View Full Version : Your opinion on these 2 crate engines...


RePhil
11-21-2007, 01:32:06 AM
If you had to choose between the 2 crate engines below, which would you go with? Please consider all specs given and price. I'm having a hard time picking between the 2! :confused:

Any and all comments/discussion about them will be greatly appreciated. I need to decide by Thanksgiving in order to get the prices shown.


YearOne 350 crate engine (part # CT350PC1)

Price: $2679 shipped

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5125/ct350pc1ls4.jpg

·Horsepower: 400+
·Torque: 400+ ft/lbs
·Compression ratio: 9.5:1
·Dyno-tested: Yes, includes balancer and 14" flexplate
·Dyno sheet: Included with engine's output
·Vacuum produced: 12hg @ 800RPM
·Recommended fuel: 92 octane
·Max recommended RPM- 6000
·Block: Seasoned 4-bolt iron
·Crankshaft: Nodular iron
·Pistons: Hypereutectic
·Connecting rods: Powdered metal
·Camshaft- Hydraulic roller
·Valve lift:.520"
·Duration @ .050" (int/exh): 218deg/228deg
·Rocker arms: 1.6:1 ratio
·Cylinder heads: Ported Vortec
·Valves: Stainless steel 2.02 int/1.60 exh
·Valve springs: Heavy duty
·Bore x Stroke: 4.030" x 3.48"
·Intake manifold: Dual-plane aluminum
·Oil pan, timing cover, valve covers included
·Engine fasteners: High tensile strength
·Warranty: 12 month/12,000 miles



Blueprint Engines 383 crate engine (part # BP3830CT)

Price: $2889 shipped

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/5456/blueprintcu6.png


Horsepower:
405

Torque:
440

Compression Ratio:
9.5 to 1

Camshaft:
.487Int / .508 Exh & 234 Int / 244 Exh duration @ .050 - 110 degree lobe sep.

Ignition Timing:
13 to 16 Degree Initial / 34 Degree Total

Block:
4 bolt main block
Passenger side dipstick
Square and parallel decked
Align honed main bearing bore
Cylinders honed on computer controlled machine to within .0002 straightness and roundness
Cylinders are sonic tested for thickness

Rotating Assembly:
New SCAT cast crankshaft
Keith Black Hypereutetic pistons
Chevy heavy beam rods with 150,000 psi bolts
Hastings Moly rings
Balanced rotating assembly
Melling high volume oil pump
Flat tappet hydraulic lifter camshaft
Heavy duty double roller timing set

Cylinder Heads:
New Cast iron "vortec" heads
1.25 diameter valve springs
Hardened retainers and springs
2.02 swirl polished intake valves
1.60 swirl polished exhaust valves
Hardened push rods

A Ton Of Extras:
Professional Products dual plane satin finish intake manifold
9.5 to 1 compression
New chrome valve covers
Brass freeze plugs
Dyno tested – and shipped with results
Comes with 30 month / 50,000 mile warranty

ZS10
11-21-2007, 05:17:09 AM
If I had to take one it would be the top one for the roller cam.

But honestly, I'd spend more and buy a used LSx , than bother messing with a conventional sb.

Dirt Reynolds
11-21-2007, 05:17:45 AM
They both look good -- I can understand your dilemma. The torque of the 383 would probably sway me to that engine over the 350 with the GM 'HOT' cam. Having ran a 413ci small block with ported Vortecs and a hyd FT cam with very similar specs -- 234/244 .488"/.510" 114° LSA -- I'd have to say that engine will really rip. I'd go for the 383 if it was me.

torquejunky
11-21-2007, 06:16:02 AM
If I had to pick I'd go with #2 I love my 383. Have you considered getting a short block and then you can hand pick everything else like your cam, heads, intake, etc?

Lowend
11-21-2007, 08:33:37 AM
#2 is too cheap... they cut some corners somewhere

shawntmartin
11-21-2007, 08:37:28 AM
Tough call, I love the roller cam. But I love the torque of the 383. The first engine has ported heads so a bigger cam might wake it up. I'd like to see what the 1st engine would do with the 2nd engines cam specs. I wonder why the 2nd engine isn't producing more HP with those cubes and that cam. Where does your stall converter stall at?. That 2nd cam is substantially bigger than what a stock converter can handle, I would think. So do you have to spend a few hundred more for another converter? Also it doesn't come with a balancer and flexplate so add that in the difference. A stall, balancer, and flexplate can add another $500 or so.


Lowend, yea, thats cheap!

