat isn't enough of a restriction to cause any over heating issues. Take it out, test it in boiling water, and put it back. If you really want to do something to it, drill an 1/8" hole near the edge to let air out when you fill the system.

Like Andy and Louich said, a SBC bypass is built into the block. No real need for a heater or any other 'bypass'.

A cooling system isn't rocket science. Working w/p, turning the right way.
Rad that isn't plugged, if in doubt, buy the cheap one in the sticky.
Working thermostat, and full of coolant.