Hi All,

I’m a new member to this site but long time fan of the Camaro. First, let me say bravo for all the information you’ve accumulated here. I’ve enjoying your posts, especially those pertaining to factory originality and project progress.

Owning my share of 2nd generation Camaros through the years I’ve somehow managed to hold on to a ’70 Z. Purchased in ’77 and literally parked in boxes since ’78 undergoing a off and on (more off than on) restoration.

I have some questions that I hope someone can help me with. I have the POP and know about the standard decoding that’s out there. Codes match those on the car, casting numbers and casting dates fall within the build date of 4/70; however, there are a couple of things that I’ve been scratching my head on for sometime. First, there is no VIN on the block. When I had the motor out I looked at every square inch of the surface. Nothing on the deck below the alternator or casting surface above the oil filter, only the motor code VO324CTB on the deck. Of course this may be explained simply by a worker forgetting to do so, perhaps a broken tool, etc. Can anyone help with this? This next one is a little more perplexing. The transmission is stamped with the car’s VIN and the code shown on the POP, POM07. This a date of August and the car’s build in April, also see the attached link posted on the same issue. Lastly, the POP doesn’t show that it should have PS. But it does, it has the little yellow inspection sticker, correct hoses, clips, pump, and brackets. Are there dates that can be decoded some ware on the unit?

I appreciate any help. Thanks, Scott











http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1577103#post1577103

Wow. Sounds like the stamper had issues........Is your POP original and not a botched up reproduction? Probably oroginal if you had the car and POP since '78. The VIN derivative stamp down by the oil filter can be very hard to see. Take a closer look there.

Thanks for your reply. Believe me, I looked. It was known at time when I had motor out in '85 that that the VIN was sometime stamped by the oil filter. I remember searching a clean, boiled block back then, and nothing. And nothing fishy about the POP, it's original, it came with car, and is for the car.

Its pretty common to have lots of screw ups associated with these cars. Their system back then was less than mediocre.

Hi All,

I’m a new member to this site but long time fan of the Camaro. First, let me say bravo for all the information you’ve accumulated here. I’ve enjoying your posts, especially those pertaining to factory originality and project progress.

Owning my share of 2nd generation Camaros through the years I’ve somehow managed to hold on to a ’70 Z. Purchased in ’77 and literally parked in boxes since ’78 undergoing a off and on (more off than on) restoration.

I have some questions that I hope someone can help me with. I have the POP and know about the standard decoding that’s out there. Codes match those on the car, casting numbers and casting dates fall within the build date of 4/70; however, there are a couple of things that I’ve been scratching my head on for sometime. First, there is no VIN on the block. When I had the motor out I looked at every square inch of the surface. Nothing on the deck below the alternator or casting surface above the oil filter, only the motor code VO324CTB on the deck. Of course this may be explained simply by a worker forgetting to do so, perhaps a broken tool, etc. Can anyone help with this? This next one is a little more perplexing. The transmission is stamped with the car’s VIN and the code shown on the POP, POM07. This a date of August and the car’s build in April, also see the attached link posted on the same issue. Lastly, the POP doesn’t show that it should have PS. But it does, it has the little yellow inspection sticker, correct hoses, clips, pump, and brackets. Are there dates that can be decoded some ware on the unit?

I appreciate any help. Thanks, Scott











http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1577103#post1577103
MULSANE BLUE, The P-O-P will not show if a car has P/S, it shows drive train components and carb, and thats pretty much it. On your trans numbers...I am sorry to say I don't have a clue, if it is indeed the original trans for the car. Mike:happy:

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww161/kmas5/IMG_0001.jpg

I found the answer to my transmission question from the attached link. The first number in date code is the model year, not the year the case was stamped. So in my case, POMO7 indicates that the trans is for a '70 model built on August 7, 1969.

http://www.5speeds.com/muncie2.htm

^ weren't they still building 69s untill december 69. so that tranny would have sat a long time before install which is unuasual

Welcome to NastyZ.

Try this, it has worked for me in the past:

Make sure you are in a low light area, under a carport or something. Take the rough area by the oil filter and rub white chalk on it. LIGHTLY remove the excess chalk with a rag. Take a digital camera and take several pics at different angles WITH THE FLASH.

Jerry MacNeish taught me this trick, and if it was a light stamp, it will actually show up in the pictures when your naked eye cannot see the stamp.

BTW MULSANE BLUE = COOL (see pic at left) :)

Good Luck.

In any case, I *think* they used the same gang stamp on the tranny as the engine, so the VIN stamp should match the font and size of the tranny stamp.

