hey yall, i have a 1979 camaro that im rebuilding and i will be building a performance motor to put in it at some point in the near future. it is a stock auto car with a turbo 350 trans. i would like to convert it to a 4 speed. i do not like auto cars. especially if the car has a built motor as mine will. i just have a few questions and would like everyone's opinion on the subject.
does anybody know arround how much this will cost me if my car nut friends and i do all the work? i need everything required to convert from auto to manual. clutch matser cylender, tranny, clutch, linkage, pedal assembly, flywheel, new radiator shifter, ect...
and how much custom work(cutting tranny tunnel, mounting mastercylender for clutch, mounting clutch pedal, ect.) will be needed to do this?
thats all for now!

thanks everybody that comments,

camaro kid (aka Russell)

Hey Russel,

Welcome to the best Camaro Board on the internet! If you do a search on this subject in the trans & driveline topics section, you will find a multitude of info and costs.

I just did this this spring, and couldn't be happier "rowing through the gears" again. It's not hard to do, no special tools required, and by the way, it's all mechanical. You do not need to use a hydralic clutch.

You may want to consider a 5 speed. Lots of guys on here have done that. It will cost you more. Just depends on what you want to end up with.

Good luck with your project, and again, welcome!!

thanks for the warm welcome!

The easiest way to convert would be to find another parts car that has a manual tranny. Then get all the pedals, brackets, and hardware in one place to convert. Sometimes you can find a donor car in a wrecking yard. Parts should fit from any Second Gen Camaro or Firebird.

I know they sell complete kits for 5-speeds, i believe they do for 4-speeds aswell. They are selling rebuilt Muncie's from Classic idustries, i believe. Saginaw's are good aswell, weeker, but very nice none the less.

Oh and the Saginaws are MUCH more common, the parts that go along witht hem aswell from the junk yards, but new the muncies might have more aftermarket parts to come by.

converting to a 4 speed is mostly a bolt in installation, about the only modification is just cutting a hole in the floor for the shifter. The cheapest way to do the conversion would be to find a donor 4spd Camaro or Firebird and just transfer all the parts to your car. Unfortunately original 4 speed cars can be hard to find or somebody has already stripped off all the good parts. But now just about all of the parts you need are available as brand new reproduction parts. Here is a list of parts and average prices if you are using mostly new parts.


Borg Warner Super T-10 transmission (Rebuilt) $700-$900
Borg Warner Super T-10 transmission (Used) $200-$400
Clutch set $220
Flywheel $144
4sp console (used) $75
Brake/clutch pedals $74
Clutch Fork $20
Clutch pedal linkage $129
Hurst shifter $229
Hurst shifter linkage $129
Shifter hump $64

you should be able to use your crossmember and driveshaft from the automatic

Get a catalog from www.npdlink.com they have a warehouse in Charlotte, so shipping should be quick and cheap to Greensboro

Brian

Oh and the Saginaws are MUCH more common, the parts that go along witht hem aswell from the junk yards.


The JUNKYARDS are where all Saginaws really need to stay.........No use for them in any performance car.

this is just what I want to do to lol, funny to find this here.

If it's all mechanical then there would be no need for a clutch master cylinder would there?

In that case for me all I would need would be the pedals and clutch linkage right?(If i don't care about appearance) It would be great if someone did a build thread or had pictures of the way it looks when done and where everything goes

I know they sell complete kits for 5-speeds, i believe they do for 4-speeds aswell. They are selling rebuilt Muncie's from Classic idustries, i believe. Saginaw's are good aswell, weeker, but very nice none the less.

Especially the M-22 "Rock Crusher"! I'd like to own and beef one up :happy:

http://www.classicchevy5speed.com/ ...i might sell my Borg Warner Super T-10, that is rebuilt, and has powder coated cases , to get a Tremec TKO 5 or 6 speed setup. ....Saginaws are very weak...stay away from those...

About a month ago I saw an old T-10 and bellhousing on ebay that was about an hour from me.I emailed him and told him I had an 80 Camaro that I would like to change from an auto.
I ask if he would happen to have some pedals etc.He said he was parting out a 75 and that is what the trans came out of and I could take everything I needed.
I went ahead and bought it since I got everything with a low mileage clutch.I paid 500$.
I haven,t installed it yet.I put a 2004r in that I had just see if I liked it........and I do!
So I might just save the four speed for another project.
By the way what do you guys mean by four speed hump?

I am doing the conversion in a little while I am picking up a whole bunch of parts today. I constantly search for parts for this conversion....if you wnat when I find really good prices I can tell you.
Right now I believe I will be able to do the conversion with used parts for around $900 then subtract all the automatic stuff I am going to sell.