Mwilson
11-21-2007, 09:45:48 AM
#2 for sure

kik_start
11-21-2007, 09:47:05 AM
#2 for sure

No replacement for displacement...right? ;)

71 Z27 LS3
11-21-2007, 10:38:01 AM
Number 2 more cubes the better.

Lowend
11-21-2007, 11:13:18 AM
#2 costs about half of what it should, I'm telling you; it's not a good buy.
A good 383 should cost $4.5-$6K done right

Damon
11-21-2007, 11:31:42 AM
The 383 is going to be a more lumpy motor on the street than the 350, despite the extra cubes, becuase it uses a considerably bigger cam.

In every way the 383 will be a "wilder" combo, despite the peak HP being comparable between the two. The 383 uses unported heads, but more cubes and a bigger cam to hit the number. The 350 uses a smaller roller cam and ported heads to get it done. The 350 will have better street manners than the 383 but the bigger motor will still get to the other end of the track faster assuming both have properly matched drivetrains behind them.

It's definitely not an easy choice. I like to cruise my cars around town quite a bit so I put a high priority on good idle, good vacuum and good drivability without resorting to high stall converters (when I want to go fast I just open the nitrous bottle). I might actually go for the 350, myself. But your goals and expectations might be different.

RePhil
11-21-2007, 11:35:23 AM
My thoughts are pretty much the same as what has been posted. I know cheap and good doesn't go together, but I'm trying to keep the cost down as much as possible. These 2 engines seemed like the most bang for the buck I could find.

The extra torque of the 383 is what draws me to that engine. The cost benifit of the 350 is it's strong point, being it comes with the balancer/flexplate and it's cheaper.

Stall converter isn't an issue, as I'll be replacing it either way with something that stalls just a bit higher than stock.

I've thought about going short block and buying the separate parts, but it seems to be quite more expensive that way.

#2 is too cheap... they cut some corners somewhere

Lowend...

I'm going to be calling them today. What parts are you worried about? I would like to know so I can ask about them. I've read some good feedback about this company and how they stand behind their warranty. All the major retailers like Summit, JEgs, etc. carry them. The price I listed is through RockAuto as they are a few hundred cheaper.

mrdragster1970
11-21-2007, 11:42:03 AM
.

So they dyno'd the bottom one & then pulled off the balancer & flex plate??

The warranty sounds too good to be true at that price, as mentioned for a 383".

.

RePhil
11-21-2007, 11:46:14 AM
Damon brings up some good points that I neglected to mention...

My car will be strictly a street car. I like a nice sounding cam, but don't want a radical torque converter that will be slipping all the time around town either. Hoping to get by with a (cough) cheap over the counter converter rated just above stock. Will the 383 be too much for this?

The trans will be a typical th350 rated to handle 450hp.

Rear end is still up in the air. Car has the 3.08 limited slip right now, but would like to go somewhere around a 3.43, 3.55, etc. for a compromise between performance and cruising.

TooLateVTEC
11-21-2007, 12:02:45 PM
I like the 383.

Why does the 383 have a longer warranty than the 350? 12 month/12,000 miles to 30 month/50,000 miles?

RePhil
11-21-2007, 12:14:39 PM
The 383 is from a different company/builder than the 350.

shawntmartin
11-21-2007, 12:22:48 PM
Ask them what stall they recommend. I think you'll need more than just above stock. Check out those specs on any cam website and see what is recommended.

EXCELLENT POINT MADE..... they dynoed the 2nd engine and removed the balancer and flex plate? Is that fishy? Maybe they dynoed just one and for the rest they expect the same results.:confused:

Orange Terror
11-21-2007, 01:04:41 PM
I think I'd go for the 350, it will have better street manners, and the roller cam will be nice to have too. I also would be leery of the price on the 383 as well, though I do like that they are offering a longer warranty which says even if they did cut corners 3 years or 50k miles you will know if they did long before then too.

Still, the 383 is tempting but I think I'd still go with the 350 probably.

RePhil
11-21-2007, 01:28:04 PM
The 383 warranty is only for parts if you install it yourself.

Found out that the YearOne engine is made by High Tech Engines. Napa used to sell their engines.

I'm starting to lean towards the 350 for better street manners, cost, and now that I know it's a reputable builder.

Lowend
11-21-2007, 01:44:48 PM
Ok... you are getting the engine building speech

The engine parts market sucks for sellers; really good profit margin on most internal engine parts are 20% most are lower (Edelbrock parts are less than 10% a lot of the time). All of the builders are paying about the same for their parts...
This means that any time you see an engine being sold for significantly less than others that
1) There are components missing (ie flexplate, balancer, timing chain ect)
2) The builder is using inferior parts (Chinese or used)
3) The builder is cutting corners on assembly or machine work (crappy tolerances, non-balanced, non-honed cylinders)

shawntmartin
11-21-2007, 02:01:15 PM
An example is the Chinese intake they used on the 383. I'm not steering you away, but just be careful. I would take a 383 over a 350 anyday, but only if it was the same quality build. I did notice how the 383 list "new" heads, "new" crank, "new" covers, but they fail to put "new" beside the word "block". It does have good warranty though. So who knows....