Rich

I have a 72Z motor without a VIN number either. Built a couple of days before the strike

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq29/a550550/dscn03022.jpg


http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq29/a550550/DSCN03042-1.jpg

^ weren't they still building 69s untill december 69. so that tranny would have sat a long time before install which is unuasual

Good point. I've read other posts on this forum questioning the same date discrepancies concerning other components. One recently uncovered two cars with distributors having the same "wrong" P.N. and date that preceded the car's build with a similar time gap mystery. Unusual, I can't say; none the less very interesting.

I have a 72Z motor without a VIN number either. Built a couple of days before the strike

http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq29/a550550/dscn03022.jpg


http://i430.photobucket.com/albums/qq29/a550550/DSCN03042-1.jpg

Thanks for the post. It's nice to see that I maybe am not alone.

I can't help with the decoding, but I can welcome you to the board! Sounds like a nice 2nd gen to have! Good luck!

Welcome to NastyZ.

Try this, it has worked for me in the past:

Make sure you are in a low light area, under a carport or something. Take the rough area by the oil filter and rub white chalk on it. LIGHTLY remove the excess chalk with a rag. Take a digital camera and take several pics at different angles WITH THE FLASH.

Jerry MacNeish taught me this trick, and if it was a light stamp, it will actually show up in the pictures when your naked eye cannot see the stamp.

BTW MULSANE BLUE = COOL (see pic at left) :)

Good Luck.

In any case, I *think* they used the same gang stamp on the tranny as the engine, so the VIN stamp should match the font and size of the tranny stamp.

Rich

Thanks Rich. I'll give it a try.

BTW nice Z. Do you have any other pics posted somewhere? Is that Bright Blue interior I see?:)

I can't help with the decoding, but I can welcome you to the board! Sounds like a nice 2nd gen to have! Good luck!

Thanks for the welcome Carcrazed. I've had it since '77, apart since '78. It's funny how they don't go back together quite as quickly. :confused:

Its pretty common to have lots of screw ups associated with these cars. Their system back then was less than mediocre.

More like resourceful production managers. I'm sure GM had a motto similar to Ford's "Paint It Blue and Ship It Through!":p

Thanks Rich. I'll give it a try.

BTW nice Z. Do you have any other pics posted somewhere? Is that Bright Blue interior I see?:)


Yes, it is. But the seat covers are bad repops, before they got decent with them.
I have several here:

http://www.69lm1.com/70copo/


http://www.69lm1.com/70copo/back.JPG


http://www.69lm1.com/70copo/70zvinstamp.JPG

http://www.69lm1.com/70copo/3.JPG

Looks like my dream driveway.

I have 71 Z28-Nevada Silver (current project)
I have 71 Shortbox C10
I want 70-72 Monte Carlo

I have 5 total vehicles now--My wife has none (she can call her own) Selling her on me getting a 6th for me (Monte Carlo) is a long shot

Rich, Sweet ride. With the COPO set-up, did also come with the front spoiler? My lower valance doesn't have provision holes and wondered if they hand drilled at the factory when the option was ordered.

I like the '69 link. Love those shots of old dealerships!

I also had a question about your lower dash. The bright bead running under the heater controls and below the radio, is it chromed or painted? I'm trying to find out if it was done either way for the '70. Mine was chromed but has faded and worn and would like to refinish. At what they want to charge for rechroming I'll consider painting if "correct".

Here's a old pic of mine when I was working on it about ten years ago. Since then about the only thing I've done is to get the doors on and glass back in.

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww161/kmas5/IMG.jpg

More like resourceful production managers. I'm sure GM had a motto similar to Ford's "Paint It Blue and Ship It Through!":p

Ain't that the truth! Hence why so many parts that "shouldn't be in" particular cars are original to them. My brothers 68 mustang was actually built DURING the Dearborn Michigan plant strike for the 68 production year. It came from the factory with a Shelby American engine in it and it was just a GT coupe. Yes the block has his cars VIN number stamped in it as well, so its original. We will never truly know the story behind why, but it's possible it is one of the 14 or so Mexican race coupes that didn't get shipped to Mexico, or more likely the "scabs" working the line simply threw an engine in it that was sitting in the back corner. We talked to an old timer that worked the line in Dearborn from 64-75, and he said the "scabs" were literally just throwing parts in the cars to get them off the line and get work done. So its much more likely it happened because of this reason than it being one of the rare shelby coupe cars. Heck it even had to stupid rear traction bars on it that the Shelby cars came with and the 10 spoke 68 Shelby wheels with the Cobra in the hub cap on it when we bought it. We were too young and dumb at that point to even fathom they were original to the car and sold them.
Its a fun car and the little 289 with the Shelby Le Mans cam can REALLY get up and go. It saw 7500rpm more than once in our high school days. :eek:

You've got a really nice car there, especially with all the paperwork. My dads 70 is a real Z28 but I have yet to find a build sheet or any paperwork in it, just the cowl tag and the other obvious give away pieces for proof.