Here is a thread I started awhile back..it has some useful info...dont mind the BS here and there.

http://nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=78059&highlight=manual+conversion

The JUNKYARDS are where all Saginaws really need to stay.........No use for them in any performance car.

read this statement from a true and tried builder...

Read below: Directly from m/r racing:

This is a blanket note for anyone requesting the strengths of Muncies vs. Saginaws, etc. I realistically get this question on average once a day. I can not say exactly this will work for this or what will positively not break under what circumstances, and really no one else can either. I can however state a few proven examples of what works. This is a brief note of all the strengths, pull from it what you want.
We build over 300 transmissions a year, 85% of them are circle track, which means about 50 of them are built specifically for street applications. We build Saginaws, Muncies and Borg Warner Super T-10s. If you would surf onto the website of Richmond Gear at www.richmondgear.com you can see they do have a torque rating for thier Borg Warner Super T-10s. These numbers really don't mean much, because they are rated for 286-375ft/lbs of torque. These are rated on a different scale than engines, plus all the different variables make it impossible to compare apples to apples (i.e. holeshots, tires, gear ratios, driver habits, etc). If those ratings were comparable, it would mean the typical mild build up Chevy small block with 375ft/lbs of torque would tear through anything Richmond makes.
Here is what we know. We have Saginaws in Super Late Models pushing over 600hp, 10 inch circle track slicks, that I am freshening for some of them, 3 and 4 seasons worth on the original tranny. Generally, if you have a small block, and hard to mild street tires, 90% of the time a Saginaw will hold up. If you are doing holeshots every stop sign, and a couple brake stands per night, it will break, and so will an M20 or M21 Muncie in time as well. Many factory small block Camaros (even Z28's) came standard with the Saginaw from '74-'84. If you are running a Big Block, you should have a Borg Warner ST-10 or an M22 Muncie. An M22 Muncie with the new gears, and a steel midplate is about the strongest 4 speed available, I have a few guys running these with 502's and they are holding without a problem.

Plus with the m22 yoiu get that nice wine of the gears. =P

read this statement from a true and tried builder...

Read below: Directly from m/r racing:
Many factory small block Camaros (even Z28's) came standard with the Saginaw from '74-'84.

Not completely true. No Second Gen Z28 got the Saginaw. The Muncie was used through the 73 model year on Z28s, and a few were left over for some 74 Chevy cars. I haven't seen one in a 74. For 74, 77, 78,79, 80, and 81, the Z28 would have a Borg Warner 4 speed.
This statement could be correct for the Third Gens from 82-84 because they were all 305 powered and had 7.5" rear diffs, so why put a strong tranny in them?

alot of good info i was thinking about going 6 speed

A six speed will cost you double or more compared to a 4 speed swap.

I think the saginaws are supposed to be fine for people who race in 4th gear only (oval track etc...). But for drag racing I dunno. I have one in my '79 behind a 383, it is holding up so far but I am gonna swap it out before I break it. I've even powershifted it a few times. I think using a well adjusted hurst shifter helps.

I beat the hell out of mine and I have only replaced it once. Makes me feel nice when I can replace it with a rebuild for under $600.

A six speed will cost you double or more compared to a 4 speed swap.
True. But I swapped 4 for 6 and would do it again.

True. But I swapped 4 for 6 and would do it again.

But when you dont have a full time job (like me) getting a 6 speed aint happening for another 10 years. Unless I win mega millions or strike the big time. Meaning most likely not for a long time.

Dont rub it in. I am all excited I just got a 4 speed and parts last week for my auto-manual swap. I have never had a manual and I already know I am going to like it more than the auto.

A six speed will cost you double or more compared to a 4 speed swap.

This is true but, in my opinion, if you can swing the coin, well worth it ;) ! There is nothing like having an overdrive to keep your highway revs down.

I installed a BW Super T-10 back in 1992. Then Christmas 1994, the Richmond Gear 6-sp went in. Its an awesome transmission. Light years better and more fun than the 4-sp that I had. Of course my 4-sp was being shifted with a worn out Hurst shifter :rolleyes: . The ROD 6-sp came with a sweet shifter from a company called Long. Very nice. Spherical rod ends (heim joints, I think.) Very nice!

Fast forward to today; I've been driving my internal rail T-56 6-sp in my 2002 WS6 Trans Am. My Z28 needs an aftermarket version of this tranny. Its just a matter of time before the ROD goes and I move the tranny into the 21st century. T-56. Now thats a smooth transmission and I love it!