BonzoHansen
11-21-2007, 02:44:59 PM
Where are you getting that price for the 383? I was going to say RockAuto carries them and 5% discount covers shipping. I looked it up for a Team Camaro guy on 11/2

Current RA discount code of "turbodiesel" offers additional 5% discount

Rockauto shipped $4132.41 with 5% discount $135.96 shipping from them to me.
http://info.rockauto.com/Marshall/DetailBluePrint.htm?BP3830CTC.gif
http://www.rockauto.com/catalog/x,carcode,1034738,parttype,733

Summit: $4,669.90 shipped with $10.95 handling charge and 169.00 shipping from them to me.
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=MLL-BP3830CTC


Which is like $1000 more then you have listed.

Dirt Reynolds
11-21-2007, 02:57:48 PM
I'd still go with the 383.

I do not believe that it's street manners will be worse than the 350 despite the cam difference. In fact, what I believe is that 383 will walk all over the 350, roller cam or no roller cam. There is just no getting around the fact that 3.75" stroke will make a heap more torque than the 350 and will accelerate the car much quicker. If you want a roller cam, buy the 383 and put in the roller sometime down the road. But like I posted earlier, I ran a 234/244 hyd cam with Vortecs and I was very pleased with the overall powerband and tremendous torque output. Granted, I had a bigger engine at 413ci, but the car weighed almost 3800 lbs with me in it and ran 12.15 launching off-idle on worn drag radials, 2800 stall cheapy B&M Torkmaster converter in the heat of July. If you have the choice between two similar engines, pick the one with the most cubes.

RePhil
11-21-2007, 03:09:47 PM
Where are you getting that price for the 383? I was going to say RockAuto carries them and 5% discount covers shipping. I looked it up for a Team Camaro guy on 11/2



Which is like $1000 more then you have listed.


The link you provided is for the fully dressed, or turn key crate. I'm looking at the one that doesn't include the carb, ignition, water pump, fuel pump, etc.

Do a part # search on the site for BP3830CT

$2,897.79 price
-$144.89 5% discount
$135.96 shipping

$2,888.86 Total cost

RePhil
11-21-2007, 03:16:07 PM
Also, I believe the block on both engines are used or reconditioned, not new.

shawntmartin
11-21-2007, 03:49:16 PM
Probably so.... Well, do the 383 and use the warranty if it falls apart. So you guys think the Vortecs and the CR is the reason this isn't making more HP? What would it take for this thing to make 475-500hp? AFRs and 11:1?

Twisted_Metal
11-21-2007, 04:01:50 PM
Interesting thread.... I'm on the hunt for a powere plant too and these both look like decent options. It's hard to compare from one supplier to the other with factors like warranty, flexplate, shipping, balancer thrown in for added financial confusion.

Me... I would lean towards the 350.
(383s are for mopars. ;) )

torquejunky
11-21-2007, 04:30:44 PM
I've thought about going short block and buying the separate parts, but it seems to be quite more expensive that way.
You can get a really decent 383 short blocks starting at about 1500 (CNC motorsports for example) and I've seen top end kits starting at 1200 then you'd just need to get the rockers, cam (some of them include cams) and timing set and of coarse balancer and whatever else you don't have. Summit/Jeg's has em starting at around 1500 with cam.
I found this one on ebay after about 5 minutes:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Small-Chevy-Top-End-Kit-Dart-Pro-1-Aluminum-Demon-Carb_W0QQitemZ300172707741QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33617QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Just about has everything even carb and shaft mount rockers. Maybe more than you are looking for but it gives you an idea that there are definitely some possibilities out there, start digging!
And this one as well:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/SBC-CHEVY-TOP-END-KIT-ALUMINUM-HEADS-ERSON-CAM-VERYNICE_W0QQitemZ270189153936QQihZ017QQcategoryZ33620QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

RePhil
11-21-2007, 04:31:30 PM
I'm now one step closer to going with the 350. The engine is indeed built by High-Tech Engines and is their part # CH350PC05. More good news, YearOne under-estimates the power a little! :D Hi-Tech rates it at around 415HP and 440TQ. YearOne plays it safe by just listing 400+ because each engine's specs come out a little different from the dyno run.