The picture of your POP is a bit difficult to read, but they all are because things are backwards. It looks to me that you have 13 in the option code section. Does the car have power brakes? With power steering and power brakes, it should have 113. With just power brakes it should be 13. With just power steering it should be 1 3. It would have been very easy for them to mistakenly stamp 13 instead of 1 3 with the space between the numbers.

Gary, once again, you are correct. My mistake, forgot to check that page in the assembly manual.:eek: Mike

Thanks guys, I believe you provide enough info to answer my questions. I've had the car since '77 and lost tack of some its history over the years as to some of the thing I've added/replaced. It's a Z, so it would have power brakes from the factory, as it does today. What was throwing me off was the ps. From your explanation, the POP is telling me that it originally came with manual. Evidently at some point a ps set-up added, I just can't recall doing it myself. If I were to revert back to manual, what parts would I need besides the box? Are the linkage, control arm, rag coupling, etc. the same between manual and ps? If so, anyone with numbers or pics? Thanks!

In 1973 power steering was a forced option when the 350 engine was ordered. I ordered a 73 RS camaro with the L48 option put did not order power steering. When I picked the car up the dealer informed me that the factory would not build it without power steering with that engine. They charged me 50% of the price being that they didn't catch it when I ordered the car.
Maybe in 70 it was a forced option also........

Hi Scott and Welcome to the NastyZ site.....I think I'm the one who started the link you referenced on the Mucie date stamps...and to be honest, I'm still not completely clear.

As for the POP, it looks like Gary is all over the code issue...but PB would be standard for a 1970Z and PS was an option. I have a 1970 standard Z with manual steering and everyone I've talked to with experience said the manual close ration box is very difficult to steer unless you're rolling pretty well. Mine is still a project, so I can't attest to that fact....but might explain why someone may have converted yours to PS....

Either way, love your car...what's the build week?...I've got a 1970 RS/Z28 Mulsanne Blue/Black stripe that I just finished last June after a 3 year rebuild. It originally had the tandrd blue interior, (715), but someone had already converted it to black, so I kept it. Try finding nice blue interior panels...

Rich - looking at the interior of you '70 COPO, is that a replacement dash pad? I thought the dashpads were also blue?...or is it just the lighting and angle?

Hi Scott and Welcome to the NastyZ site.....I think I'm the one who started the link you referenced on the Mucie date stamps...and to be honest, I'm still not completely clear.

As for the POP, it looks like Gary is all over the code issue...but PB would be standard for a 1970Z and PS was an option. I have a 1970 standard Z with manual steering and everyone I've talked to with experience said the manual close ration box is very difficult to steer unless you're rolling pretty well. Mine is still a project, so I can't attest to that fact....but might explain why someone may have converted yours to PS....

Either way, love your car...what's the build week?...I've got a 1970 RS/Z28 Mulsanne Blue/Black stripe that I just finished last June after a 3 year rebuild. It originally had the tandrd blue interior, (715), but someone had already converted it to black, so I kept it. Try finding nice blue interior panels...

Rich - looking at the interior of you '70 COPO, is that a replacement dash pad? I thought the dashpads were also blue?...or is it just the lighting and angle?

My '69 Norwood Z/28 has a manual steering box (it would be fast ratio) and while the steering geometry is different from a 2nd gen and the low-end torque of a 302 is not that of an LT-1 I can say, from '25 years of living with this car, that it is a PITA to park and manuever at low speeds. Especially with wider radials. I used to run the Polyglas GT bias ply tires on it....they were better at low speeds but followed grooves in the road so badly at speed that I wore myself out trying to stay on top of the manual box.

I'll be curious to see how your experience compares l16pilot

Rich - looking at the interior of you '70 COPO, is that a replacement dash pad? I thought the dashpads were also blue?...or is it just the lighting and angle?

It is black. I have not checked that close, but the seat covers are repops. I'll look closer this weekend, and check for the holes for the front spoiler while I am at it.

Rich

Thanks for the input guys, and for the nice greetings.

l16pilot,

Only 3 years! I'm going on about 30! It's good to hear that they actually go back together. Any pictures?

Mines a Norwood third week of March car. Yea, it has that beautiful bright blue, but pain in :mad: to find nice plastic, interior. I'm going to keep looking for the couple of sail panels with my name on them before resorting to dyeing black ones. Maybe if the bright blue guys band together we could convince the outfit reproducing everything in black to pop out enough sets in the blue for everyone.

I grew up in Anderson Indiana where they made all of those parts at Guide Lamp; also known later as Delphi. My Dad was an engineer then and recalls doing some work on the molds. I also work there in the early ‘80’s and found out that the seat-back molds were still in the plant but everything else had evidently been scarped. I assume the seat-backs are long gone too. Delphi moved out of Anderson as did Delco-Remey in the mid 2000's.Delco made all the starters, relays, alternators and horns to name a few components.