Here's the page from High-Tech's catalog for the engine....

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/philtheskipper/1981%20Z28/pcengine001Large.jpg


Here's a thread from a Corvette forum about the engine...

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1800506



Also, the price I quoted for the YearOne engine is using the Thanksgiving Day 15% discount I saw posted online. I'm assuming the code will work. ;)

78CAMAROINSC
11-21-2007, 07:45:09 PM
I've been trying to decide on an engine myself to. they both seem ok. ubt i might would get the 350 for a street car if it was never going to the strip it would just depend.

RePhil
11-21-2007, 10:28:23 PM
I should of known it was too good to be true. :mad:

The YearOne 350 is not eligible for discounts.

New price is $3127.50 shipped.


Soooo, that 383 is looking a lot better.

pdq67
11-21-2007, 11:29:53 PM
I HAVE to say this!!

Nowaday's, for just the price of an old 454 P/U core motor w/ a bad crank and an inexpensive forged rotating assembly from places like Ohio Crankshaft Company and S-O-M, you can come up w/ a 496 BB for less than $4,000 that will make an EASY 550 hp!!

Now, all this said, I do figure both engines will be dandies, but do you wanna grow in the future, then buy the 383!!

It AIN'T a race engine and isn't being sold as such so should do you FINE, imho...

pdq67

PS., and I have right at $38 to $4,000 in my right at 550 hp at 5500 rpm 496 that's in my car now AND I now know that I can build one cheaper!!

slimlynn1
11-22-2007, 09:18:44 AM
There is a nice 383 for sale in the swap meet section, worth a look.

http://www.nastyz28.com/forum/showthread.php?t=98625

ZS10
11-23-2007, 04:07:07 AM
^ there you go. Bill is good to deal with.

HULKZ28
11-23-2007, 08:51:05 AM
Id say they both look real good... The 383 should be stronger though if proberly built...keep us posted
Hulk

RePhil
11-23-2007, 12:01:41 PM
I ended up ordering an engine yesterday, but not one of these engines. Most of you will be disappointed to learn that I went with a much less powerful engine. :screwup:

My main reasons are...

1. This car is going to be strictly a street car.
2. The engine only costs $2000
3. I can use the carb and accessories off my current engine on this on.
4. Won't have to make as many drivetrain upgrades at this time.
5. Just simply works better with my current budget.

I bought it from D&J Machine & Performance Engines (http://www.tuffdawgengines.com/) for $2000 shipped. Darl was very helpful in answering all my questions, even on Thanksgiving Day! He also sells on Ebay and has 100% good feedback. I did a little research with past customers, talked to one, and read forum posts from others. I feel safe buying from him.

Here's the engine specs. I know it's a mild setup, but if I'm not happy with it and the budget allows it in the future, a nice cam and set of heads would really wake it up...

330HP @ 5000rpm
390ft lbs of TQ @ 3500rpm

3.484" stroke nodular iron crank
5.7" forged rods with ARP rod bolts
9 to 1 compression flat top pistons
Seasoned 4-bolt main block
Deck head gasket surface on block to ensure a good seal

New CompCams hydraulic flat tappet high performance cam
Duration Advertised: 270° Intake / 270° Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift: 224° Intake / 224° Exhaust
Valve Lift: .470'' Intake / .470'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle: 110°

76cc heads with 1.940"Int/1.500"Exh valves
New 1.250" high performance springs set up to match cam
New High temperature valve seals
New Spiral-type valve guides
New Screw-in rocker studs with guide plates
New Steel rocker arms with balls and nuts
New Hardened push rods
New Perfect Circle rings
New Double row timing set
New High volume oil pump with welded big pickup screen and steel drive shaft and steel guide
New Revolutionary 1-pc design molded rubber oil pan gasket with load limiters to prevent over-tightening and higher temperature resistance than standard cork-rubber gaskets
New Brass expansion plugs
New Edelbrock (non-egr) Dual Plane Performer aluminum intake
1 year warranty


Full description of the engine here... engine specs (http://www.tuffdawgengines.com/chev_350_330hp.htm)


So, thoughts and comments? Does $2000 seem about right for this build?

shawntmartin
11-23-2007, 01:13:00 PM
Seems like a good deal. Tell us how it works out....

RePhil
11-23-2007, 01:25:54 PM
Will do, but this is a winter long project of an engine swap, suspension rebuilt, detailing, etc. So it'll be awhile before it's all finished and running.

pdq67
11-23-2007, 02:10:47 PM
I really wished that it was up at 9.75 to almost 10 to 1 CR., b/c I figure it should put out about 360 to 365 HP easy!! W/ headers uncorked..