To All,
After following discussion found on this board, my transmission code makes since with respect to the date sequencing. It’s a March ‘70 car build with an August ’69 built transmission. The only thing left to answer, which some have brought up, is large gap between dates. Assuming the transmission had an equal chance of going into other ’70 vehicles requiring the same code, one explanation may be that production orders weren’t timed properly. Maybe lags in car production caused a surplus in transmissions before the forecast was straightened out? One thought may be the delay in the ’70 Camaro had this affected. Just a thought….


Restoration Help Questions!

Does anyone know where to get sheet material similar in appearance to the tar-base sound deadener originally found on interior floorboards? Has anyone seen or used one of kits commonly sold? If so, how do they compare?

Also, has anyone found a successful method replicating the appearance of factory seam-sealer used in trunks, on firewall, and or generally anywhere sheet metal was joined and spot-welded?

Scott, as far as dates go, I do know of a 1970 L78 Camaro with a June assembly date, with a November of 69 date coded engine. The owner has the POPto back it up. These early dates in later built cars may not be the norm, but certainly are more common than you would think. My 07E 70 Z28 has a April 4th dated alt and a second weak of Feb Carb.

The floor sound deadner you are looking for is available thru Classic. They show "paper backed as original" but I have never used it. I have used the cheaper version in a couple of cars, and would not recomend it. You have to use the picture in the cataloge to see which piece goes where.

As far as seam sealer goes, 3M makes the brushable stuff in a can. You apply it using a brush, just like they did in the factory. Don't try to get too perfect, because it was never that nice.

I hope you have an assembly manual, after being apart for 30 years!:) Mike:bowtie:

Scott,

Attached is the photobucket link to my 04D 70 RS/Z28....they're in reverse order so the two shots posted near the top are from the 08 Carlisle
GM Nats. This is the car that has PS and it's a pleasure to drive.

http://s293.photobucket.com/albums/mm62/l16pilot/1970RS-Z28/?start=all

I also have an 03C-build standard 70 Z28 ex-race car, Forest Green/White stripes, 4-speed, 4.10 rear and standard green interior....but being an ex-race car, most of the original green interior plastic was gone...but I really lucked out and bought almost an entire green interior from a fellow NastyZ member who was parting a car out in Alaska...the interior parts are really nice, (I guess AK is kind to hard plastic :) )....even the seat belts. Wasn't cheap...actually the price was very fair...it was the shipping that cost a bunch, but now I can redo my 03C Z28 with teh original green interior...

Keep looking.....and post "wanted" threads on this website....the parts are still out there...hope you can get lucky like I did.

Good luck on your rebuild and yeah, I know three years does not compare to 30, but it was an intensive 3 year effort...and the closer I got to being finished, the more intense the work got. I ended up finishing the car 1 hour before I got in and drove it to the GM Nats in Carlisle, (150 miles each way), with less than 10 miles on the odometer....

Mike, Thanks for the info on the underlay and sealant. I checked and Classic still has the underlay. This dated thing is interesting. Off hand, do you know how many L78 motors Chevrolet produced during the '70 model year, I’m assuming it had other applications?

l16pilot, Thanks for providing the link. Seeing how your Z progressed was like looking at mine in the future. What type of paint did you use?


BTY: I still have my original blue dash. It's painted except in the area surrounding the gages.

Mike, Thanks for the info on the underlay and sealant. I checked and Classic still has the underlay. This dated thing is interesting. Off hand, do you know how many L78 motors Chevrolet produced during the '70 model year, I’m assuming it had other applications?

l16pilot, Thanks for providing the link. Seeing how your Z progressed was like looking at mine in the future. What type of paint did you use?


BTY: I still have my original blue dash. It's painted except in the area surrounding the gages.
Nova and Chevelle also offered the L78 in 1970 - not certain on production numbers.

l16pilot has it right: colored interiors (i.e. not black) are a pain to set up (tracking down parts and all) but they are really, really cool when done and well worth the effort.

Scott - I used PPG's DBU3217 base coat. Actually, PPG has two different "alternates" to the code 26 Mulsanne Blue...I got samples of both and chose the 3217 because the other had a "greenish" hue to it. Compared to Dupont's version of Mulsanne Blue, the PPG is slightly lighter, but I like it...and I chose PPG because I'm familiar with it....and that's what my painter uses...;)

I agree with Flowjoe...the original colored interiors are cool...I kept my RS/Z28 black because it had already been converted and finding original blue parts...well, I might still be searching...but don't give up..at least you wont' be bidding against me.:D

1970 Chevelle

L78 - 2,144 (dropped when 454 engine was made available in late 1969).

L89 - 18