And still run on good pump gas.

BUT, IMHO, the way it is, it will STILL be a dandy engine for you!!

And I figure at a darn good price too!

pdq67

HULKZ28
11-23-2007, 03:36:19 PM
I bet youll like it!!
390 ftlbs in not shabby..
Hulk

RePhil
11-23-2007, 03:39:26 PM
I bet youll like it!!
390 ftlbs in not shabby..
Hulk


That's one of the reasons I went with it. That's a pretty high torque rating for what the engine is. I'm just hoping that number is somewhat accurate. :bowtie:

pdq67
11-23-2007, 06:30:54 PM
Remember that a stock, L-48 engine was 295hp and 380 t w/ no more than the little bitty -929 cam in it BUT that it was up right at 10 to 1 CR. even tho GM said 10.25!!

Sucker was powerful to say the least and after I installed the old 350hp/327, -151 cam in mine, 1200 miles from new, it became moreso!! Sucker pulled like a freight-train back then on cheap regular leaded gas.

pdq67

FreedomPenguin
11-23-2007, 06:34:04 PM
DAMMIT wish i would of known about this 2 years ago!!! I WOULD of done had 1 of these, but no i go around and spend so much $.... not knowing about TIHS deal wahh

howie
11-24-2007, 01:53:13 PM
you might want to check to warranty. alot of these warranties go from date you buy them not the day you fire it up, so if it is going to be a long term project you might want to consider the timing when you buy it.
just a thought.

RePhil
11-24-2007, 02:00:20 PM
Thanks for the tip, but I'm not worried about it. We only have about a 6 month good driving weather period here in Ohio, so it'll at least be under warranty for it's 1st season.

Magnus
06-24-2008, 05:28:39 PM
How did it turn out, have you been able to test the engine in the car yet?

Magnus

RePhil
06-24-2008, 10:34:22 PM
I'm extremely pleased with the engine! Can't beat $2000 for a 330hp 390tq engine delivered to your door. Didn't have one problem with it at all, but I've only put 260 miles on it so far. For the price, I'm very happy with what I got and the performance of the engine. I would highly recommend it to anyone looking for an inexpensive crate engine.

You can hear it idle and see it in this vid...

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/philtheskipper/1981%20Z28/81%20Z28/th_shortz28clip.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a125/philtheskipper/1981%20Z28/81%20Z28/?action=view&current=shortz28clip.flv)

Scott Hamilton
06-25-2008, 06:35:50 PM
STROKER nuff said

CamaroMan79
06-26-2008, 04:17:05 AM
Sounds good Bro.

Magnus
06-27-2008, 11:11:18 AM
Seems to be a very good engine for the money. How long was the delivery time?

Great looking car too.

Magnus

RePhil
06-27-2008, 06:45:33 PM
It only took one week to get the engine. He already had one finished when I ordered it. He said if I were to order a custom build or a package that wasn't built yet, it would take 2-3 weeks to receive it.

andymiller
06-27-2008, 08:55:01 PM
Right on man, that turned out well for you. Your car is very clean. Now go put some miles on it and give us a burnout vid

79StanZ28
11-29-2008, 07:36:00 PM
RePhil,

Were you able to rack up some miles this past summer? How did the engine do? What rear end gears do you have and how did they work with the engine?

I'm considering buying this engine in the future based on this thread. It seems reasonably priced.

Thanks.

RePhil
11-29-2008, 09:54:53 PM
I ended up selling the car before putting a lot of miles on it. I now regret selling the car. :(

I ran a 3:73 posi rear. It was a great match, unless you do a lot of highway driving.

For 2k shipped, that engine was a great deal. I would guess the car would have ran about 14 seconds in the quarter mile. When stomping on it the tires would break loose shifting into 2nd, and then chirp into 3rd. That was with a shift kit in the trans though. Really a great engine for a street car. If you're looking for a street/strip engine, I would go for one of their engines in the 400hp range for some more umph.

If I ever get another chance to buy an engine, I'll be buying from the same place. Hope I'll be able to spring for the 440hp small block they sell for 3k!

Mwilson
11-30-2008, 06:22:08 AM
It'll still be fun, a head swap later when the warranty goes out will really wake it up and get you right back where the other motors were.

79StanZ28
11-30-2008, 02:14:00 PM
Sorry to hear you sold it... I did the same thing this Fall by selling a BBC 4 speed '71 Chevelle I built up but ended up trading for a '79 Z28 and cash back to me. The Z is all original numbers matching with 114K miles, so I'm thinking of throwing the original motor on a stand and dropping in a crate motor like what you used. Sounds like it was a good deal. Thanks for the feedback.